One small frame for man...
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Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
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Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:08 pm quote
autojack wrote:
Thinking of how many hands the chassis went through to get to Ginchy, I wish we had all engraved our initials in it along the way
Good point. Can't do that now but...

Ginchy, ol' buddy, maybe a discreet scrawl somewhere out of sight honoring Uncle Jeb at SoundSpeed Scooters, Uncle Falcon, Uncle V oodoo , Uncle Oopsclunkthud, Uncle Autojack and I think one or two more here helped w/ parts like Uncle Doc Morgan or maybe transporting between Oops and Autojack?
Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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Location: Melbourne
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:28 pm quote
I just think it's super-cool that a bunch of us played some small parts in bringing this sweet project to life. Personally I'm really glad I'll get to see it in the flesh when it's done!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:16 pm quote
Hopefully I have thanked people along the way individually - I've certainly tried to... perhaps the group thanks should come at the end? Not sure who Uncle Jeb is though?
autojack wrote:
I just think it's super-cool that a bunch of us played some small parts in bringing this sweet project to life. Personally I'm really glad I'll get to see it in the flesh when it's done!
I think it's awesome, and I tell the story of the project whenever I can. Always seems to impress!
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7855
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:51 pm quote
No worries, we are getting our payback ten times over watching you struggle and usually win. Remember this?
Back on page one the Falcon wrote:
Amazing its going to get a new life. I got it from Jeb at Soundspeed scooters that closed here in Seattle along time ago. He was going to make a track scoot with it I believe.
....
So I guess Uncle Jeb was an unknowing contributor. But still, he practically gave away this & a huge pile of other random Vespa parts cheep cheep enough for Falcon to pass through a deal good enough to work somehow. But I dare say your original 'investment' looks pretty tiny by now.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:45 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
But I dare say your original 'investment' looks pretty tiny by now.
The original price gets forgotten, while the credit debt seems to go on forever!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:12 pm quote
Shows how long it's been since i did something when the thread is on page 7 of the index!



I call this "Satellite of Love"




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Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:55 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Shows how long it's been since i did something when the thread is on page 7 of the index!



I call this "Satellite of Love"


Ginch, about the clearance bulge in the front fender...is that pretty much what everyone is doing nowadays to fit an aftermarket shock and a disc brake? Did you fab up the bulge, or is there a company who sells the fenders with the bulge?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:08 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Shows how long it's been since i did something when the thread is on page 7 of the index!



I call this "Satellite of Love"


Ginch, about the clearance bulge in the front fender...is that pretty much what everyone is doing nowadays to fit an aftermarket shock and a disc brake? Did you fab up the bulge, or is there a company who sells the fenders with the bulge?
I made it like that. I'm using a SIP conversion PK fork (lowered & welded) and a YSS 190mm (I think) shock, with a lowering plate on top. I tried a few things to avoid a bump, including moving the top mounts inwards like I did on the Super. But nothing seemed to help avoid some sort of contact here so I bit the bullet and did it like that.
More recently I see that the people who haven't bulged seem to be using a Malossi shock (or other that I'm not sure of the brand). They seem to have a shorter spring and it finishes at the top a lot thinner. But it'll be some time before I can afford something like that!

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
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Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:42 pm quote
almost there Brother M, its gonna be a awesome smallie

more pics and cheer
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:22 pm quote
military
I do like the color, almost looks like the scoot has joined the Army. Besides that nonstock bulgy fender, it appears that someone has considerably enlarged the intake manifold hole thru the frame .
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:03 am quote
Re: military
V oodoo wrote:
I do like the color, almost looks like the scoot has joined the Army. Besides that nonstock bulgy fender, it appears that someone has considerably enlarged the intake manifold hole thru the frame .
Maybe a touch? Actually the part of the manifold where the rubber connector goes was perfectly centred in the existing hole. It was just the 'elbow' of the manifold that hit the body. I'm imagining using this type of thing if I can find something suitable.

bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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Location: So Cal
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:01 am quote
Looks great Ginch. Mmmm love the smell of fresh paint.

How about usung a shift boot?

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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
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Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:33 pm quote
what color is this thing gonna be?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:43 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Looks great Ginch. Mmmm love the smell of fresh paint.

How about usung a shift boot?
I love the smell of acrylic paint. The 2-pack, not so much! That's why I'm painting under a breezy carport.

The shift boot idea is a good one! Much more likely to be around the right size, not sure how hot it'll get there though.
sdjohn wrote:
what color is this thing gonna be?
It's a secret.
Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:50 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
what color is this thing gonna be?
It's a secret.
Stars and stripes/southern cross theme, in honor of it's American provenance and Australian rebirth.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:53 pm quote
autojack wrote:
Ginch wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
what color is this thing gonna be?
It's a secret.
Stars and stripes/southern cross theme, in honor of it's American provenance and Australian rebirth.
You promised not to tell!!! Now everyone will be doing it!
Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Melbourne
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:00 pm quote
autojack wrote:
Ginch wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
what color is this thing gonna be?
It's a secret.
Stars and stripes/southern cross theme, in honor of it's American provenance and Australian rebirth.
Also Ned Kelly on one cowl, and an eagle shedding a single tear on the other. And a "These colors don't run" mud flap.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:39 pm quote
autojack wrote:
autojack wrote:
Ginch wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
what color is this thing gonna be?
It's a secret.
Stars and stripes/southern cross theme, in honor of it's American provenance and Australian rebirth.
Also Ned Kelly on one cowl, and an eagle shedding a single tear on the other. And a "These colors don't run" mud flap.
You've been reading my diary again...
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7855
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:43 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Looks great Ginch. Mmmm love the smell of fresh paint.

How about usung a shift boot?
Army..., you fooled me Ginch, I guess that's just pretty primer. Still, I like it and say you should just clearcoat it but you obviously have other magical ideas. So, looks like you'll keep us waiting for the Grande Finale to find out.

Re your intake manifold boot: Maybe you can keep it simple and keep it stock plus cheap. Use the original boot w/ an oversize 'washer' on the carb side to keep it in place. The oversize washer should have a 60mm hole to accept the boot and overlap the hole you have - it should slide around and self locate. The boot has enough rubber flex preload to keep it all tight to the partition. The ID of the stock boot fits over that wonky sleeve and is generous to clamp to your manifold w/ an internal lip at the end. I did something like this on my VB1 w/ a PHBL mounted on a long manifold under the gas tank and it seems to seal well and allow motor movement.

I forget EXACTLY how I did it, I think I just had to make a plate w/ a 60mm hole & bolt it in as the stock hole on a VB1 is bigger( which I suppose you could do), but here's a couple of pics:




Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:42 pm quote
The primer is certainly the shiniest I've ever seen... lots of sanding and another coat and more sanding before I'm done. A mate's neighbour is going to do the top coat, he's a 3rd year apprentice and is able to get access to the booth on the weekend. Which is nice.

Thanks for the pics, I'll need to fit the motor and play around to see what's possible.
Ossessionato
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Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:20 pm quote
Re: military
Ginch wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
I do like the color, almost looks like the scoot has joined the Army. Besides that nonstock bulgy fender, it appears that someone has considerably enlarged the intake manifold hole thru the frame .
Maybe a touch? Actually the part of the manifold where the rubber connector goes was perfectly centred in the existing hole. It was just the 'elbow' of the manifold that hit the body. I'm imagining using this type of thing if I can find something suitable.

That’s basically a Dektite use for roof penetrations in Plumbing (For cables or 25mm pressure pipe etc.)

06432E22-6265-4761-82C5-C7B1AD1E90FD.png

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:43 am quote
Today I finally started to put my smallframe together. After much agonising and a steady stream of suggestion from Craig, it'll be registered with a drum brake front end and original pipe.

After that, it'll be torn down and be painted, disc'd, and piped... under our rules for what we call 'club' registration, it's not supposed to have modifications. So that's the bit I'm going to risk. Been picked up on the green machine for a routine reg check and they didn't look at anything like that so fingers crossed it won't be an issue.

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Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7855
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:40 am quote
WoW, I'd forgotten how nicely the frame etc turned out!

From this to that. I think you had just removed that crude reinforcing bar that was welded every couple inches all around the leggy?




I like the way you're not painting the fork. Nice nod to its dubious lineage!
Calm down, J/K!
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
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Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 am quote
I can't believe they have rules down there for making mods once its been registered. This is going to be an amazing Scoot.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1732
Location: california
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:20 am quote
Covid interuptus:

Shame the lockdown has interfered with the dueling smallies plan you and Craig had - but like the musicians are doing it now - everyone just records in their own studio.

How often to you guys see smallies down there at events? Gotta be rare. Do you have some crazy curvy expansion pipe for it as well?

Re registration - would have to do something like what you are doing if I were to buy - say an old Allstate from the 50's - that I was going to do a resto-mod on.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:24 pm quote
Thanks guys!

Terry as you saw the "reinforcing" was probably 3mm, and kind of looped. So very little actual reinforcement action was happening there at all.
The fork... the other forks are down with Craig, so I can't completely assemble yet.

Lynnb, if it's just regular registration ($600-800/year) it's not a big deal. Club reg allows you to ride 90 days a year (with log book) for $145 and the rules are slightly tighter.
Quote:
Covid interuptus:
CM we do have a cunning plan...

Very rarely. I've seen maybe 4 at events over the last 10 years I guess? Sharon from Tasmania has an SS90 which I guess I will see next year now.
Molto Verboso
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Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:29 pm quote
Quote:
Sharon from Tasmania
My next band name
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:35 pm quote
A little bit of headset faffing about trying to get the cables run perfectly and of course pulling the wiring through a second time because it was behind when it should have been if front. Or vice versa. It doesn't help that I've fitted a couple of rivnuts in the spine so I can attach stuff later on... the cables have to be on the right side of these otherwise it gets all tangled.

Yesterday was a shocker (see what I did there?). Whodatschrome put me on to the SIP replacement springs for their line of shocks, which he'd measured and reckoned they were very close to the same diameter. Thanks again WDC!

The YSS shocks are in my fiscal happy zone but very hard, even on a largeframe. So bought a couple of the M springs - only 20 euro each - and fitted them. The front was just a straight swap but the rear was way shorter and needed something made to get it to fit. Fortunately I never throw anything away or pass a pile of scrap without raiding it, so I had some bits in my stash to use. Think it turned out alright.

The pictures don't really show but the coil thickness is significantly thicker on the YSS. The rear with YSS spring hardly moved at all when bouncing on the rear of the scooter.

YSS shock spring swap 1.jpg

YSS shock spring swap 2.jpg

YSS shock spring swap 3.jpg

YSS shock spring swap 4.jpg

YSS shock spring swap 5.jpg

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1732
Location: california
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:43 pm quote
You must have rented that specialty tool spring clamp from the auto parts store.
Impressive!
Love a good fix like this.
If you get a chance - would you mind putting a caliper to the two springs - old vs new - and let me know the diameter?

I am often pursuing aliexpress for shocks for various projects - and they rate their stiffness in lbs - and give correlating spring thickness.
Would be interesting to be able to x reference a bit from your experience as well.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:55 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
You must have rented that specialty tool spring clamp from the auto parts store.
Impressive!
Love a good fix like this.
If you get a chance - would you mind putting a caliper to the two springs - old vs new - and let me know the diameter?

I am often pursuing aliexpress for shocks for various projects - and they rate their stiffness in lbs - and give correlating spring thickness.
Would be interesting to be able to x reference a bit from your experience as well.
I was actually going to do that anyway, but had to rush off to work. Look in later on.
But even if two springs have 4mm coils, does that make them the same stiffness?
Been put off Aliexpress, got a message last month saying something had been delivered at 1.40pm, 20 minutes earlier. Had a good look around in all the usual spots stuff is normally left and wasn't there. So lodged a complaint. Couple of days later they refunded me, in the meantime I waited like two months. I have a speedo that's been in the country almost 4 weeks now, close to 2 1/2 months since ordering. Making me nervous.

I went through a number of zip ties before realising they were not really up to the task. The straps were much easier.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1732
Location: california
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:23 pm quote
Quote:
The straps were much easier.
Ha! Having (edit) tried to solve this myself - was struck by the ingenuity of the straps. Good idea!

My suspicion is - width dictates stiffness - at least to a large extent - but I'd be interested to see what you get when you measure.
I think most of the shocks for our bikes come out of China - with some high end ones out of Taiwan. Most likely there are a set of spring suppliers that make for everyone
(I'm guessing).

Does the Craig/ Ginch smallie challenge have a name yet?
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:33 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Yesterday was a shocker (see what I did there?). Whodatschrome put me on to the SIP replacement springs for their line of shocks, which he'd measured and reckoned they were very close to the same diameter. Thanks again WDC!

Cheers!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 am quote
I have two front YSS and two rear. Spring coil thickness was:

Front - 6.95
6.05

Rear - 7.62
7.35

SIP springs

Front - 5.65
Rear - 6.60
Banned
Joined: 05 Jun 2020
Posts: 13
Location: USA
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:49 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Been put off Aliexpress with the help of this, got a message last month saying something had been delivered at 1.40pm, 20 minutes earlier. Had a good look around in all the usual spots stuff is normally left and wasn't there. So lodged a complaint. Couple of days later they refunded me, in the meantime I waited like two months. I have a speedo that's been in the country almost 4 weeks now, close to 2 1/2 months since ordering. Making me nervous.

I went through a number of zip ties before realising they were not really up to the task. The straps were much easier.
Have you bought it already? I have been looking for a reliable shop with the cozy way to be informed on prices. That is the great one, I think!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:19 pm quote
It arrived. Was that your question?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:19 am quote
Slow progress, but it's progress so I'm happy.

Ran cables, re-ran cables, and ran them again until they were neat and I was pretty happy with them. The main grommet at the bottom is a bit dodgy and doesn't sit right.
I made a CDI bracket (forgot to take a picture) and a bracket for the BGM regulator.

And I started it! Woo hoo!

It'll go even better when it has a front wheel, but that's another story...

https://youtu.be/E9FVJXZ4KP0

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
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Location: London UK
Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:04 am quote
It finally runs. Great. Sounds like a smallframe should. Blues background music not required. Is this the Zeura engine you built.... some years ago?

Is the paint finish the primer look or is this all just a dry fit and the main event comes later?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:21 am quote
That's the one! Very happy with the sound, even though it has a stock muffler stuck on it at the moment.

Primer until it's registered, then disc and pipe, then strip down and paint.

Unfortunately it has no lighting output though, so that'll need investigation. Hopefully something obvious and easy - it is a brand new stator.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:11 pm quote
I love the iv setup . Ok I can understand the reasoning for putting the regulator in the cavity to protect it from the elements, but wouldn’t it be a pain to do any kind of troubleshooting? Or am I overthinking the whole “ the scooter is more than 50 years old “ thing and it’s going to have problems.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7876
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:56 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
I love the iv setup . Ok I can understand the reasoning for putting the regulator in the cavity to protect it from the elements, but wouldn’t it be a pain to do any kind of troubleshooting? Or am I overthinking the whole “ the scooter is more than 50 years old “ thing and it’s going to have problems.
It's ok until the hose slips off the bottle...

Once set up, most regulators never need attention. I have it located similarly in the Super. Originally I had it in the glovebox and kept dislodging wires when putting stuff in and out.
On a smallie, it's just a matter of lifting out the plastic 'glove box' to get access. That's how you get to the carb anyway.
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