Finding Viton (FPM/FKM) clutch-side seal.
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Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Cornwall UK
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 am quote
I've read these, and several other, threads before posting:
P-Series Clutch Seals
PX Clutch Side Oil Seal...

I know this has been kicked around a lot before, but this is not about 'what to fit' or 'how to fit', it's about finding what I want to fit, which is a 'Viton', rubber-edged 31x62.1x5.8/4.3, with Loctite 603; it's what I did in my engine now, which is still going strong.

Older engines, in my case this '81 P150X casing I'm playing with, need a rubber edged clutch-side crank case oil seal. We also want 'Viton', as extra protection against modern fuels.

I do actually still have two Rolf, brown 'Viton', rubber-edged 31x62.1x5.8/4.3 seals in my little spares stock, but I'd like to source more before I use them. I've already checked Rolf (Gapi), and Corteco (Corteco have it in NBR not FPM, which we know – the blue ones):

https://www.gapi.co.uk/Products/Oil_Seals

https://www.findyourseal.com/

Option 1). I don't like Beedspeed; haven't used them for a few years, since they repeatedly let me down after Alan Beedham retired and sold up to Johnny Entrepreneur. They do seem to have them, but close-up of the image shows manufacturer as Gufero, who I haven't heard of; has anyone else used Gufero? That's here:

https://beedspeed.com/products/vespa-oil-seal-kit-viton-p125x-p150x-p200e-rally-ducati?variant=10575897362475

Option 2). ScooterCentre have a listing, for 'Piaggio' FPM/FKM 31x62.1x5.8/4.3 seals. 'Viton' is a DuPont trade name for FPMFKM; I checked. But, bless 'em, the image shows a rubber-edged seal, but the listing lists engines for which a metal edged seal would be correct (those without the groove that causes the problems). I've messaged SC for clarification, and had a reply from either the tea boy or cleaning lady all about rear hub seals (something got lost in translation) so I've tried again, and am waiting for a better reply. Here's that link (see 3rd image):

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/oil-seal-set-engine-piaggio-vespa-px80-px125-px150-px200-efl-t5-125cc-cosa-external-rear-hub-oil-seal-3820013

Option 3. Ask this forum:
Anyone heard of Gufero?
Anyone got any other sources (UK/Europe) for 'Viton' (FPM/FKM) Rubber-edged 31x62.1x5.8/4.3 seals?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1816
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm quote
The black one from Piaggio is definitely not a Viton seal. It's crap. Personally I only use the metal ones from Corteco, even on the old cases. Loctite 603 and the tool I made. I've never had one fail or pop out...
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1816
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:22 pm quote
Gufero is a Czech company. The set from Beedspeed is basically from RMS which uses Gufero as their supplier...
Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Cornwall UK
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:10 am quote
Thanks SaFis; I've seen your work and value your opinion.
I do think If i can't find what I'm after, I'll use one of my last Rolf ones though.
Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Cornwall UK
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:40 am quote
Just to polish this thread off; I recently noticed BGM now do a 31x62x5.8/4.3 Rubber/Metal Viton seal. I've just bought a couple to replace the Rolf one I took from my spares for my last engine build; hopefully won't need to know if they're any good for quite a while though, but glad someone's making them again.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/oil-seal-31x62-1x5-8/4-3mm-bgm-original-fkm/viton-e10/etahnol-resistant-rubber-brown-used-for-crankshaft-drive-side-vespa-px-1984-rally180-vsd1t-rally200-vse1t-sprint-veloce-150-vlb1t-294260-super150-vbc1t-412374-ts-vnl3t-bgm1004?number=BGM1004
Hooked
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 347
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:16 am quote
sime66 wrote:
Just to polish this thread off; I recently noticed BGM now do a 31x62x5.8/4.3 Rubber/Metal Viton seal. I've just bought a couple to replace the Rolf one I took from my spares for my last engine build; hopefully won't need to know if they're any good for quite a while though, but glad someone's making them again.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/oil-seal-31x62-1x5-8/4-3mm-bgm-original-fkm/viton-e10/etahnol-resistant-rubber-brown-used-for-crankshaft-drive-side-vespa-px-1984-rally180-vsd1t-rally200-vse1t-sprint-veloce-150-vlb1t-294260-super150-vbc1t-412374-ts-vnl3t-bgm1004?number=BGM1004
I'm not sure how you are storing these, if they do have rubber in them, you can extend the shelf life by over 100% by storing them in a container that won't deform the rubber and in a refrigerator. The lower temperature and humidity extend the life of the rubber. My wife just shakes her had when she opens the crisper and pulls out my sealed bowl that has rubber seal salad in it.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7512
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:32 am quote
Having a crank or some bearings in the freezer is usually okay, but boiling a crank inner race on the stove always gets my old lady up about shit. especially because I’ll have all my tools on the counter.

For the most part chorizo tacos, some homemade verde, cartoons and foot rubs usually quell the beast.

The biggest sin is when you throw your nasty, oil soaked and foul gas smelling work clothes on top of the yoga pants or nice sweaters.

That’s like flowers and a fancy date night levels of apology.

-g
Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 175
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:58 am quote
i utlise these seals and have had good success with them

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/oil+seal+crankshaft+clutch_13110200

are you suggesting that they will breakdown with exposure to UK fuels?

If that the case i had better call a good few back in to replace
Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Cornwall UK
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:28 am quote
Gravelrash2004 wrote:
are you suggesting that they will breakdown with exposure to UK fuels?
…....

https://scooterlab.uk/high-ethanol-content-fuel-will-it-kill-my-scooter-opinion/

The Viton seals for older 'P' engines have been quite hard to find, hence my question a few months ago when doing last build, and my update when I saw BGM were now doing them.

Also might want to think about fly-side seal, fuel line, carb float needle (red, not black) and fuel tap washer; maybe other items if anyone wants to chip in.

Incidentally, re previous point concerning storage/shelf life of Viton parts; I checked, and it seems my small stash of Viton spares have a longer expected shelf-life than me, so not something I'm worried about too much:

Elastomer Shelf Life.jpg

Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 175
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:56 am quote
thankyou


so not as immediate a concern as i originally envisaged.


I will be using VITON or ethanol resistant seals in my rebuilds from now
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1811
Location: London UK
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:11 am quote
Nice to know. Unlimited is quite a long time. I wonder if a future archeologist will ever wonder what they are.
Hooked
GS160
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 280
Location: Åland
Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:31 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Nice to know. Unlimited is quite a long time. I wonder if a future archeologist will ever wonder what they are.
"Aha!! A Viton seal! Musta been a Vespa in this spot!"
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   Scooter Parts Company
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