F*ck the guy who decided on the spark plug location
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Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:51 pm quote
changing spark plug on a Fly 150.

Step 1: use tool to remove old spark plug.
Step 2: put new spark plug in, using same tool.
Step 3: fiddle with trying to get the right angle on the hole for the spark plug, which you cannot see.
Step 4: Drop spark plug.
Step 5: Curse every Italian ever born because the spark plug rolled to the back of the secondary air intake.
Step 6: Remove side panel.
Step 7: Remove cargo box in order to remove side fairing.
Step 7: disassemble intake.
Step 8: retrieve the f*cking spark plug.
Step 9: Light your garage on fire because f*ck everything
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2014 Commuter BV350(43,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(10,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(29,000)
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Posts: 2332
Location: Orange Park Florida
Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:55 pm quote
Re: F*ck the guy who decided on the spark plug location
Blipvert wrote:
changing spark plug on a Fly 150.

Step 1: use tool to remove old spark plug.
Step 2: put new spark plug in, using same tool.
Step 3: fiddle with trying to get the right angle on the hole for the spark plug, which you cannot see.
Step 4: Drop spark plug.
Step 5: Curse every Italian ever born because the spark plug rolled to the back of the secondary air intake.
Step 6: Remove side panel.
Step 7: Remove cargo box in order to remove side fairing.
Step 7: disassemble intake.
Step 8: retrieve the f*cking spark plug.
Step 9: Light your garage on fire because f*ck everything
Step 10: buy the spark plug socket that has the rubber plug holder in it.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:58 pm quote
Re: F*ck the guy who decided on the spark plug location
breaknwind wrote:
Blipvert wrote:
changing spark plug on a Fly 150.

Step 1: use tool to remove old spark plug.
Step 2: put new spark plug in, using same tool.
Step 3: fiddle with trying to get the right angle on the hole for the spark plug, which you cannot see.
Step 4: Drop spark plug.
Step 5: Curse every Italian ever born because the spark plug rolled to the back of the secondary air intake.
Step 6: Remove side panel.
Step 7: Remove cargo box in order to remove side fairing.
Step 7: disassemble intake.
Step 8: retrieve the f*cking spark plug.
Step 9: Light your garage on fire because f*ck everything
Step 10: buy the spark plug socket that has the rubber plug holder in it.
The Piaggio tool does have the holder. I literally dropped the entire holder and plug into the cavernous void next to the intake, where it shall not be seen again until I disassemble everything.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
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Posts: 7944
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:20 pm quote
A piece of fuel hose on the end of the spark plug to get it started works too sometimes.
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2006 GT200
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Location: Moscow, Idaho
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:38 pm quote
Wait til you meet his cousin, Luigi, who was in charge of the coil.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:49 pm quote
I am entirely certain they hung a single spark plug from a wire and built an entire f*cking scooter around it.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
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Posts: 6274
Location: Downtown Toronto
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:54 pm quote
Blipvert wrote:
I am entirely certain they hung a single spark plug from a wire and built an entire f*cking scooter around it.
Before or after the Grappa on a Friday afternoon?
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Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2
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Posts: 2055
Location: St. Pete, Fla
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:02 pm quote
Re: F*ck the guy who decided on the spark plug location
Blipvert wrote:
changing spark plug on a Fly 150.

Step 1: use tool to remove old spark plug.
Step 2: put new spark plug in, using same tool.
Step 3: fiddle with trying to get the right angle on the hole for the spark plug, which you cannot see.
Step 4: Drop spark plug.
Step 5: Curse every Italian ever born because the spark plug rolled to the back of the secondary air intake.
Step 6: Remove side panel.
Step 7: Remove cargo box in order to remove side fairing.
Step 7: disassemble intake.
Step 8: retrieve the f*cking spark plug.
Step 9: Light your garage on fire because f*ck everything
Yes, you have got it down pat. Then as it burns drink some good Grappa, not that cheap imported stuff. Has to be from the scene of the crime.

Honestly though, I had the same problem, but once I bought a proper sparkplug socket and figured out the seemingly weird angle(to me standing on top) my Grappa drinking was cut in half.

But, I feel your frustration as it is very very valid.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
946
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Posts: 5895
Location: Acworth, GA
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:26 pm quote
Blipvert wrote:
I am entirely certain they hung a single spark plug from a wire and built an entire f*cking scooter around it.
Ferrari definitely used that method on some of their 70s engines, beginning with the starter motor, and assembling everything else around it. I feel your pain...
Hooked
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:03 pm quote
Neodymium magnet taped to an aluminum rod.

Italy: 0, Me: 1

stick.jpeg

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Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
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Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:06 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
A piece of fuel hose on the end of the spark plug to get it started works too sometimes.
exactly, and you can't cross thread it when just spinning the fuel line as you can't put enough torque on it.
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'15 Blue GTS300 Super, '18 White GTS300 Super
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Posts: 2631
Location: Sydney, Australia
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:09 pm quote
Move the spark plug and then you have to move the valves, and then move the input and output manifolds, and you might end up with the exhaust manifold on the side so that you can get at those bloody nuts that hold it onto the cylinder!
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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
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Posts: 3131
Location: Bangkok
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:45 pm quote
Which car was it that you couldn't change the spark plugs in one cylinder banks without loosening the engine mounts and jacking the engine away from the fender?
Hooked
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Location: California, SF
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:59 pm quote
It's called European socialist job security.
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BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:59 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
Which car was it that you couldn't change the spark plugs in one cylinder banks without loosening the engine mounts and jacking the engine away from the fender?
If I recall correctly, that was the successor to the Chevy Vega, whatever it was called. My dad had a Vega, that was bad enough!

On changing a tail light on his 60's Lincoln, my friend used to say "remove the front bumper, remove the radiator,..."
Molto Verboso
2011 GTS300 Super Duper - 2014 Honda CTX700ND
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Posts: 1491
Location: The New World
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:50 pm quote
I think they also line the engine bay with razor blades. I can't do one thing in there without cutting up the back side of my hands.
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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3131
Location: Bangkok
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:18 pm quote
Re: F*ck the guy who decided on the spark plug location
Blipvert wrote:
changing spark plug on a Fly 150.

Step 1: use tool to remove old spark plug.
Step 2: put new spark plug in, using same tool.
Step 3: fiddle with trying to get the right angle on the hole for the spark plug, which you cannot see.
Step 4: Drop spark plug.
Step 5: Curse every Italian ever born because the spark plug rolled to the back of the secondary air intake.
Step 6: Remove side panel.
Step 7: Remove cargo box in order to remove side fairing.
Step 7: disassemble intake.
Step 8: retrieve the f*cking spark plug.
Step 9: Light your garage on fire because f*ck everything
What happens if step 1 is : Remove shock absorber bolt and allow engine to drop down?
Hooked
2005 et4
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Posts: 436
Location: oshawa ontario canada
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:28 pm quote
I think that was the V8 version of the Monza.
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GTS250
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Posts: 3552
Location: Tempe, AZ
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:30 pm quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
Which car was it that you couldn't change the spark plugs in one cylinder banks without loosening the engine mounts and jacking the engine away from the fender?
If I recall correctly, that was the successor to the Chevy Vega, whatever it was called. My dad had a Vega, that was bad enough!

On changing a tail light on his 60's Lincoln, my friend used to say "remove the front bumper, remove the radiator,..."
That was the V8 Monza, The Vega's sportier cousin, and a Ford or two (and probably a Dodge or two too).
Hooked
Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 116
Location: California, SF
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:35 pm quote
1. Eat spinach like Popeye.
2. Lift scoot up and turn to side and then upside down and shake.
3. Make plug fall out same way it came in.
4. Show vespa girl what you did.
5. Then go to your step number 9


These scoots are finicky. But nice.
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2016 Vespa GTS 300
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Posts: 25
Location: Canton, OH
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:16 pm quote
zombies-nyc wrote:
I think they also line the engine bay with razor blades. I can't do one thing in there without cutting up the back side of my hands.
I'm a rare breed. 50% Italian but 6'6" 230 lbs and have first baseman glove's for hands and water skis as feet. if I even look under the pet carrier I get cuts on my hands. In situations like this I think back to Grandpa. He'd say, "I hope the guy that invented this drops dead in his kitchen..." a few more frustrating minutes "... LIKE RIGHT NOW!"
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2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 579
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:45 pm quote
Italians believe they are lovers, not mechanics.

Ever tried taking off the starter motor on a '70s Alfa Romeo...?
The top bolt can only be reached from behind the gearbox
using (in order) plug socket, short extension, universal joint, long extension and ratchet spanner.
Replacing is a similar nightmare using a piece of hose and then the long unmanageable floppy contraption above.

My buddy has a '72 Porsche 911E. When it goes to the shop, they simply remove the engine and mount it on a jig before changing spark plugs etc.
That's the easiest way of working on the air-cooled VW Beetles too. Disconnect the wires, disconnect the fuel line and plug with a no.2 Phillips screwdriver. Undo four bolts and rock it off the gearbox on a trolley jack. 10 minutes max.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:07 pm quote
30% of my problems putting it back in was approach angle. I walked over to the spare Leader engine, put the plug in, cursed a bit when I saw I was coming at it completely wrong, and got it in with the fuel hose trick WEB-TECH posted.

For what it's worth I'm testing out a NGK (4948) CR8EIB-10 Iridium IX Spark Plug. I'm sure it'll allow me to reach 140mph and make my exhaust smell like bunny farts, but I'll let you know if it has any placebo effect.

Thanks again WEB-TECH!!!!!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6164
Location: New Zealand
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:11 pm quote
Spark plugs and exhausts, if you don't get it the first or second go then its time for a beer. Will be easy the next time you try it.
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Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
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Posts: 2160
Location: Finland
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:53 pm quote
Funny, after Vespa, I still feel like whistling every time I do anything with my old fashioned, "every maintenance point visible" motorcycle. There's some beauty in good engineering too.

I never got to the second base as I had the Vespa only two summers....throttle and brake cables must be interesting.

The only maintenance item I found well placed was the battery. OK, the slot was a bit tight for my bulky fingers, but the location was superb.
Molto Verboso
2011 300GTV
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
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Location: Agate Fossil Beds, Nebraska
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:21 am quote
zombies-nyc wrote:
I think they also line the engine bay with razor blades. I can't do one thing in there without cutting up the back side of my hands.
Testify Brother!
We share your view.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:48 am quote
waspmike wrote:
Which car was it that you couldn't change the spark plugs in one cylinder banks without loosening the engine mounts and jacking the engine away from the fender?
Lots of engines you have to do stuff like that.
How about having to remove intake manifold to replace spark plugs.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:16 am quote
RRider wrote:
The only maintenance item I found well placed was the battery. OK, the slot was a bit tight for my bulky fingers, but the location was superb.
When the batteries are located in a well where I can't get a grip to pull them out, I tie a loop of ribbon around them. That "handle" makes it easier to lift the battery out next time.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:30 am quote
"They didn't make it with the mechanic in mind," was something I once heard about a car I had.
It seems that as cars and bikes have gotten more reliable and complex, and engineers have pushed more and more out of less and less, there hasn't been the sense among manufacturers that making it easy to service is priority numero uno.
If you have to jack up the engine every 3K miles to change the spark plugs, that's one thing, if you have to do it every 100k miles, or never, for many owners, that's something the designers can live with. The only time any of this really becomes an issue is when the vehicle is not as reliable as they hoped or a component is defective and fails prematurely.
Often there is a special tool that the manufacturer only makes available to the dealer, so this impossible task takes them a whole lot less time than your private mechanis needs.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:00 am quote
Motovista wrote:
"They didn't make it with the mechanic in mind," was something I once heard about a car I had.
It seems that as cars and bikes have gotten more reliable and complex, and engineers have pushed more and more out of less and less, there hasn't been the sense among manufacturers that making it easy to service is priority numero uno.
If you have to jack up the engine every 3K miles to change the spark plugs, that's one thing, if you have to do it every 100k miles, or never, for many owners, that's something the designers can live with. The only time any of this really becomes an issue is when the vehicle is not as reliable as they hoped or a component is defective and fails prematurely.
Often there is a special tool that the manufacturer only makes available to the dealer, so this impossible task takes them a whole lot less time than your private mechanic needs.
Any special tool the manufacturer makes for the dealer can be bought by a customer or shop too.
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:58 am quote
I have a bottle of Grappa that i bought in Uruguay. I hear ya. No better on the LX. In the WORST possible place you can put it.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:03 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Any special tool the manufacturer makes for the dealer can be bought by a customer or shop too.
The catch is to know there is such a thing as that special tool.

A spark plug insertion tool part number 123-33564-005A for instance, which to the layman looks much like a piece of fuel hose, eh?

Thanks for all the knowledge found on this forum!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 am quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
Any special tool the manufacturer makes for the dealer can be bought by a customer or shop too.
The catch is to know there is such a thing as that special tool.

A spark plug insertion tool part number 123-33564-005A for instance, which to the layman looks much like a piece of fuel hose, eh?

Thanks for all the knowledge found on this forum!
That's why I use factory manuals, they usually have the part number listed if a tool is made
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:32 am quote
Now that my knuckles are healing, how important is the plastic cover that goes over the spark plug area? I didn't bother putting it back as it looked largely cosmetic.
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:35 am quote
znomit wrote:
Spark plugs and exhausts, if you don't get it the first or second go then its time for a beer. Will be easy the next time you try it.
I suggest buying a 6 pack for insurance.

Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Vespa GTS Super
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:48 am quote
Id have a go at the grappa, all that other stuff I leave to the pros 🤪
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:17 am quote
Just took it for a 20 mile test in 30 degree weather. I think my thumbs fell off mile 25 (yes, I have gloves, it's windy out). I'm still fighting a bit of a livable idle issue.... strong idle at start, nearly dies when I can tell the auto-choke is disengaging, then gets back up to wickedly strong (3mph unbraked) idle when fully warmed up.

If I adjust idle to where it's right when warmed up, then I have that post-choke pre-warmed period of having to manually keep idle up.

I'm guessing I got shmutz somewhere in the carb. Evap system's gone/capped so I don't think there's a vac leak. But I'll check again when the hypothermia subsides.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:18 am quote
Blipvert wrote:
Just took it for a 20 mile test in 30 degree weather. I think my thumbs fell off mile 25 (yes, I have gloves, it's windy out). I'm still fighting a bit of a livable idle issue.... strong idle at start, nearly dies when I can tell the auto-choke is disengaging, then gets back up to wickedly strong (3mph unbraked) idle when fully warmed up.

If I adjust idle to where it's right when warmed up, then I have that post-choke pre-warmed period of having to manually keep idle up.

I'm guessing I got shmutz somewhere in the carb. Evap system's gone/capped so I don't think there's a vac leak. But I'll check again when the hypothermia subsides.
I mean, weather could be a factor too. Who rides these when it's sub-freezing?
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2010 Vespa 300 Super
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:56 pm quote
Sorry to hear about the troubles. But it is very funny and well described frustration. I laugh cuz of how you have managed to describe the steps involved.
I have 300 GTS and the spark plug change isn't easy but at the same time it is probably less frustrating than doing it on your Vespa.
I wonder if engineers make certain design decisions but then are thwarted by the management team that thinks of the many other ways to screw a light bulb in.
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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
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Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:23 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
waspmike wrote:
Which car was it that you couldn't change the spark plugs in one cylinder banks without loosening the engine mounts and jacking the engine away from the fender?
Lots of engines you have to do stuff like that.
How about having to remove intake manifold to replace spark plugs.
Which is the main reason for long life Iridium plugs
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