PX221 - MHR very tuned - 38mm Dellorto
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Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: California
Mon May 11, 2020 5:08 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I found this one the other day which is not too invasive either. No link, it was a youtube video of a young Italian guy showing off with no gloves (sorry just described every Italian Vespa youtube video).

CM the link to Aliexpress gets us there but not the specific one.
Wow
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon May 11, 2020 6:53 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Little sleuthing.
Looks like it is made by a company called D.B. something. Cant make it out.
Anyone know who that might be?
Info here - maybe this is an early version of the stainless one in the pic?
https://youtu.be/H7fM8ZgKXuU

https://www.facebook.com/lorenzocillario32/

Or he says to contact him here - https://www.instagram.com/lollo_cilla/

Probably just as easy to make it?
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Mon May 11, 2020 9:36 pm quote
Ahh - should have known Ginch would find it.
Of course - I have my bodge sources also - so not to be outdone...
Scooter Clinic in Malaysia will sell either of these models - with damper - for $150 US.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=scooter%20clinic&epa=SEARCH_BOX

They are using the same damper as the Italian video.
That damper can also be purchased here for $29.00: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031714070.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.211916a7ZatvpL&algo_pvid=65bb391d-706b-42ee-8267-1d9b6ac3f555&algo_expid=65bb391d-706b-42ee-8267-1d9b6ac3f555-37&btsid=0ab50a5715892423961004893ee955&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
The mount is a bit less refined but very similar.

Jack - since this is your thread we are hijacking - let it be said that I don't know anyone who would want to get on the back of your scoot anyway - having seen the videos...

Think I just figured out what I am going to do with that damper I bought...

🙂

Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 10.29.37 PM.png
Scooter Clinic's model (they have two)

Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 10.29.17 PM.png
Other version of mount

Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Tue May 12, 2020 2:28 am quote
Cheers guys. Wish there was a way of not having the steering damper right in your face.

Something rotary at the base of the horn cover would be perfect. Would be quite a niche market to make something to fit.

Using motorcycle ones seems like the only solution. Will see how I go with new tyre and shocks. Will not make it worse

Last edited by Jack221 on Wed May 13, 2020 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue May 12, 2020 3:01 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Cheers guys. Wish there was a way of not having the steering damper right in your face.
A mate of mine built this when he had a broken leg. Put the steering damper on afterwards. It does require small mounting holes through the legsheilds, otherwise it connects directly to a bracket attached to the top of the mudguard mount.

Rolf sidecar 3.jpg

Rolf sidecar 4.jpg

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Tue May 12, 2020 5:12 pm quote
The damper is great - however - the sidecar has been mounted to the wrong side!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue May 12, 2020 6:48 pm quote
Ha ha! Next you'll be telling me we should all be using special gallons to measure our petrol gas?
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Wed May 13, 2020 2:25 am quote
Sidecar must be on the correct side because you can kick start it and work on the engine.

This is the kind of steering damper fitting I think I'm going to end up with. On the front attached in a similar way. Will see how it goes when it's back on the road.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2905
Location: Nashville
Wed May 13, 2020 2:30 pm quote
I might drill holes in my legshield for a damper setup like that. You could also fabricate a bracket that hooked into the legshield and mount the damper to that if you were really anti-drilling.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:06 am quote
Who's In Front
Time for new shocks and a long list of other jobs. About time it had some maintenance.

For this first session working at the front end it's;
New shock SIP performance to replace now old Carbone
New brake pads, not worn so bad but while I'm there
Brake fluid change, as there is no choice
Top and bottom fork bearings
Paint forks
New front tyre, 90mph Dunlop again
Freshly painted mudguard, old one got scraped along the floor somehow

Once this lot is done there is another list for the bulbus end.

shocking.jpg
Anyone have an intitail set up for this shock? Preload? Damping (18 clicks)?

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:40 pm quote
Ahh - a SIP care package.
It's always best in this moment.
Before it has been installed.
All shiny, new & promising.
Before you realize you will need to get out the Dremel to fit what ever it is.
The anodized bits flying from the burr.
No idea on the settings.
Was wondering if we should see the 38mm carb back on the road this summer.
Carry on.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:18 pm quote
I think they are listening. Front shock actually fitted nice. Came with shims, used two, fits great. Will re-attach forks to frame tomorrow.

Care package was huge. Lots to do. Been going so well I've hardly touched it. Once all the usual stuff is done, going to have a slight re tune, with something exciting. But that's next weeks episode.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:12 pm quote
Front done. All went together as expected. Brake bleed was easier than usual, as I now have an eBay vacuum bleed pump, which actually worked.
Still need to adjust the shock. There was a procedure with it that could get me started.

tyred2.jpg

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: California
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:48 pm quote
Sweet no scratch. Disc brake envy.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am quote
Middle
Moving on down the list. Busy day in the garage.

Back shock is now on. Rear one to match the front
Changed the shaft seal on the clutch cover
New gear oil. JASC MA2 10/40
Replaced fuel pipe from pump to carb
Timing advanced another 2 degrees. Kytronic curve changed.

Now all set for the much more interesting stuff.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:15 pm quote
Timing changes.
Don't blow it up.
🙂
Shiny new bits sure look good!
Do you use the GSF dyno software?
Will be interesting to see what kind of results/precision we get out of it with the hard wire method.
Kinda hopeful it becomes another legit tuning tool.
-CM
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:45 pm quote
Timing changes so far are just ignition. With the curve change it puts the high rpm part back in the same place. No concern here.

Tried GSF Dyno but never had much luck. I'll try again once this stage of changes are done. Power should be getting near the theoretical limit. Big. Too big.

As long as all the variables stay the same, whether the power reading is accurate or not GSF has to be useful. If only for comparison, like you're doing with cylinders.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:54 am quote
Quote:
As long as all the variables stay the same, whether the power reading is accurate or not GSF has to be useful. If only for comparison, like you're doing with cylinders.
Agreed - and it will be interesting to see if it is repeatable enough with the direct connection to be able to use it to help jet in the carb as well.

Question: with that honking big carb your running - is there fall off down low due to the sheer size of the carb throat (with commensurate bigger power up top)?
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:14 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Question: with that honking big carb your running - is there fall off down low due to the sheer size of the carb throat (with commensurate bigger power up top)?
This can be an issue with big carbs but with these VHS dellortos they have fine and multiple adjustments of everything. With the two part pilot jet and atomisers in 0.01mm increments, if prepared to put the time in adjusting they get really smooth. So no, great; only problem being with a 185 main jet, open it up wide and all the fuel magically disappears.

This week's changes might end up needing an even bigger jet. Going to be fun.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:16 pm quote
Hold Tight
Last job before the main event. Increased the base packer by 0.5mm this puts the exhaust port just under 200 degrees. Was planning to run a thinner head gasket but didn't have the right size, so decided in the heat of the moment to bolt it up without one. Squish is 0.65mm. Tight. I've run that tight before but not on this tune. Kickstart creaks a bit before the engine turns. Didn't work out the compression yet but I'll bet it's more than 13:1.
Going to run it. I'll change it if it gets too hot.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:54 am quote
Make sure to video your last ride.
That's a joke - try not to kill yourself (without videoing).
Second joke.
Just can't seem to leave it alone.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Internets say its perfect temp for a bit of test riding there.
What was the change other than slight lifting of the cylinder to astronomical?
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:46 pm quote
It is getting a bit jumpy. Quite a handful but that's it's purpose. I have others to ride slowly.

Last delayed part of the jigsaw received today. Might take a few days before it's ready to ride but we have a storm to get over and should be running by then. Have to keep it down to regular speed in heavy wind. No fun in that.

Theoretically it will be over 45bhp when ready, possibly even 50bhp. Hope I get to ride it a while before something breaks. There is a chance it will be un-rideable but fingers crossed it isn't. Going to be exciting either way.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:14 am quote
It's ready!
New exhaust fitted. Took the Bullet off and put a Hornet on. Lost the centre stand and spare wheel in the process but at least its lighter. And I can adjust the clutch now.

If it goes crap (ie. dangerous) I can always put it back as it was (assuming we're all still in one piece).

Main jet upped to 190. Can't be too careful.

Test ride tomorrow. Most likely. Weather depending.

Some pictures below.

All sounds very innocent
[url]
http://www.pipedesign.de/auspuffanlagen/px-200/hornet-245-evo.html
[/url]

PipeDesign Hornet 245 Dyno.jpg
From their website, similar setup

Bullet 220.jpg
Bullet 220 HS. Here's the old pipe. Wasn't made for British Winter. One careful owner.

Hornet245.jpg
Hornet 245 Evo. So shiny. Not for long.

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:38 am quote
Quote:
Main jet upped to 190. Can't be too careful.
Indeed.
Quote:
All sounds very innocent
Sounds a hair lean down low to me
🙂

Don't kill yourself.

-CM
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1049
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:35 pm quote
So insidious... doesn’t sound like You’d expect >3x stock (maybe >4x???) power to sound like. Scary.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:41 am quote
Insidious. Great word. Definitely how it goes. Shocks were hard. Front brake pads bedding in and not working so good. Clutch grabby, Pilot jet was too small (CM called it). Something dodgy going on mid throttle and spluttered mildly at WOT.
But overall violent. Hits the powerband and flies. 2nd gear floats the front on any heavy throttle. 3rd gear revs out high, then splutters, look down and it's doing over 70mph and 10,500 rpm. 190 main too big, no surprise. Think when I go out again with the 185 main jet back in, it will be 11,000rpm maxed out. This is plenty. Even for me. Sounds awesome so far.

Jetting prepared for next time out. Pilot jet up 6, needle up half a clip to 2.5, main jet down to 185. Maybe tomorrow.

It is a bit dangerous but can be ridden slowly ok. Cruises along at 30mph just fine. I think it's going to work out.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:43 pm quote
Sounds exciting. Where in London can you do 70mph for any length of time?
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:05 pm quote
This is just another reason the scooter is more fun than the bikes. The motorway limit is 70mph but can be pushed to near 80mph before thinking about cameras. The odd brief excursion to 90mph no one's going to worry about. Would think Australia is the same?
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1049
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:19 pm quote
The irony is that your P sounds like it is safer to go fast rather than slow. Think Aus is like NZ..? mostly capped at 100kmph on open road and motorways. Often 80kmph if busier areas. We have sections of 110kmph motorways but those are few and far between. Maybe Aus has more of them?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:45 pm quote
Not really, although you might be forgiven for thinking like that.
The highest speed limit in this state is 110km/h on certain sections of freeway, a long way out of built-up areas. Otherwise it's 100 on freeways. There's a number of fixed speed cameras as well as private contractors recording speeding vehicles. They'll just be parked by the side of the road somewhere in a plain car. Then police in marked and unmarked cars.
My mate and I got pulled up in his van doing 140km/h on the Nullarbor Plain when heading to a rally... a literal handful of tiny towns on a basically straight road of 1200km length.

In this state if you get caught doing more than 29km/h over the speed limit, the fine is $450 and automatic 3 months license suspension.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:34 am quote
Hard to believe it's so unforgiving for Antipodeans , thought it would be more easy going. Come to the UK for a speeding holiday.
All minimum two lane A and M roads can tolerate riding at 79mph past the cameras, even overtaking police cars. Would raise an eyebrow on a scooter though, so don't do it on that. UK being modestly sized these roads are everywhere, never far from one.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:51 am quote
Ha ha! Now there's a great tourism opportunity, Jack's Speeding Holidays. I like it.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1562
Location: UK (South East)
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:05 am quote
I used my 225 on the motorway yesterday. Easy 70+ mph for a 10 mile stretch, but it wasn't much fun. Got me where I needed to be, but the buffeting from the wind and the constant in and out of truck slipstreams was very tiresome. Give me a scenic country or mountain road any day, with sufficient power to accelerate hard out of sweeping bends. That's where Vespa power is best laid down IMHO
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: California
Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:38 am quote
Darn that sounds healthy like how it returns to idle so gently and promptly be careful.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:54 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
That's where Vespa power is best laid down IMHO
+1
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2510
Location: London UK
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:52 pm quote
At least I had some fun. Flywheel is going round in an amusing way now, still runs but un-rideable.
Before I realised the flywheel wobble, I thought it was sounding a bit "big endy". And weird vibrating at low rpm. Although still very impressed by the powerband rush.

Started to strip down but still had my Honda 600 in bits, so thought better of mixing the two jobs. Will be next week before we see twisted crank and maybe mangled casings. I can see a big bill and a down tune in its future. The crank was a fully polished welded competition one but it was Pinasco!

Last edited by Jack221 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1850
Location: california
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:32 pm quote
Oh man.
Painful.
Hopefully something less severe.
Any chance it was just the flywheel giving way or did you already pull and find its crank shaft related?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8015
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:28 pm quote
Flywheel side bearing?
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1562
Location: UK (South East)
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:56 pm quote
That's a bugger Jack. Hopefully just a broken bearing as Ginch said. Hope the casing is ok, as that's the difficult/expensive bit to replace, although some good could come out of this in the form of VR-One cases !!
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