Tumbliní Tumbler ó ignition key spinning and spinning Gts250
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Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:16 pm quote
Hey everyone,
First time post, happy to be here!

I recently picked up a verrrry used gts250 for dirt cheap and the number one issue I need to tackle is the ignition.

The key worked well and it fired right up on the test drive but when I shut it off the key spun around and round loosely and now the whole thing is shot ó no life at all, no power. The cylinder inside seems to have become unmoored.

Any guesses? Iím really hoping I donít have to rekey and the whole new throttle body expense $$$

I removed the glovebox panel to take a look and other than a pliers-mangled metal collar around the key tumbler everything seems to be there. (Seems like someone tried to steal it maybe at some point?) Is there a retaining clip or something that keeps the cyclones

Thanks for any advice you can throw my way I appreciate it
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 13 Sep 2017
Posts: 788
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:38 pm quote
Hmmm...this is a new one for me. Welcome!

Try researching in Wiki or Seach gor gt 250 iginition and see what pops up on here.

Next, I'd search youtube specifically Scooterwest/Vespa Motorsports videos and see if they have an ignition topic video.

After that, I ain't got nothing my friend. Let's see what others post on here.
Hooked
2003 ET2 (SOLD); 2004 GT200
Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Posts: 304
Location: Atlanta, GA
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:01 pm quote
Something similar happened to my GT200 after I removed the glovebox assembly and incorrectly re-installed it. I'd try removing/reinstalling the glovebox assembly (video I used is here youtube.com/watch?v=Uff6HoCZOuk) and see if that fixes it.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37424
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:39 pm quote
I think you'll find it's just the ignition switch itself that's 'exploded'. Not uncommon. The switch is pretty cheap and easy to replace. It sits at the very back of the ignition key system, held in place by a spring clip.
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:13 pm quote
Thanks for all the tips! I really appreciate it.

Does anyone know if the electronic ignition switch will still operate by spinning the knob manually (ie, no key) just to check if it's what's faulty?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37424
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:43 pm quote
pathosbill wrote:
Thanks for all the tips! I really appreciate it.

Does anyone know if the electronic ignition switch will still operate by spinning the knob manually (ie, no key) just to check if it's what's faulty?
If the 'stops' in the switch are broken, it's quite possible (if not probable) that the flimsy contact tracks inside are buggered as well. Try it by all means, remembering that in order to start the engine a key must be close to the immobiliser antenna. So place a key in the barrel, and manually turn the switch.
Hooked
GTS 250ie Super, Italjet Velocifero, Scarabeo 150, S50,ET4
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 374
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:31 pm quote
My neighbor recently had this problem on his LX50 that I sold him. I had forgot to put the Cylinder retaining spring in. It is very hard to see unless you know what your looking for. It might also be the clip that holds your starter switch in. Try and see if the cylinder pulls out, if it does its the cylinder retaining clip. If it doesn't then pull the horn cover and see if you can pull the switch off. If you can't then that's not your clip that's missing. Then I suggest you pull the glove box and see what's going on. You will need to pull the box in order to replace the cylinder retaining clip.

Here is a blow up of what's going on, I suspect part 10 It clips down to hold the cylinder in place. Be sure to have the key in the off position when you install it.

GTS Lock set.jpg

Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 864
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:55 pm quote
If it takes the same lock barrel as the px style locks... maybe the tabs on the back of the lock barrel broke off? I ordered replacements for mine from SIP and the new ones broke off after barely touching them. sometimes bad batch and those tabs are a weak point.

I apologize if this is useless feedback if your model doesn't use the same lock component. I've never seen the lock mechanism on it.

s-l1600.jpg
those two tabs on the back of each lock cylinder are what spins the ignition/wheel lock mechanism. Sometimes they break off.

Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:27 am quote
Wow so much help and great advice! Parts are ordered, jets have been scrambled.

Thanks everybody!
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:27 am quote
Iíve hit a roadblock replacing the (very cracked and broken) tumbler in the ignition barrel. It almost pops out but is blocked - I think by the fork tube/fork lock setup?

Do I need to drop the fork out of the headstock to get this frigging tumbler out?

(Iíve attached a pic, hope it works)[/img][/quote]

8F6998F9-6210-4673-B985-6984D58DD3C2.jpeg

Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:28 am quote
Better angle of the stuck tumbler

9E2F52CF-896C-4EB8-A9EF-D4F3FD89E30E.jpeg

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37424
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:29 am quote
Is that bit (steering lock) actually broken? If not, and it spins OK, just replace the barrel and switch - with the steering lock in the 'unlocked' posistion!
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:54 am quote
Yep the steering lock (thanks for the proper term) is indeed broken. The previous owner mustíve taken a hammer to it in an attempt to get it out, its rear collar has snapped off
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37424
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:12 am quote
Bummer. Yes, it's fork dropping time. It's actually not too bad a job if you take it slowly, and note how all the brake lines and wires are routed for easy re-assembly.
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:41 pm quote
Bummer is right.

This'll definitely be a first for me. Is there a special vespa-sized headset wrench required, or is it a common tool I can get anywhere?

Thanks for all the help everybody!
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37424
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:06 pm quote
After removing the handlebars (completely removing the pinch bolt) you can undo the steering head nuts with a drift - and do them up again with one. There is a special tool that shops use, if you're extra friendly with your local shop they might lend it to you. At the least they might show it to you, so you can see how to make one yourself from a bit of steel pipe should you wish to do so.
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver BC
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:39 am quote
Hi everyone, thought I'd close the loop with a follow-up!

Many thanks to everyone who gave me the know-how to tackle something like this!

-dropped the fork, new bearings, new fork lock ó think previous owner took a hammer and screwdriver to try and knock it out ó and new ignition switch (plus discovered the bearing dust cap was missing!)

- replaced the wonky half-melted (?) front fender

- replaced the bodged glovebox door - dude had taken an angle grinder to the latch and replaced it with some cheap furniture lock from a hardware store...


- new grips, windshield and seat covers from Cheeky Seats

= one happy daughter who loves being dropped off and picked up from school on "Vespucci"


Thanks again for all the help everyone! Couldn't have done it without you.

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Last edited by pathosbill on Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:51 am; edited 2 times in total
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 864
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:46 am quote
Bravo!
Addicted
2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his)
Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Posts: 647
Location: Vermont
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:34 am quote
Well done and thanks for the follow up!
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