Vespa GTS Sport, Yamaha Xmax 300, or BMW C400x
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Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
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Location: Philadelphia, USA
Sun May 06, 2018 7:56 pm quote
Thinking of possibly upgrading from ET4. Thoughts?

Vespa GTS Sport, Yamaha Xmax 300, or BMW C400x?
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 4796
Location: South Carolina
Sun May 06, 2018 9:34 pm quote
If you want the best scooter in it's class, get the Yamaha, if you want a Vespa, the choice is obvious. If you want to tell everyone you meet that BMW makes scooters too, get the BMW. BMW does make great scooters, but the upkeep is a little pricey compared to Yamaha or Honda.
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3881
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon May 07, 2018 4:14 am quote
Just look at the name of this forum.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2002
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Mon May 07, 2018 6:00 am quote
Emotional vs. Practical vs. Exuberant
From a technical/mechanical standpoint, I don't think any of these bikes is especially lacking versus the others. None is a turkey, so we can get that question out of the way PDQ.

From an emotional standpoint, IMO, it's Vespa, 24/7/365. I'm reminded of a billboard showing the back of a mid-60s Corvette against a black background, above which was printed, "They don't write songs about Volvos." So there. For me, there's also the matter of the GTS being the one bike of these three that's still pretty much scooterish, if you get my drift: quite maneuverable in tight spots and very low speeds. The other two bikes, with their longer wheelbase and larger wheels, lose out here, but I'm told can be a bit smoother on longer highway jaunts.

From an absolutely-practical standpoint, I'd probably pick the Xmax. Based on the rep Yamaha developed from the S and T models, you'd probably have to run the thing off a cliff to actually break it, so if you're not one to dote on your machine much, the Yamaha delivers. (This is not to knock the Vespa, BTW: I've had no issues with mine whatsoever.)

The BMW gets the Alan Greenspan Award for Maximum Name Recognition: where Vespa pretty much rules in the scooter realm, those three little letters seem to rule everywhere else, whether on two wheels or four, so be prepared for being peppered with remarks like "ooh, they make scooters too?" A few MV folk own the bigger Beemer and seem to like it lots, so I'll presume a lot of that DNA rubbed off on the 400 as well. But, lordy, it puts the max in maxi-scooter, which IMO goes a bit against the scooter ethic.

But, hey, one guy's opinion...and look what I ride.

Last edited by amateriat on Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:30 pm; edited 4 times in total
Hooked
"MY WIFES" 2010 GTS FASTER & BETTER ENGINEERED THAN YOURS!!
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
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Mon May 07, 2018 6:07 am quote
uh the bimmer?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6161
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon May 07, 2018 6:25 am quote
Look into the maintenace cost of the BMW and I think you'll take that one off your list.
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3881
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon May 07, 2018 6:54 am quote
I am selling my Honda NC700X this week because I never ride it.

Instead, I ride my Vespas because they can take anywhere I want to go.

With style too.

My Vespas are GTs. A GTS 300 is even more capable.

I recommend the Vespa.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Mon May 07, 2018 9:00 am quote
I too am obsessed with Vespa and now finally know how to do most of the work myself on it.

I do like the look of the BMW and the Yamaha. BMW and Vespa will be around same cost. Yamaha is cheaper than both.

How about ride wise. I only really use it to ride into town 4miles away and locally. I almost never travel more than 10 miles away on it. The et4 has served well but I moved and sometimes it struggles up hills
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Mon May 07, 2018 9:16 am quote
Haven't a clue about the Yamaha 300 but i have a 125cc Yamaha Vino. Slower than molasses. Dependable but slowww! Replaced the exhaust and now it goes a little faster but the LX 150 goes way faster. Not much difference from the 125. Whenever i see BMW i think expensive.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1071
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Mon May 07, 2018 9:37 am quote
XMax, for sure.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2002
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 am quote
I'm tempted to say that your choice is between the Vespa and the Yamaha, with a nudge toward the Vespa on account of maneuverability: smaller wheels, shorter wheelbase, lighter weight and (likely) lower center-of-gravity. Whether you're backing into or out of a parking space or threading through slow/dense traffic, I think the GTS scores very highly. Not saying it can't be done on the Max, but that bike's dimensions tell me it'll be a bit more challenging.
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3881
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon May 07, 2018 11:19 am quote
I went to the local Yamaha dealership and sat on an Xmax.

They are Big!

At that moment I truly realized that I am a Vespa rider. I see no reason to have something that big when the Vespa does everything I need.

Because you only ride short distances, the GTS will be much easier to use to get around town.

And it is so cool.

Bill
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
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Location: West Sacramento, CA
Mon May 07, 2018 11:28 am quote
WLeuthold wrote:
Just look at the name of this forum.
+1

(I'm a bit biased, almost got a Buddy from Geniune when I first got my LX 150. Don't regret going with the Vespa. Especially now with my 300! I love it.)
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 13 Sep 2017
Posts: 510
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Mon May 07, 2018 11:29 am quote
judy wrote:
Haven't a clue about the Yamaha 300 but i have a 125cc Yamaha Vino. Slower than molasses. Dependable but slowww! Replaced the exhaust and now it goes a little faster but the LX 150 goes way faster. Not much difference from the 125. Whenever i see BMW i think expensive.
Compared to Piaggio?!
Ossessionato
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 3600
Location: Downtown Toronto
Mon May 07, 2018 11:31 am quote
As the owner of a Vespa and a BMW I say get the Vespa. Vespa's really are a joy to ride and stylish.

Don't get me wrong, I like my BMW but that is my get out of town and get groceries (tons of storage) bike. For your needs the Vespa is a perfect fit.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Mon May 07, 2018 6:41 pm quote
Maintenance
So out of the three which requires the least amount of maintenance and easiest to find parts. I think maintenance on the vespa was fairly simple.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2002
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Mon May 07, 2018 6:51 pm quote
I'm betting it's a draw between the Vespa and Yamaha on the general-maintenance front, with a bit of an edge to the Yamaha in terms of service network(s), although it appears lots of shops dealing with scooters in general can handle Vespas; even the Indian dealer near me could've handled my bike even if they hadn't taken over the Vespa line from the dealership that sold me the bike.
Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 24

Mon May 07, 2018 8:46 pm quote
If you want to ride in plastic, donít get the Vespa.
If you want to look like the majority of the global scooter flock, donít get the Vespa.
If you want to ride a classic, get the Vespa.
If you want to ride in style, get the Vespa.

All the scoots are great rides, it all boils down to what spirit moves you.
Enthusiast
Yamaha X MAX 300 (2018), PX 125 (sold), GTS 125 ABS/ASR(sold), Yamaha MT-07(sold)
Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 80
Location: Switzerland
Mon May 07, 2018 11:59 pm quote
Hi. I`ve just purchased x max 300 few days ago. I didn`t find it any big or heavy during test ride, it gave me feel of confidence from the very first minute. Once you hop on, it doesn`t feel big any more, and imagine my last daily ride is PX which is really small bike . X max is VERY stable while cornering, i feel i can do cornering on higher speeds then i did on my MT/FZ 07 even. I`ve had GTS, the speed of 100 km/h was already bit scary, maybe because it was 125 cc and engine was working on it`s limit at that speed, do not know for sure, but on x max 100 kmh feels like nothing special. I didn`t do more than 100 km/h yet, cause the bike is in it`s breaking period, but i feel it can go much faster easily. the suspension is great, a bit stiff though, the ride is easy and relaxed, weather protection is great, storage is massive. Just remember that it`s made for a tall-ish riders, seat is high and levers are made for a long-ish fingers and not adjustable, otherwise it`s a great ride.

P.S.
I didn`t consider BMW, cause it`s not on the market yet, and will be much more expensive that x max for sure. I do love vespas, and i`m not saying that i`m over with them forever, but here in Europe, vespas are literally on every corner, i even feel a bit more special with my new x max. Oh, and i`ve noticed much more respect from the cagers on the road, maybe because of agressive look and size of the x max.

20180504_182248.jpg



Last edited by Igor76 on Tue May 08, 2018 11:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Tue May 08, 2018 9:01 am quote
S prices on OEM Piaggio parts have come way down in the past few years. A new carb cost me $170.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Tue May 08, 2018 11:04 am quote
Igor76 wrote:
Hi. I`ve just purchased x max 300 few days ago.
All three look awesome and have their functionality. I do like the larger tires of the XMAX and the BMW. One thing that always annoyed me about the Vespa body on the bottom is all the chip marks. Not sure why they dont come factory with a vinyl wrap on the bottom. By the way that color is incredible. We only get the XMAX in white booooo
Enthusiast
Yamaha X MAX 300 (2018), PX 125 (sold), GTS 125 ABS/ASR(sold), Yamaha MT-07(sold)
Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 80
Location: Switzerland
Wed May 09, 2018 12:31 am quote
zwniana wrote:
Igor76 wrote:
Hi. I`ve just purchased x max 300 few days ago.
All three look awesome and have their functionality. I do like the larger tires of the XMAX and the BMW. One thing that always annoyed me about the Vespa body on the bottom is all the chip marks. Not sure why they dont come factory with a vinyl wrap on the bottom. By the way that color is incredible. We only get the XMAX in white booooo
IMHO BMW is in another league due to power/mass/pricewise. And i`m gonna say if you take one of these modern machines, you will miss vespa for sure, maybe not when you riding, but just the feeling that you do not have a vespa anymore, you know... Maybe not, it`s personal)
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia
Wed May 09, 2018 6:18 am quote
You didn't have it on your list, but I would suggest looking at the BV 350. I previously owned an LX 150 and a GTS 300ie. Both were fine, stylish and dependable. However, I prefer the BV for 3 reasons: (1) larger wheels means more stability at speed; (2) the wet clutch provides real engine braking; and (3) a bit more power than the 300ie. As you can see, you will get a raft of recommendations. All are sincere and thought out. What is the "best" purchase for you is completely idiosyncratic. If the vehicle works for you, it's the "best" one by definition. What I like or don't like can help inform your decision, but you will be the one sitting on seat and going down the road. Cast a wide net for choices because this is a big dollar purchase. Go with what you want after thinking the choices through and getting test rides if possible. Then, enjoy the ride -- that's what everyone here is trying to do.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Wed May 09, 2018 7:45 am quote
griffin1108 wrote:
You didn't have it on your list, but I would suggest looking at the BV 350. I previously owned an LX 150 and a GTS 300ie. Both were fine, stylish and dependable. However, I prefer the BV for 3 reasons: (1) larger wheels means more stability at speed; (2) the wet clutch provides real engine braking; and (3) a bit more power than the 300ie.
I didnt even think of the BV. Thank you! the larger tires is something that is a must for me. The et4 definately gets very squirrelly at 55mph and up. Thats really the highest I can go on the local roads around here.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1071
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Wed May 09, 2018 1:18 pm quote
If the BV is in play, it's a great scoot'! It rides very well and has ~33 HP with great ABS brakes.
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3881
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Wed May 09, 2018 2:21 pm quote
zwniana wrote:
the larger tires is something that is a must for me. The et4 definately gets very squirrelly at 55mph and up. Thats really the highest I can go on the local roads around here.
The GTS has 12" wheels. Stable until the rev limiter cuts in.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2002
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Wed May 09, 2018 5:30 pm quote
For the record, I've had Melody up to an honest 85mph and things were reasonably steady (on a somewhat windy day). Naturally, how things "feel" can be rather personal, so take this as anecdotal.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Wed May 09, 2018 8:18 pm quote
surprised no one suggested I buy all three
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2002
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Wed May 09, 2018 8:19 pm quote
zwniana wrote:
surprised no one suggested I buy all three
Hey, we're not that crazy here...
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black
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Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia
Thu May 10, 2018 7:15 am quote
amateriat wrote:
For the record, I've had Melody up to an honest 85mph and things were reasonably steady (on a somewhat windy day). Naturally, how things "feel" can be rather personal, so take this as anecdotal.
I get your point. When I moved to the GTS from the LX, it seemed "massive" and "stable" in comparison. When I moved to the BV from the GTS, I had the same impression. I can't "prove" the BV is more stable at speed than the GTS, but it feels that way to me.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1071
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thu May 10, 2018 9:10 am quote
I ride my BV350 to an honest 80 MPH regularly, when on the highway. I would call it rock solid with a little extra power in the event that you need to accelerate.
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Sat May 12, 2018 7:02 pm quote
Color choices on the Yamaha and bmw are weak.
Molto Verboso
2004 Vespa ET4, 2009 Vespa S150, Suzuki Burgman 200
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1792
Location: Florida Keys
Sat May 12, 2018 7:46 pm quote
It is important to like what you own, but clearly if you are looking beyond Vespa you are not committed to the brand.

BMW has a terrible reputation, not verified by me, for high ownership costs. Vespa is cool. Yamaha is practical.

I have always had a Vespa. So it was easy to keep my ultra dependable ET4 when I wanted to go large(r). I have reservations about the GTS design for high mileage riding so I chose differently.

Donít regret not buying the GTS if your heart pulls you that way for you will regret it every time you ride your non-GTS.
Hooked
"MY WIFES" 2010 GTS FASTER & BETTER ENGINEERED THAN YOURS!!
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Posts: 488
Location: STAYOFFVILLE
Sat May 12, 2018 8:05 pm quote
SCTLVR wrote:
I ride my BV350 to an honest 80 MPH regularly, when on the highway. I would call it rock solid with a little extra power in the event that you need to accelerate.
So the BV allows for added throttle at 80mph? To what? 90?
I would hope a conventional fork scooter felt "solid" at speed. Thats part of the loose feeling on the large frame.
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1376
Location: North Jersey
Sun May 13, 2018 5:08 am quote
As to your stated use, All 3 will certainly handle the job well and take you there in comfort and style.

If you have a dealer do all your maintenance, having a dealer somewhat local to you would be important.
As to the maintenance cost, I'd eliminate the BMW. It's been verified that owners of the C650 who have the dealer do the recommended maintenance will double their $10,000 purchase price (it's higher now I know) just in regular maintenance over a 100K mile ownership. I know, who keeps a ride for 100K? Even if you won't ride it 100K, you have to figure that cost over the equivalent years instead of miles. Point is, it'll be very expensive either way, as we can assume similar high maintenance cost for the C400.

Since you've been happy with what you've had, I'd say get the Vespa.
But, maybe you want a style change?
YOU have to make the choice on what style you want for your ride.
Hooked
13 Vespa 300GTV, 05 Burgman 650, 2013 BV 350
Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 435
Location: Utah
Sun May 13, 2018 5:25 am quote
I just sold my ET4 150cc. Just to small for the 2 up riding we like to do. And to be honest the 10" wheels on our Utah roads were not all that pleasant.

You have to decide what your riding is going to be. Mine was I enjoy the upright position, I wanted bigger tires to smooth out the roads. I wanted more comfort for my wife on the back. I didn't want cc's to hold us back exploring, and I wanted to be able to trailer it and take it on trips.

I looked at several. Even a Suzuki VanVan, which was a close 2nd.

I bought the BV350 it met all those requirements. The riding position is very adventure bike like.

I also looked up accessories, parts, maintenance items and it seemed Piaggio was pretty easy to get. A big factor for me. Looking at the Kymcos, Hondas, etc. they had limited add-ons.

One of the guys in our scooter club has a Yamaha Smax. Wonderful bike. While we were talking he mentioned that the maintenance schedule on it was more often and to get to things was hard. He bought a Sei Giorigio and gave the Yamaha to his son. I don't know if those same things would carry over to the other Yamaha models.

It took me months to make my decision. And I am perfectly happy with the BV. To me it is a do all scooter with style.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1071
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Sun May 13, 2018 10:07 am quote
Top speed for the BV350 is stated as 86 MPH. I have not felt the rev limiter cut in yet and am not sure what the true top speed is. Going down a steep hill on the freeway I saw an indicated 97 once. The scoot' was stable and solid but I don't like to stress the engine that much. The brakes are good for one quick stop from a high speed and then overheat and fade. This is expected in my estimation given the weight and single front rotor. It's a great scoot' and I never get left behind by anyone but sports bikes and large displacements standards/sports tourers in general riding. On the highway, the above bikes are obviously quicker and are joined by smaller displacement bikes of the same ilk.
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Sun May 13, 2018 10:20 am quote
IGOR i love your helmet. Who makes it?
Hooked
2018 XMAX
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Philadelphia, USA
Sun May 13, 2018 3:55 pm quote
Wish I could test drive all three. Vespa dealership is fairly far. BMW and Yamaha close by. Excited to see bmw whenís itís released. I do like the compartments of Yamaha and bmw. I have 3 months to decide.
Addicted
Yamaha XMAX 300, Sprint 150, PX 150 (red) PX 177 (white)
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 583

Sun May 13, 2018 9:43 pm quote
Definitely the XMAX. Best handling scooter on the road.
Also check out the new Forza 300. Released in Thailand just this week so should be hitting Europe already.
I'd still take the XMAX 300. Much better looking.
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