Dr. Pulley sliders: what weight? (2016 MP3 500 Sport ABS)
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Hooked
2016 MP3 500 Sport ABS
Joined: 08 Sep 2017
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:44 am quote
Since it's cold and I can't ride I'd like to do Dr. Pulley sliders but I don't know what weight to choose. Stock rollers are 21.5g, correct?

1) What weight should I pick to keep RPM near stock for highway cruising speeds but gain some acceleration from a stop? I plan on doing a lot of highway riding this coming summer and don't want my RPM to go up from too light of sliders. 19g seems like the lightest I'd want to go. What about 20g or even 21g, would that keep my RPM down at cruising speeds yet help down low?

2) Do I need 4 new variator slides since my MP3 has low miles and the stock slides should be in good shape?

3 Can I get the variator off and on without a special variator tool? I've got an impact and a strap wrench, will that work?
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:58 am quote
the new abs asr model got 25 or 27 gr stock those are black

if you want Dr Pulley a recommand 21,22 or 23

The older 500 got 21 those are Blue

The 400 got 19 those are green
Hooked
2016 MP3 500 Sport ABS
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:40 am quote
Maksor wrote:
the new abs asr model got 25 or 27 gr stock those are black

if you want Dr Pulley a recommand 21,22 or 23

The older 500 got 21 those are Blue

The 400 got 19 those are green
Good lord, why did they go so heavy on the ABS/ASR models? What else is different in the variator and clutch?

Do you have them, and if so how much to get them to 52404 (Cedar Rapids, Iowa)?
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:56 pm quote
You can make a variator tool with a bit of plywood. There is even a drawing of how to drill the holes. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-specialty-tools

Dr. Pulley recommends 10 -15% lighter than stock.http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm

As you want to be conservative 10% then round up/down to the nearest Dr. Pulley weight and bingo.

Do not tighten the variator with a rattle gun use a proper torque wrench.

[/url]
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Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:49 am quote
im cheaper then Dirk

and yes got 15 to 23 grams in stock
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Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:51 am quote
@ Waspmike its cheaper for you to order directly from Dr Pulley www.unionmaterial.com
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:41 am quote
Yes,

Was going to import some here for Thai scooters but there are many knock off ones here. Sold J Costa here for a while but then most go faster guys simply bought larger scooters when they became available.

Xavier is looking to sell Autisa if you have a few Euros!
Hooked
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:39 am quote
waspmike wrote:
You can make a variator tool with a bit of plywood. There is even a drawing of how to drill the holes. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-specialty-tools

Dr. Pulley recommends 10 -15% lighter than stock.http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm

As you want to be conservative 10% then round up/down to the nearest Dr. Pulley weight and bingo.

Do not tighten the variator with a rattle gun use a proper torque wrench.

[/url]
From the link MP3 500 LT starts at recomended 16 gram minimum

I wonder what the difference is with the abs version that starts at 21 gram ? Isnt it the same master 500 engine ?

I have tried many values and for around town recomend around the 16 gram mark.

If you want to try for free just leave out two 21 gram weights that are opposite each other and that will give you 15.75 gram overall

Last edited by Brasseye on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:42 am quote
the German isn't in to mp3's and the new German mp3 forum does like advertisment got some warnings to :+
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2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:31 am quote
Maksor wrote:
the new abs asr model got 25 or 27 gr stock those are black

if you want Dr Pulley a recommand 21,22 or 23

The older 500 got 21 those are Blue

The 400 got 19 those are green
Yeap, they are black...
I always wondered why they went heavier.
I always found the bike to be very fast, but I never experienced the older model.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Hooked
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:19 pm quote
Can't find anything over 21g unless I buy from overseas which costs a small fortune to ship.

I ordered some 21g Dr. Pulley sliders from BuggyPartsNW and will add a little weight to them with epoxy or something to get them up to 23g.
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:40 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
I always wondered why they went heavier.
Probably to tame the bike a bit so the ASR doesn't have to work so hard!
Hooked
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:22 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
klaborde wrote:
I always wondered why they went heavier.
Probably to tame the bike a bit so the ASR doesn't have to work so hard!
They need to tame the ASR instead, it's way too sensitive! Trying to maneuver in loose gravel is almost impossible because it keeps yanking power and you can barely get moving.
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Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:49 am quote
71Brent wrote:
Can't find anything over 21g unless I buy from overseas which costs a small fortune to ship.

I ordered some 21g Dr. Pulley sliders from BuggyPartsNW and will add a little weight to them with epoxy or something to get them up to 23g.
I know I am late on the response.
I would have checked with scooterpartsco.com to see if they could get them for you, or order from easyparts.nl and get some other consumable items for the freight to offset. The USD to Euro not that bad. Shipping works well, it would be on your doorstep in 3 days if in stock.

Not sure about using the "Epoxy???" to add weight; I guess that's a possibility.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
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Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:27 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
I know I am late on the response.
I would have checked with scooterpartsco.com to see if they could get them for you, or order from easyparts.nl and get some other consumable items for the freight to offset. The USD to Euro not that bad. Shipping works well, it would be on your doorstep in 3 days if in stock.

Not sure about using the "Epoxy???" to add weight; I guess that's a possibility.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
scooterparts only has up to 19g, not heavy enough. And since I didn't need anything else no use in buying other stuff to save on shipping when I can order from right here in the U.S., and their prices for sliders and variator slides were cheap, both to my door for less than $70.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkNhqEFeWVQ

Last edited by 71Brent on Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 pm quote
71Brent wrote:
klaborde wrote:
I know I am late on the response.
I would have checked with scooterpartsco.com to see if they could get them for you, or order from easyparts.nl and get some other consumable items for the freight to offset. The USD to Euro not that bad. Shipping works well, it would be on your doorstep in 3 days if in stock.

Not sure about using the "Epoxy???" to add weight; I guess that's a possibility.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
scooterparts only has up to 19g, not heavy enough. And since I didn't need anything else no use in buying other stuff to save on shipping when I can order from right here in the U.S., and they're prices for sliders and variatior slides were cheap, both to my door for less than $70.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkNhqEFeWVQ
Interesting video...
Thanks,
Keith
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Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:04 am quote
Easyparts don't sell Dr Pulley only for the SRV850 and GP800 and those are rebranded to Piaggio

Shipping is 18.20 euro drpulleys are 41.33 euro incl SP tax free
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:50 am quote
71Brent wrote:
waspmike wrote:
klaborde wrote:
I always wondered why they went heavier.
Probably to tame the bike a bit so the ASR doesn't have to work so hard!
They need to tame the ASR instead, it's way too sensitive! Trying to maneuver in loose gravel is almost impossible because it keeps yanking power and you can barely get moving.
Isn't that why an ASR override button is provided?
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 am quote
roadster wrote:
71Brent wrote:
waspmike wrote:
klaborde wrote:
I always wondered why they went heavier.
Probably to tame the bike a bit so the ASR doesn't have to work so hard!
They need to tame the ASR instead, it's way too sensitive! Trying to maneuver in loose gravel is almost impossible because it keeps yanking power and you can barely get moving.
Isn't that why an ASR override button is provided?
Absolutely, the manual even states that the ASR must be disconnected in snow or ice .....
Hooked
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:37 am quote
My 500 has a button to turn off the traction control.

You might find 19g is a bit too heavy to get best peformance from the scooter.
With DR pulley sliders and weights your top speed will be increased as well (casing allowing !)
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:13 am quote
I steered away from changing from stock rollers because of the ABS / ASR which I don't completely understand vs a 4 wheeler; but it has saved my ass on gravel a few times. I am sure of that...

I have a lot of the OEM Black Rollers / Sliders in my Inventory from ordering other parts from easyparts.nl. I typically add consumable items to offset the freight to make the shipping to the US more reasonable when I needed painted body parts for the MP3/250 that needing replacing from them cracking over time. The two bottom painted fairings under your feet, I go through a lot of those for some reason.

AF1 / Scooterparts, have raised the amount you have to buy to get Free Shipping. Scooterpartsco continues to offer a good value with shipping and you can't go wrong with their prices as well.

I have never gone WOT...
Once, I had the bike over 95, and it became unstable.
Then I added the CounterAct Balance Beads, and that smoothed out the front end at higher speeds. I swear by the use of these, and have them even on my 15" Trailer Tires. Just Amazing...

But as we learned that the 2016's and newer had the same Oil Blow issues as the older models, I consciously Ride the 500 more conservatively.
I keep the RPM on the highways at close to 5000. This is very close to posted interstate speeds. That's plenty fast for me, and I'm never in a hurry when Riding Bikes.

I do have the DR Pulleys on the MP3/250, it needs all the help it can get.
I do Ride WOT, never a problem; yet???

Keith,
Marietta, GA
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:34 pm quote
roadster wrote:
Isn't that why an ASR override button is provided?
yes, but it's still way too sensitive IMO. I've had traction control on cars before and they're not nearly as sensitive to engage. There's been times where I've had to turn it off just to get moving to get down a path, but after I've turned it off I didn't sense any tire slippage which should have triggered the ARS to begin with. I really wish it could be desensitized at least a little.
Hooked
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:40 pm quote
Brasseye wrote:
You might find 19g is a bit too heavy to get best peformance from the scooter.
With DR pulley sliders and weights your top speed will be increased as well (casing allowing !)
19g too heavy? Since stock are 25g I ordered the heaviest I could find which were 21g, and I was worried about them being too light.

Stock acceleration isn't bad, I just want it to be a little better, but I definitely don't want my highway cruising RPM to go up since I'll be doing a lot of highway and interstate miles.
Hooked
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:54 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
I have never gone WOT...
Once, I had the bike over 95, and it became unstable.
Then I added the CounterAct Balance Beads, and that smoothed out the front end at higher speeds. I swear by the use of these, and have them even on my 15" Trailer Tires. Just Amazing...

But as we learned that the 2016's and newer had the same Oil Blow issues as the older models, I consciously Ride the 500 more conservatively.
I keep the RPM on the highways at close to 5000. This is very close to posted interstate speeds. That's plenty fast for me, and I'm never in a hurry when Riding Bikes.

I do have the DR Pulleys on the MP3/250, it needs all the help it can get.
I do Ride WOT, never a problem; yet???

Keith,
Marietta, GA
I've gone WOT numerous times and an indicated 95 mph or slightly over quite a few times. I cruise at 60-75 mph all the time, which if I remember is 5500 RPM and higher. It's never felt unstable to me at any speed. It's the most stable 'bike' I've ever ridden and almost feels like the front is on rails. I feel safer hauling ass through corners than I did on my old GSXRs.

It has almost 2500 miles on it before I parked it because of the cold weather. No oil use at all and airbox is dry as a bone. Previous owner switched it to Mobil 1 synthetic oil at a few hundred miles and also changed the lube in the final drive to Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube. I've used Mobil 1 synthetic oil in everything I've owned for the past 25 years and I'm a huge believer in it.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:08 am quote
71Brent wrote:
yes, but it's still way too sensitive IMO. I've had traction control on cars before and they're not nearly as sensitive to engage. There's been times where I've had to turn it off just to get moving to get down a path, but after I've turned it off I didn't sense any tire slippage which should have triggered the ARS to begin with. I really wish it could be desensitized at least a little.
Its only when I first rode a model with ASR that I realized why I was wearing out rear tyres so quickly. Scooter suspension ( high unsprung weight) and the small rear contact patch mean that the back wheel often loses traction even over small bumps. After all these machines accelerate a lot quicker than most cars from rest so there is a lot of torque being applied to one small wheel and its inevitable that the ASR will kick in much more often. before ASR this happened without being obvious to the rider or causing any undue risk so perhaps the detection algorithms are copied from car technology and do need to be made less sensitive.
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:24 am quote
71Brent wrote:
klaborde wrote:
I have never gone WOT...
Once, I had the bike over 95, and it became unstable.
Then I added the CounterAct Balance Beads, and that smoothed out the front end at higher speeds. I swear by the use of these, and have them even on my 15" Trailer Tires. Just Amazing...

But as we learned that the 2016's and newer had the same Oil Blow issues as the older models, I consciously Ride the 500 more conservatively.
I keep the RPM on the highways at close to 5000. This is very close to posted interstate speeds. That's plenty fast for me, and I'm never in a hurry when Riding Bikes.

I do have the DR Pulleys on the MP3/250, it needs all the help it can get.
I do Ride WOT, never a problem; yet???

Keith,
Marietta, GA
I've gone WOT numerous times and an indicated 95 mph or slightly over quite a few times. I cruise at 60-75 mph all the time, which if I remember is 5500 RPM and higher. It's never felt unstable to me at any speed. It's the most stable 'bike' I've ever ridden and almost feels like the front is on rails. I feel safer hauling ass through corners than I did on my old GSXRs.

It has almost 2500 miles on it before I parked it because of the cold weather. No oil use at all and airbox is dry as a bone. Previous owner switched it to Mobil 1 synthetic oil at a few hundred miles and also changed the lube in the final drive to Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube. I've used Mobil 1 synthetic oil in everything I've owned for the past 25 years and I'm a huge believer in it.
Could be my Balance from Piaggio, but the CounterAct Beads solved the problems after trying again. This was on Interstate 20 relatively flat from Atlanta to the Alabama line. Just won't risk it now with the problems with Oil Blow / Piston potential.

Keith
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:25 pm quote
71Brent wrote:
Brasseye wrote:
You might find 19g is a bit too heavy to get best peformance from the scooter.
With DR pulley sliders and weights your top speed will be increased as well (casing allowing !)
19g too heavy? Since stock are 25g I ordered the heaviest I could find which were 21g, and I was worried about them being too light.
Personally, I ride with 19gr. Pulley since 7000 kms and I am fully satisfied ...
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:48 pm quote
frcx94 wrote:
Personally, I ride with 19gr. Pulley since 7000 kms and I am fully satisfied ...
I would have thought for sure that would be way too light. Yours must really launch from a dead stop! My 21g sliders showed up in the mail today, I can't wait for it to warm up so I can get them installed and go for a ride to try them out.

Last edited by 71Brent on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 pm quote
Brent,

If you want to go a bit lighter you can drill them out if you have a vice and a belt or rag to wrap them in.

Weigh them? Put in an envelope and take them to the post office
Hooked
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:32 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
Brent,

If you want to go a bit lighter you can drill them out if you have a vice and a belt or rag to wrap them in.

Weigh them? Put in an envelope and take them to the post office
I'm going to try them as-is first and go from there. My dad has a small precision digital scale so I can use it anytime I need. I'm betting that going from 25g rollers to 21g sliders is going to be a big improvement. I just can't imagine the need to go any lighter than 21g for what I want.
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:14 pm quote
^ For what you desired in your OP I also think going to "stock" 21 will make a difference. If you nurse the throttle as one should to avoid wheel spin, the ASR will not kick in.
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Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 am quote
21 grams vs 25grams
riding with stock rollers (black, 25 grams), my piaggio mp3 500 abs/asr 2016 produced a horrible vibration in the range of 25-35 km/hr. It started off fine but as soon as it reached that 25-35 km/hr zone, the back end of the bike manifested a horrible vibration.... once the speed was 40km/hr or more everything was smooth again.

i changed the rollers to the older model's stock rollers (blue, 21 grams). The result has been almost magical, initial take off is equally smooth as previously and the 25-35km/hr vibration is gone. I did not sense the bike becoming more aggressive, it is just smooth, as it should have been all along.

If you are experiencing vibration issues in low speeds with an mp3 500cc abs/asr version, you might want to try replacing it's stock rollers with the rollers that came with the previous (non abs) 500cc model.

Why did Piaggio opt for 25 gram rollers for the abs/asr version of the 500cc mp3 is obvious;y something i do not know. However, my personal guess is that it has nothing to do with the asr itself. I would rather guess they tried to keep rpms as low as possible to make the bike more eco friendly and keep consumption as low as possible.... but they may have introduced a speed zone where the transmission can not follow the engine and vibration manifests.

Truth is that regardless of what the correct explanation is ( and i sure am no mech) , going from 25 to 21 grams solved a year long very annoying issue for me...
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Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:03 pm quote
Whatever the weight chosen Pulley cam rollers are much better quality than the original ones...
Hooked
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Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:59 am quote
Yes I was experiencing very bad vibration on pull away. This was due to the clutch material and the gearing.
Changing the clutch for a malossi and fitting 16gram weights (after much experimentation) makes the bike an absolute dream to ride about town and on the motorway.
Good smooth, consistent pullaway and lower rpm while crusing a win win situation. Mpg has stayed at 54 mpg mixed riding.
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Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm quote
What speed /RPM are you riding on the motorway.? The OP wants to reduce his rpm at cruising speed.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:18 am quote
waspmike wrote:
What speed /RPM are you riding on the motorway.? The OP wants to reduce his rpm at cruising speed.
Changing the Dr. P. weight won't make any difference to cruising speed but the special shape of the Dr.Ps does. This is because they force the pulley halves closer together but it only works if there is some unused gap between the halves so some models won't see this effect. It sometimes causes clearance issues between the belt and the outer cases leading to scuffing of the belt and corresponding grooving of the cases. Some performance oriented riders consider the lower rpm at high speed to be a disadvantage and add an extra washer which prevents this phenomenon (see "Fuzzy washer" posts). Admittedly this is only from my experience on 250 and 400 Piaggios where the higher rpm effect of the lighter Dr.Ps was finished by about 60 to 70 mph at full throttle, others may be different.
Hooked
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:45 am quote
At 70mph my bike is doing 6k rpm.
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:30 am quote
roadster wrote:
waspmike wrote:
What speed /RPM are you riding on the motorway.? The OP wants to reduce his rpm at cruising speed.
Changing the Dr. P. weight won't make any difference to cruising speed but the special shape of the Dr.Ps does. This is because they force the pulley halves closer together but it only works if there is some unused gap between the halves so some models won't see this effect. It sometimes causes clearance issues between the belt and the outer cases leading to scuffing of the belt and corresponding grooving of the cases. Some performance oriented riders consider the lower rpm at high speed to be a disadvantage and add an extra washer which prevents this phenomenon (see "Fuzzy washer" posts). Admittedly this is only from my experience on 250 and 400 Piaggios where the higher rpm effect of the lighter Dr.Ps was finished by about 60 to 70 mph at full throttle, others may be different.
Generally the "fuzzy washer " is added to allow the belt to get lower in the driven pulley so the starting gear is lower. Yes that may mean the top speed is less but that is not the primary function.
Hooked
2016 MP3 500 Sport ABS
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Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:21 am quote
waspmike wrote:
You can make a variator tool with a bit of plywood. There is even a drawing of how to drill the holes. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-specialty-tools

Dr. Pulley recommends 10 -15% lighter than stock.http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm

As you want to be conservative 10% then round up/down to the nearest Dr. Pulley weight and bingo.

Do not tighten the variator with a rattle gun use a proper torque wrench.

[/url]
Well, I made my own just like in the pics and it cracked part of one of the fins off Even used 8 bolts to try to minimize any stress too.

Where the hell do I find the outer half of a variator now?

variator002.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:44 pm quote
71Brent wrote:
waspmike wrote:
You can make a variator tool with a bit of plywood. There is even a drawing of how to drill the holes. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-specialty-tools

Dr. Pulley recommends 10 -15% lighter than stock.http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm

As you want to be conservative 10% then round up/down to the nearest Dr. Pulley weight and bingo.

Do not tighten the variator with a rattle gun use a proper torque wrench.

[/url]
Well, I made my own just like in the pics and it cracked part of one of the fins off Even used 8 bolts to try to minimize any stress too.

Where the hell do I find the outer half of a variator now?
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