Jetting and timing a DR177 with Vespatronic
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12345
Author Message
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 433
Location: california
Wed May 01, 2019 8:33 pm quote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
a glass or two of red, some frankly reckless advice from Ginch, ...
Enjoying the view from the cheap seats.
Remarkable build.

Side note:
Ginch - gotta say - you have a bit of an international reputation.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed May 01, 2019 9:13 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Side note:
Ginch - gotta say - you have a bit of an international reputation.
Dammit! You fuck one goat....
Hooked
2001 LML 150
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 297
Location: Melb, Aus
Wed May 01, 2019 11:01 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
charlieman22 wrote:
Side note:
Ginch - gotta say - you have a bit of an international reputation.
Dammit! You fuck one goat....
Ohh, so it's down to one goat now. The story I heard involved more like a herd..
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu May 02, 2019 3:27 am quote
In your defense, he was a good looking goat.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4681
Location: So Cal
Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 am quote
And he owned a lathe
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Fri May 03, 2019 5:06 pm quote
Shiny...

fullsizeoutput_373a.jpeg
Oh so shiny...

Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1470
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri May 03, 2019 6:07 pm quote
How much was it again?? $25 or something??
Really nice, but I now hate varnished exhausts after all the years I've dealt with them. First they go brown and then rust. I used to polish them, recreate the weld burns with a blowtorch and then re-varnish them. And repeat after a while

Only stainless from now on...
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Fri May 03, 2019 9:43 pm quote


"Aedificare, abusu, confractus, repetere."

DRT 23 tooth primary cog goes in.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1074
Location: UK (South East)
Fri May 03, 2019 10:18 pm quote
Love that the thread title states DR177, yet you have just purchased one of the finest expansion chambers available

If Carlsberg did overkill..........
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Sat May 04, 2019 10:41 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
Love that the thread title states DR177, yet you have just purchased one of the finest expansion chambers available

If Carlsberg did overkill..........
We all know the DR177 is the gateway drug. Probably time I thought up a new title.

Current spec is:

Malossi MHR177
Mazzucchelli PX200 bell crank with 60mm stroke, 110mm conrod ,Grand Sport Gudgeon pin conversion bearing and custom packer 5mm packer.
LML reed 150 cases, JB'd and ported to match MHR.
Malossi 150 PBHB kit with PHBH 30, Malossi intake, reed and bellows, plus custom adapter to LML case - intake and case both milled and matched to 200 spec.
BGM Fast Fuel tap
Banded sip Cosa 2 clutch
23/67 primary ratio
p200 gearset with T5 4th
Liztor Selector with Sip quickroll
Koso digital EGT and AFR
SIP speedo and egt
Vespatronic at 23 degrees at 2500 RPM
Custom loom with battery for gauges, and usb charger
Sip Front shock with standard spring
KYB rear shock
Crimaz front disk
Detachable mapboard with DC driving lights

Like I said, gateway drug...
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1074
Location: UK (South East)
Sat May 04, 2019 10:51 pm quote
Sorry, just couldn't resist the comment. That's a great spec. you have there. I have been considering either S&S or Pipe Design myself. Looking forward to hearing how yours performs.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Sun May 05, 2019 12:08 am quote
Yup. Ginch and jimscoot have helped a lot with it.

Ginch was encouraging me to go the extra mile and get a Pipe Design, but I have 2 (or possibly 3) more scooters to finish. Also, Jim's spec is almost identical, and he has the S&S, so I can follow along with his settings.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1279
Location: London UK
Mon May 06, 2019 12:05 am quote
Certainly a nice spec now. And you're surely hooked. I think these parts make the fastest small block. The 23/67 will dull it down a little but still a great ride.
The set up is the tricky part. For the intial set up 300F is the maximum to aim for to ensure all the shiny parts stay shiny.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon May 06, 2019 7:44 am quote
Yep. It's deffo a beast!

I ran it with the 22/67 and the Sip Road 2, and it's, umm, "sparkling" through the gears, but it's revving its ring off in fourth with the T5 36 cog 4th. (I put the 36 in when I was still planing on keeping the DR).

I put the 23 cog in the clutch to see it it would improve the short 4th without hurting performance too much. First impression is that blunts the performance just enough that having experienced the MHR on the 22/67, it's probably gotta go. The 22/67 is just sooo fun.

But - it's still on the SIP Road 2 while I wait for a sidestand to arrive in the mail.

When that happens, I'll switch in the S&S pipe, and try it with the 23/67 and the 22/67. Hopefully, the sparkle kicks back in.

If it's still not right, I'll bite the bullet, split it and switch in my spare normal 4th.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue May 07, 2019 12:39 am quote
Jim, looking at the S&S there's nothing to tighten - how did you attach it to the cylinder? Just springs?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:14 am quote
Thank god for three-day shipping from Germany... current rate - 15% of market price...

human kidney, 1 of

Clipboard01.jpg

Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:16 am quote
Just springs Craig..the header is quiet a loose fit onto the stub but it seems to eliminate the transfer of vibration.
Just like my old mx bikes really,
bit of spooge but seals quite well

EEF335D7-EA25-428B-869C-0D4C7CA5D9B8.jpeg

Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:19 am quote
This sleeve that ginch posted should have come with the pipe ??
Or am I missing something

FAC35AD2-69FB-4A8C-9102-E2D72FE7551E.jpeg

Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:29 am quote
I was experiencing quite a lot of vibration when coming on the pipe.
So I made up some polyurethane bushes to replace the hard nylon mounts.
The pipe now slightly flexís but has virtually no vibration.

7AE4CC41-0DEE-4D28-B5A0-5D2621CEB9B7.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:33 am quote
Nice one Jamie!
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue May 07, 2019 6:55 am quote
Cheers Jim,

I'm working late, cant lay my hands on the scoot and pipe at the same time. The adapter deffo came with the pipe. Am I right in assuming you use it to replace the Mallossi stub, then slide the pipe over it with the o-ring?

I take it you hi temp painted the pipe black? If so, did you strip off the varnish before hitting it with high temp, or just go straight over?
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 3:27 pm quote
Ok never thought of it that way.
But no, im using the malossi supplied stub bracket etc. And the sspipe with installed sleeve
Yes its loose, but i like it that way

The exhaust came from Sip prepainted. To be honest i dont even know what version silent or super silent version. Did you buy direct from ss? If so how long did it take for delivery, cause on their website they mention 6-8 week turnaround??
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed May 08, 2019 2:44 pm quote
Not sure if there's enough meat on this exhaust stub to machine an o-ring channel into?
If there was it would be an easy job.

If there's not then making a new one that was very slightly better fitting would not be impossible with your resources.

Third option is to make a new flange connection piece that has a slightly smaller ID.

Fourth option is coke can...

Clipboard01.jpg

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu May 09, 2019 5:35 am quote
Snuck out of work today for an hour to get a bud to put in the O2 and Egt bungs.

IMG_2753.jpg
Very hot glue gun.

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2083
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Fri May 10, 2019 6:29 am quote
Ginch wrote:
Fourth option is coke can...
I use a Red Bull can and some hi-temp sealant to seal my exhaust flanges. Works great and gives the scooter wings!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri May 10, 2019 4:06 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Fourth option is coke can...
I use a Red Bull can and some hi-temp sealant to seal my exhaust flanges. Works great and gives the scooter wings!
Yep, done it a number of times and probably will again!
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:53 pm quote
Just wondering how your travelling with kit and pipe.
I've had a play with mine recently with some great results.
My Vespower static timing is now at +/- 18 degrees/3500rpm retarding to approx +/-13 circa 7000Rpm. I've lost torque but it has given me much more overev ability and able to sit on the pipe in the powerband. It's much smoother but my temps were to low if anything, only around 100 degrees c, on the freeway.
I've corrected my jetting now and I'm now running a leaner atomiser AV266 (was 268) corrected main 128, 40 slide X2 needle, 53 pilot.
Temps are now around the 120-125 celcius.
I've managed to claw back some of my lost torque now with a leaner transition from idle pilot slide atomiser, onto main. It was quite burbly there prior.

I recently purchased the lighter 900g Malossi flywheel. I dont recommend it as you loose torque hill climbing headwinds etc.
The 1.2kg seems perfect, but I think I could benefit with with more weight..Malossi supply add on weight options to the existing 1.2kg version so may try that soon.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:51 pm quote
The pipe is a monster, it took the MHR kit to a whole new level. The power and is like a kick in the pants.
Problem is that itís too powerful for the early PX style gear set, and keeps powering out of gear, especially in 4th.
Have a Lusso style set coming, should be here on Monday for me to throw in. Currently in FNQ for a week, thinking of dropping into Modsorrockers to have a look at the Pinasco 225 9 port while Iím here.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6885
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:20 pm quote
If you buy one, just have them take the Pinasco kit off for you and short-circuit the whole process.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:36 pm quote
Never hurts to educate oneself.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1279
Location: London UK
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:13 am quote
jimscoot wrote:
Just wondering how your travelling with kit and pipe.
I've had a play with mine recently with some great results.
My Vespower static timing is now at +/- 18 degrees/3500rpm retarding to approx +/-13 circa 7000Rpm. I've lost torque but it has given me much more overev ability and able to sit on the pipe in the powerband. It's much smoother but my temps were to low if anything, only around 100 degrees c, on the freeway.
I've corrected my jetting now and I'm now running a leaner atomiser AV266 (was 268) corrected main 128, 40 slide X2 needle, 53 pilot.
Temps are now around the 120-125 celcius.
I've managed to claw back some of my lost torque now with a leaner transition from idle pilot slide atomiser, onto main. It was quite burbly there prior.

I recently purchased the lighter 900g Malossi flywheel. I dont recommend it as you loose torque hill climbing headwinds etc.
The 1.2kg seems perfect, but I think I could benefit with with more weight..Malossi supply add on weight options to the existing 1.2kg version so may try that soon.
Have you thought about a pointier needle? I think what you are seeing is that your set up has out grown the trusty old X2 needle? A needle like X11 is more like what I would expect to end up on. Will be a spluttery mess at first but once atomiser and pilot are sorted it will end up better.
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:14 pm quote
I'll look into it Jack
I'm just playing with these needles at the moment highlighted in yellow.
Trying not to over think it too much and go with MB scooters most popular hits.

Screenshot_20190621-060542.png

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1279
Location: London UK
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:36 pm quote
All these needles have a 1.8 tip. Which means they are for lower power. If you look down the list you can see they are some of the weakest needles that fit that carb. You think your scooter is low powered? This is why you need a big (268) atomiser to not overheat, the needle is too fat. Have a think about it or even better give it a try.
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:58 am quote
Thanks for your input Jack, Iíll give it a go
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1279
Location: London UK
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:31 am quote
While your ordering get yourself an AS264 atomiser.
The AV series are 4 stroke compatible, roughly translated means a bit crap for a 2 stroke.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:07 am quote
James - what gearing are you running? I need to figure out if the short 4th will be worth it, or if I should stay with the px200 standard.
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:24 pm quote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
James - what gearing are you running? I need to figure out if the short 4th will be worth it, or if I should stay with the px200 standard.
Standard 150 gearing, with 22t clutch gear and 100/90-10 rear tyre
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:31 am quote
Time for a new gearset

Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   Cool Ass scooter seat cover
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12345
[ Time: 0.5702s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0480s) ][ Debug on ]