One small frame for man...
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5725
Location: Indo
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 pm quote
Thats inspiring Brother M, i will try to put a regulator like urs on my smallie as well someday
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:28 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
Thats inspiring Brother M, i will try to put a regulator like urs on my smallie as well someday
I ran one like that on the Super before fitting the Vape, just a cheap ebay full-wave regulator/rectifier. And it was fine. This one's a BGM - which I'm sure is exactly the same on the inside. It's just handy because it has pretty good instructions on how to wire it up. Once it's set up I'll test my spare cheap ones to check the function.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:21 pm quote
Slow progress (still). But at least getting somewhere.

The electrical problem turned out to be an unintentional earth in the rear brake housing and switch - I'd left out the rubber under the switch because the 'lever' part that acts on the switch itself is quite low. Ended up sanding off a bit of height from the switch, along with the rubber isolation part. Now shit works, which I find t be an agreeable arrangement.
Trying to find the problem, I re-drew the diagram so I could be clear about what was what. I had been working off 3 diagrams - the (crappy photocopied) SIP one that came with the loom, a hand-drawn one that the guy at Avotecnica did for me for the VMC ignition, and the BGM part diagram for the regulator. I was pretty happy with the result.

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Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1974
Location: california
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:26 pm quote
ooo. missed this.
110į out and there is a fire - making it as close to mad max feeling as you can get in Los Angeles - so busy wining the internet.

This scoot has a ton of good chi.
Hardly recognizable from it's day of arrival.
I tried a few times to draw my wiring diagram and it was a worse mess in cad than the sketch I started with!
This looks pretty good - and you will be happy to have it when you're mucking with it in 6 months and you've forgotten that blue changes to green as it attaches to the sidecar.
Trust me.

Is that some kinda temp gas tank in pic #1?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:59 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
ooo. missed this.
110į out and there is a fire - making it as close to mad max feeling as you can get in Los Angeles - so busy wining the internet.

This scoot has a ton of good chi.
Hardly recognizable from it's day of arrival.
I tried a few times to draw my wiring diagram and it was a worse mess in cad than the sketch I started with!
This looks pretty good - and you will be happy to have it when you're mucking with it in 6 months and you've forgotten that blue changes to green as it attaches to the sidecar.
Trust me.

Is that some kinda temp gas tank in pic #1?
Yeah there's a better pic of it a few posts back. Very much in the bodge vein.

I use cad every day so it's not too bad. Glad to have done it as it's really easy to follow, should make going DC later on much easier. And yes I've done the "I'll remember that, no need to draw it" thing and found (to great amazement) that I didn't.
If you have a decent sketch, send it to me and I'll put something together.

Fire = bad
Hot hot weather = bad

Hot hot + fire = V. bad. Makes you glad you're in the suburbs.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:53 am quote
Ginch wrote:
Slow progress (still). But at least getting somewhere.

The electrical problem turned out to be an unintentional earth in the rear brake housing and switch - I'd left out the rubber under the switch because the 'lever' part that acts on the switch itself is quite low. Ended up sanding off a bit of height from the switch, along with the rubber isolation part. Now shit works, which I find t be an agreeable arrangement.
Trying to find the problem, I re-drew the diagram so I could be clear about what was what. I had been working off 3 diagrams - the (crappy photocopied) SIP one that came with the loom, a hand-drawn one that the guy at Avotecnica did for me for the VMC ignition, and the BGM part diagram for the regulator. I was pretty happy with the result.
I bet redrawing the schematic helped a lot, helps for thinking it through.
Project is coming along beautifully.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:29 pm quote
Cheers Lynn. I always liked how clear and simple the Beedspeed diagrams are - or were now you have to pay for them. So that was the gold standard.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7998
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:55 pm quote
Front end issues? I know you got a mixed bag of parts that hopefully fit.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:57 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Front end issues? I know you got a mixed bag of parts that hopefully fit.
No, just we are sharing an already built up front end for registration purposes... that's with Craig atm. Things are somewhat restricted currently on a few fronts.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:45 am quote
Felt as though I achieved a bit this weekend.

For one I cleaned up the shed so I could move. Always makes me feel better.
Then I made a number plate holder from some scrap ali I had. It's very light and quite solid, almost exactly the size of our plates.



I'd been fiddling with a seat base I made, it was sort of ok but needed too much to work. So I started again, modifying the mold I'd made for the first one. I added 4 raised areas so I can glue 4 seat rubbers on where you actually sit. And a couple of ribs for strength. So that square is around the tank lid, with just enough clearance - I wanted a low seat.

Had a little trouble with my "mold release" which was annoying.

Maybe the tail is a bit long, not quite sure. It's difficult to visualise it properly without it being properly covered. The hump will be pretty small by the time it's covered too - I tried a number of foams (including a slab of gel I bought a while ago) but the most comfortable was the sleeping/yoga mat I bought. Quite soft but being closed cell means it doesn't bottom out. If you'll pardon the pun.

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Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 am quote
What the hell you made your own seat base, wowe. Now that there is a great idea. What did you use to make the mold itself?
edit: you deserve a thumbs up for that one, but got a one per hour limit, I'll be back
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7998
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:37 am quote
Way to go, Ginch!

I like the plate holder and I LOVE the seat You have a good eye.

What did you use for release agent?

Some old pattern shop tips if you ever try it again:
Wax the plaster plug good
Maybe try PVA as your release agent
Put straws w/ taped off ends in the plaster at intervals so you can use air pressure to remove the fiberglass without breaking the plug
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:47 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
What the hell you made your own seat base, wowe. Now that there is a great idea. What did you use to make the mold itself?
edit: you deserve a thumbs up for that one, but got a one per hour limit, I'll be back
Ha ha! Thanks Lynn!
V oodoo wrote:
Way to go, Ginch!

I like the plate holder and I LOVE the seat You have a good eye.

What did you use for release agent?

Some old pattern shop tips if you ever try it again:
Wax the plaster plug good
Maybe try PVA as your release agent
Put straws w/ taped off ends in the plaster at intervals so you can use air pressure to remove the fiberglass without breaking the plug
Oh damn! Should have talked to you beforehand...
Thanks T... I saw something that said you could use grease as a release agent. In retrospect, I see that was Fake News put out by Big Oil.

My mold (plug?) was mostly some high density foam with plaster for the final few mm. You can see the green colour in the broken mold picture.
The straws are an interesting idea, paper or plastic? Might be an issue if I'm shaping the mold though, but if I was making a "proper" fibreglass one I could incorporate that I guess.

I should say it's taken a long time and it would be very easy to trim too much off, so that bottom edge came off in about 8 goes about 2 or 3mm at a time. And I still need to make/adapt a hinge.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5573
Location: So Cal
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:54 pm quote
Mighty fine work there, Ginch. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:57 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Mighty fine work there, Ginch. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Thanks Mike, me too!!
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1974
Location: california
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:28 pm quote
Quote:
For one I cleaned up the shed so I could move. Always makes me feel better.
Oh so true.
Makes work quality better as well - which is evident in the projects.
Very cool fabrication.
Good inspiration!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm quote
So I splashed out and bought a Crimaz master cylinder, the 2.0 version. It's a Thing of Beauty. And the craziest part... it actually fits!! I mean, without having to grind, mill or fettle. That just doesn't happen in my world - I'm sure most of you will know what I'm talking about.

I was a bit concerned that I wouldn't be able to fit my mirror brackets, that it would throw the m/c out of alignment or something. But it's all good - I was able to make them nice and tight into the headset.
Got to say I was pretty pleased with the whole package in the end, it's all fairly discreet I think.

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Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1974
Location: california
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:17 pm quote
Just checking in.
That's a wow.
So clean.
Also - the connecting rod is very techy looking when you get super close.
Kinda best of both worlds.
Like!
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:37 pm quote
That there is a nice clean mod.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7998
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:14 pm quote
C'est magnifique
When love comes in
And takes you for a spin,
Ooh-la-la-la, c'est magnifique!

(Ella Fitzgerald)

Give us a guess for that first spin?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5573
Location: So Cal
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:24 pm quote
Isnít it great when stuff fits?
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2969
Location: Nashville
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:00 pm quote
I'm totally digging that master cylinder. I think this is the perfect summary:
charlieman22 wrote:
So clean.
Also - the connecting rod is very techy looking when you get super close.
Kinda best of both worlds.
That's Elegance in a nutshell right there.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1944
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:43 pm quote
Dangit - now I want one!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:51 pm quote
Thanks guys.
If I was being critical I'd say I was disappointed that the outlet for the M/C is at the bottom, rather than straight out the side. I'm thinking a banjo fitting might be the answer to get it down and to the side in a small space. Not sure what's available as yet.

On the Super I drilled a hole low down so that the brake line would enter the headset on as flat an angle as possible. http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2365307#2365307
This one might come out too low to achieve the same result - avoid air traps between M/C and caliper.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:50 am quote
Ginch where did those mirror mounts come from? Most are flat and donít put the mirror where it needs to be but yours look good.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:53 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
Ginch where did those mirror mounts come from? Most are flat and donít put the mirror where it needs to be but yours look good.
They came from a pile of scrap, but first I had to cut away all the bits that didn't look like a mirror mount...
Over time I've been buying shorter mirrors because they shake less than the long ones - as long as the mount is fairly sturdy. And you can get them pretty much anywhere. When I made my cad template (carboard aided design ) I realised the mirrors would not be angled high enough. So I bent the mounts to the ideal position where the mirror would be in the centre of it's adjustment.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:52 pm quote
sweet job on that Ginch. why do all the ones sold by vendors suck? you banged it out with minimal tools / investment, they should be able to make something proper.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:01 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
sweet job on that Ginch. why do all the ones sold by vendors suck? you banged it out with minimal tools / investment, they should be able to make something proper.
They do seem to make the same ones over and over, I did look for something nicer and it just wasn't there. Be good to get some laser cut from stainless.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2969
Location: Nashville
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:04 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
sweet job on that Ginch. why do all the ones sold by vendors suck? you banged it out with minimal tools / investment, they should be able to make something proper.
Because stamping out flat brackets is cheap. Stamping out a properly angled bracket is much more expensive to manufacture, to the point that most people probably would not buy them.

I fabricated my Sprint mirror mounts out of 1/8" aluminum stock, and have some 1/4" stock I'm going to re-fab them with at some point to further reduce vibration.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 324
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:43 am quote
Ginch wrote:
Be good to get some laser cut from stainless.
Put it into Solidworks (including the folds-straight line bends only, including the angles) and send it to me. Or autocad.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4002
Location: That bushfire place
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:52 am quote
For the seat: yoga mat over boogie board foam.
The one i used had a thick/harder foam "cover/coating" about 6-7mm,,, but glued under that (ie the middle 60-80mm or so) was a nice softer foam .. cut to seperate, & using either all the centre foam, or centre foam with 1 side of the outer foam meant you could control the hardness

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:32 pm quote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
Ginch wrote:
Be good to get some laser cut from stainless.
Put it into Solidworks (including the folds-straight line bends only, including the angles) and send it to me. Or autocad.
The bends are made to suit the mirrors I bought, so probably better to do that mounted on the scooter to suit your own preference. I used a couple of shifters to tweak it. I just scanned it for Ex-Mayor so will create a cad file. Plus Solidworks - got a way to go before I can produce actual useable stuff...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 am quote
Craig has the front end for registration, but I have the PK fork which will get a disc - after it's rego'd. Just thinking about that I realised I have a drum brake that will fit the PK fork perfectly - on the PX that is (also) not on the road yet. So I took it off and fitted it to the smallframe. It was great to be able to wheel it out into the daylight and get a good look at it. And when I started it, it fired first kick. Pretty happy about that.

When the disc goes on the whole front end will be black, so I might paint the drum and backing plate now. The process to register it on "club" registration involves the club scrutineer taking a number of photos. This is to compare later on in case you modify it... the less visible detail the better is my perspective. Doubt the roadworthy guy will realise the bulge in the guard is not stock.

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Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2567
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:43 am quote
Looking good Let the jetting in begin!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8054
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:45 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Looking good Let the jetting in begin!
Ha ha! Got to get that all-important bit of tin with the numbers first...
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 324
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:54 am quote
Looking great Bud.

All the work, knowledge, and skill is paying off.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5573
Location: So Cal
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:58 am quote
Beautiful Ginch. No frills, nice n tidy, everything in its place. Front end looks like it means business. Nice work!
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 324
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:32 am quote
I'm just gonna leave this here...

I enjoyed seeing this.

Link https://youtu.be/k3i-73YCgbk
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2567
Location: London UK
Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:45 am quote
Hilarious 😁 was expecting the giant leap for mankind to be a tiny wheelie, although not disappointed. It works. Needs a good jetting session but works. At last.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Flatness, TX
Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:05 am quote
EPIC!!

Fantastic job Ginch! Congratulations!
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