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I bought my 8th Vespa two years ago, a 2016 GTS300ie Super. I have never had problems like this over the previous 60 years of Vespa riding.

First, starting later last year, was a stutter/misfire when cruising around 100 kph. I am aware of two Americans and three Germans who have had the same problem. The only cure is to replace the ECU and throttle body, at a cost of around $AU800. That was done and the problem solved.

Now I have a problem with the starter. The starter motor turns but doesn't engage the crankshaft. The cause is a crap sprag clutch, made in China. My scooter has been in a repair shop for two weeks, and will be there for another two waiting for a part from Germany. The previous model sprag clutch was a much better construction, but unfortunately doesn't fit.

My previous Vespas were all extremely reliable. My current one is crap!.
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Headings like this always catch my attention.

So Vespa put out a part for tender for production made to their spec.

In this instance a Chinese company gets the bid, producing exactly what Vespa or should it be (Italy) have asked for.

A part fails in this instance on your Vespa and the entire nation gets the blame.

If any nation is to blame its Italy, it's their specifications, their quality control, their parts.

But again how the heck can millions be randomly blamed for a few people's descission in an office god knows where.
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So according to you we cannot claim that German products, for example, are better quality than Indian/Chinese/etc because that condemns a whole nation!
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I am saying to you that you cannot blame a nation for what the original producer (Vespa) or (Italy by your ethos) allows on their scooters in this instance.

I'm sure those parts where made to what Vespa or Italy had dictated, not some dreamt up spec of their own, which is essentially what your saying they do.
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Popcorn emoticon
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Bill's take on this is quite right. I have experienced for myself the discrepancies between the drawn and written in-house specification and the actual in-house production. The vehicle manufacturer I worked for in the 1970s/80s had an agreement with a Spanish company allowing them to manufacture engines to the parent companies specifications. The managers of the parent company naively believed that the design departments drawings were a true reflection of what was manufactured and assembled in the UK. The reality was very different because the production engineers in the UK continuously improved the product by making changes both to components and to assembly methods. This had happened over years if not decades even to the extent that the production engineers had their own sets of drawings which were used in place of the original design drawings. So when the Spanish factories built to the spec. given the engines just didn't work properly. So in turn the designs were modified in Spain and they actually did change their drawings to documents these changes.

When the Spanish engines were then dissected in the UK the changes were discovered. In many respects the 'foreign' modifications were genuine improvements at least 50% of the time!

Conclusion: When a long established company goes for major outsourcing of its designs there are very serious consequences if communication is anything less than open, honest, and comprehensive.
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The sprag clutch in my GTS300 had only three rollers doing all the work. An earlier GTS model had eight. So did Piaggio send China a poorer design or did they just look for one that was cheaper?

Either way, my scooter had two crappy components and is not up to the standard of my previous seven Vespas. Is it just coincidence that this has happened when Piaggio started buying components from China? Many components have been outsourced in the past, particularly electrical components, but my mechanic assures me that this sprag clutch came from China..
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Either way it's Piaggio's fault, poorer design of their own or cheaper option which maybe has a poorer design.

Honestly you make chuckle, blaming a nation for your clutch failure.

You'd better go and throw away most of your kitchen utensils, bedding, towels, TV well the lot really as most of it is clearly gonna be inferior.

I'll tell my wife too she's in trouble, and the kids though they're only half to blame.
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Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
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Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Haha... Thanks for clarifying. As I was reading your post, I thought to myself, "Wow, I wonder if this poster really believes this horse crap."
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I believe lemons are not sensitive to the earths magnetic field and can flourish in both Italy and China.
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Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Ah, sarcasm. Gets me in trouble all the time as well. In all honesty some people just don't get it.

QC comes down to the parent company and how it monitors its outsourced factories. Not to mention the company they outsource to. Apple for instance has been "Designing" its products in California but having them manufactured in China for the most part. Largely by Foxconn I believe though elsewhere such as using screens from LG and others. I have no problem with my BMW bike's ending being made by Kymco as I trust BMW to monitor the assembly and having picked the best supplier. Apparently the bike and everything else is done in Germany but they deferred the engine to a company that has more experience with CVT transmissions and in a market where scoots get beat in to the ground in real world testing.

One problem with Italian made components is the summer shutdown. I've been told during certain months getting anything from Italy can be a real challenge. Here in Canada the starting vacation is 2 weeks and if you are lucky and have been somewhere for a LONG time you maybe get 4. The US is even worse as they do not have maternity leave. Not sure about China but I'm guessing time off isn't exactly a huge priority and labour laws a fair bit different than say in Europe.
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There are Chinese made Kymcos, and Taiwanese made Kymcos. Always wished my Kymco scoot was a model made in Taiwan. ....but it is assembled in Chinese Kymco plant.
And has been a great scooter for 5yrs to date. Just dump the crap Kenda tires for City Grips and all is good.
I imagine your BMW/Kymco parts are from Taiwan ( the new Japan?!)
O.S.
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OldSchooot wrote:
There are Chinese made Kymcos, and Taiwanese made Kymcos. Always wished my Kymco scoot was a model made in Taiwan. ....but it is assembled in Chinese Kymco plant.
And has been a great scooter for 5yrs to date. Just dump the crap Kenda tires for City Grips and all is good.
I imagine your BMW/Kymco parts are from Taiwan ( the new Japan?!)
O.S.
Yup, Taiwan and it runs great. For 2016 and forward they tweaked the engine so my 2017 has the new build.
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Inferior pot-metal from recycled eletronics and other low quality scrap?
Japan once turned out some real trash ,now I consider Japanese Seki steel some of the worls's best. Knives, eyewear from Japan are first rate.
Imo I would take Taiwan manufacture over mainland China on most products.
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"Crap Vespas made in China!" ?

Ah, I don't believe any Vespas are assembled in China. There is a Vespa assembly plant in VietNam, and more recently, one in India. I believe the point the OP is actually trying to make is that Vespas use some components made in China. The trouble with that observation is that EVERY vehicle recently assembled anywhere on this Earth uses some components made in China. One hopes all manufacturers buying third party components exercise due diligence with components specs and quality control. Unfortunately sometimes price plays a little too large a role in procurement.
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Mike Holland wrote:
So according to you we cannot claim that German products, for example, are better quality than Indian/Chinese/etc because that condemns a whole nation!
To be clear, there are crap products made in every country in the world and high quality products made there as well. China produces products to specifications from a manufacturer. Things made in China are no more inherently crappy than products made in Australia. However, as it is one of the largest producers of products in the world, it's much more likely a low quality product will come from China.

There was a time when Japan, Mexico, Thailand, Korea and other countries (Vietnam and China presently) have been low cost producers. These countries allow manufacturers to bring production in at a lower cost because the labor rates are low and typically, the government is encouraging new business (reducing taxes, legal pitfalls, etc.). The product quality HAS NOTHING to do with these factors. Lower cost does not equal lower production value.

Where the low quality comes from is the purchaser seeking out a lower cost item to replace a higher quality item. Quality does cost more to produce in most cases and in an effort to save money, a manufacturer will cut corners by asking part manufacturers for a lower price. In turn, the part maker will cut corners while trying to keep as high quality as possible. These things happen REGARDLESS of the location of the manufacturing facility.

Some of lowest quality products ever have been produced in England, the USA, and other western countries. Think early Jaguars, Chevrolets, etc. There is no question that some nations have a good reputation for producing high quality but that's more likely related to brands you equate with those countries than actual reality. I am 100% confident that Germans have companies making crap products too.

Quality level is solely dictated by the purchaser, local regulations, and other factors. For example, I wouldn't think of eating crappy McDonald's food here in the US because it's microwaved garbage. However, France has very specific rules about food preparation, meat quality, etc. When I lived in France, I tried McDonald's and it actually produced a quality hamburger.

So...yes it is wrong to wholesale call out a single country for quality issues.
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OldSchooot wrote:
I imagine your BMW/Kymco parts are from Taiwan ( the new Japan?!)
O.S.
as a R.O.C.-born piaggio rider, who drooled over gogoro bikes all over Taipei during the last 2 trips, I approve of this message. Otherwise, wow, so much Popcorn emoticon here.
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I thought Thursday was casual racism day?
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vorsprung durch technik
You often hear people raving about German efficiency and quality but hardly ever hear about the gastarbeiter on minimum wage in the factories doing all the grafting. We live in a world where people from everywhere are involved in the development of the things we buy so it is kinda pointless to start picking out specific nations.
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
johnymoore wrote:
You often hear people raving about German efficiency and quality but hardly ever hear about the gastarbeiter on minimum wage in the factories doing all the grafting. We live in a world where people from everywhere are involved in the development of the things we buy so it is kinda pointless to start picking out specific nations.
Personally I find the output capacity of the factories in Monaco disappointing...
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China isn't the problem, Piaggio is getting parts made at a low price point to compete with other manufactures.

You can have the best design in the world and it'll still be junk when built with low quality parts. Tao Tao's are the perfect example.
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OldSchooot wrote:
There are Chinese made Kymcos, and Taiwanese made Kymcos. Always wished my Kymco scoot was a model made in Taiwan. ....but it is assembled in Chinese Kymco plant.
And has been a great scooter for 5yrs to date. Just dump the crap Kenda tires for City Grips and all is good.
I imagine your BMW/Kymco parts are from Taiwan ( the new Japan?!)
O.S.
I have two PGO scoots made in Taiwan and they are fantastic. I do long for the new engine tech of Yama and Honda but they are still great scoots.

As far as bashing China because of Vespa's laziness......F that.....this falls on Vespa and they better stop relying on name recognition to sell their product.
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
johnymoore wrote:
You often hear people raving about German efficiency and quality but hardly ever hear about the gastarbeiter on minimum wage in the factories doing all the grafting. We live in a world where people from everywhere are involved in the development of the things we buy so it is kinda pointless to start picking out specific nations.
Exactly. The modern manufacturing plant sources parts from around the globe and parts are purchased to meet the specs, pricing, and quality requirements of those manufacturers. Very little of what we buy is made in one plant by one company creating all the parts. It's just not cost effective or practical. Moreover, firms developing some parts can do it cheaper and better.

As the OP is in Sydney, it's possible the Vespa was made in Vietnam or India. It could be Italian but I doubt it because I met the owner of the Italian spring factory that produces the springs for Piaggio. Still, that would be based upon from whom or where it was purchased. I am not certain there are any Chinese parts in an Italian bike but again, as I have said before, I don't care as long as they meet Piaggio spec and work.

Trotter...Vespa isn't relying upon their name any more than BMW or Mercedes or any other manufacturer. In fact, quite the opposite. They depend on their suppliers to deliver product that meets up to the name they have built. They give a spec, the part maker delivers on that spec. If the part failed, I can bet you Piaggio would be interested in knowing and would likely want to see the failed part so they can correct the issue. They don't want your scooter to fail any more than any other company wants to see their product stop working.
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
Paddlenround wrote:
Trotter...Vespa isn't relying upon their name any more than BMW or Mercedes or any other manufacturer. In fact, quite the opposite. They depend on their suppliers to deliver product that meets up to the name they have built. They give a spec, the part maker delivers on that spec. If the part failed, I can bet you Piaggio would be interested in knowing and would likely want to see the failed part so they can correct the issue. They don't want your scooter to fail any more than any other company wants to see their product stop working.
Wrong. It's numbers. They realize that the INFERIOR part such as the clutch part the OP is complaining about won't fail enough to stop sales or cost the dealers that much. Not that Piaggio cares about dealers in the U.S. or Sydney for that matter. You saying they don't want parts to fail has a caveat.....they don't want parts to fail that cost them money and/or damage their brand.
⚠️ Last edited by Trotter on UTC; edited 1 time
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
Trotter wrote:
ii
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
Paddlenround wrote:
Trotter wrote:
ii
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Scroll up fella.
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Re: Crap Vespas made in China!
Mike Holland wrote:
I bought my 8th Vespa two years ago, a 2016 GTS300ie Super. I have never had problems like this over the previous 60 years of Vespa riding.

First, starting later last year, was a stutter/misfire when cruising around 100 kph. I am aware of two Americans and three Germans who have had the same problem. The only cure is to replace the ECU and throttle body, at a cost of around $AU800. That was done and the problem solved.

Now I have a problem with the starter. The starter motor turns but doesn't engage the crankshaft. The cause is a crap sprag clutch, made in China. My scooter has been in a repair shop for two weeks, and will be there for another two waiting for a part from Germany. The previous model sprag clutch was a much better construction, but unfortunately doesn't fit.

My previous Vespas were all extremely reliable. My current one is crap!.
Sorry to hear this Mike, but I honestly think you've just been unlucky. Not heard of any intrinsic problems with the starter sprags. Mines a late 2016 GTS and so far not a single issue aside from a minor coolant weep from an underfloor hose coupling. A group of us all bought 2016 brand new GTS bikes together from the same dealer and again there are no issues. At least you are on top of the problems and hopefully you've seen the last of them.
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Harbinger wrote:
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Ah, sarcasm. Gets me in trouble all the time as well. In all honesty some people just don't get it.

QC comes down to the parent company and how it monitors its outsourced factories. Not to mention the company they outsource to. Apple for instance has been "Designing" its products in California but having them manufactured in China for the most part. Largely by Foxconn I believe though elsewhere such as using screens from LG and others. I have no problem with my BMW bike's ending being made by Kymco as I trust BMW to monitor the assembly and having picked the best supplier. Apparently the bike and everything else is done in Germany but they deferred the engine to a company that has more experience with CVT transmissions and in a market where scoots get beat in to the ground in real world testing.

One problem with Italian made components is the summer shutdown. I've been told during certain months getting anything from Italy can be a real challenge. Here in Canada the starting vacation is 2 weeks and if you are lucky and have been somewhere for a LONG time you maybe get 4. The US is even worse as they do not have maternity leave. Not sure about China but I'm guessing time off isn't exactly a huge priority and labour laws a fair bit different than say in Europe.
Interestingly, BMW C series maxi scoots have had considerable problems in 'urop' and the States especially in the early days. This resullted in many new engines having to be supplied under warranty as BMW could not fix the valve, camchain, camshaft and transmission problems. Mostly sorted now. These problems were caused by BMW ignoring Kymco's advice to re-spec the engine top end and transmission components. After considerable trouble with the engines BMW was forced to concede that Kymco was right and now their engines are produced to Kymco's own (better) standards.
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Re: vorsprung durch technik
Trotter wrote:
Paddlenround wrote:
Trotter...Vespa isn't relying upon their name any more than BMW or Mercedes or any other manufacturer. In fact, quite the opposite. They depend on their suppliers to deliver product that meets up to the name they have built. They give a spec, the part maker delivers on that spec. If the part failed, I can bet you Piaggio would be interested in knowing and would likely want to see the failed part so they can correct the issue. They don't want your scooter to fail any more than any other company wants to see their product stop working.
Wrong. It's numbers. They realize that the INFERIOR part such as the clutch part the OP is complaining about won't fail enough to stop sales or cost the dealers that much. Not that Piaggio cares about dealers in the U.S. or Sydney for that matter. You saying they don't want parts to fail has a caveat.....they don't want parts to fail that cost them money and/or damage their brand.
That's conspiracy theory horseshit. Sure, they do make cost estimates and work with failure rates just like any business. But to think Piaggio purchases parts purely to boost the bottom line without a thought to quality, reputation, or the customer is completely foolish. They have been a brand that has existed for 70 years and they charge a premium for their product. Knowingly accepting part failure is criminal.

Also, while Piaggio doesn't invest heavily in US dealers, it's not because they don't care about their product. It's simply a question of revenue and resources. They sold close to half a billion units worldwide in 2017. The US represents less than 3% of those sales. In fact, Piaggio bundled the US with EMEA numbers because if they placed it in it's own region, it would not be financially viable for them to keep selling product here. Motorcycle sales are in steep decline and scooter sales represent an even smaller segment of this.

http://www.livingwithgravity.com/motorcycle-market-analysis/

http://www.piaggiogroup.com/en/investor/financial-data/results-type-product

Piaggio isn't GM. On a personal note, I had an issue with my bike last year and even though it's a 2013, the Vice President of Piaggio USA called me to ensure the solution to my issue was resolved. That doesn't seem like a company who doesn't give a shit and only wants a cost/benefit analysis.
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
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UTC quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Kevin, I'm an engineer and we all learned this well known stuff about magnetism at Uni on our course. Everyone knows you're right! The only thing I would add is that we now know it also depends how close the metalworks factory is to the poles. The closer to the poles, nth of sth, increases alignment of the molecules leading to a stronger metal!!! That's why metal components made at factories on the equator have the properties of plastercine.
OP
@mike_holland avatar
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GTS300 Super 2015 Blue, GTS300 Super 2023 Beige
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Thanks, Stromrider. It is nice to get a little sympathy around here. I have been having a bad time, and being without my scooter for a month is hitting me hard. It is my main escape.

The motorcyclists that I hang around with say that Harleys made in China are inferior, lousy chrome and thin paint, but I haven't been able to find any supporting info on Google.

I'm sure Vespa do not send out detailed specifications for outsourcing components. They just ask for something that will do the job. The ECU/throttle body was not designed for a Vespa. It has so much additional function that Vespa does not use, as you discover if you fit a SIP speedo. Similarly the Vespa alarm was deigned for motorcycles, not Vespas, and also has a lot of unused function. So Piaggio just send out a requirement, not details on how to fill it.

Now if I had said my scooter was assembled on a Friday, would that have been an insult to all people born on a Friday?
@baba12 avatar
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Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa 300 GTS Touring
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2018 Vespa 300 GTS Touring
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UTC quote
Made in China doesn't necessarily mean bad quality.
Remember capitalism is about maximizing profits at all costs. Major brands in their need to maximize their profits have moved their manufacturing to lower cost production centers and or also source components that are cheaper possibly while maintaining the profit margins they wish to keep.
In the course of doing so, manufacturers will ask suppliers to provide a given part for a price, suppliers to deliver on that price will produce a shoddy part if necessary so as to maintain their own profit margins. But in this entire process the onus and responsibility of quality control lies with the Brand and what they are willing to accept and or settle for.
Brands like Piaggio have several suppliers for the same part possibly and they have done all the various calculations/risk analysis to come to accept what they can deal with. A few bad products isn't going to make them loose market share nor will it make a significant dent on their bottom line.
You can clearly see in the case of VW their shenanigans that continued for over a decade hasn't really done much to damage their brand and or their bottom line.
Sadly the consumer is to blame for having a lack of resistance to crap but then again many of the consumers are shareholders in many of these brands through their pension plans and 401k plans etc and thereby it affects them if and when companies may do the right thing.
I think it would not be fair to blame a nation for some crappy product that was made to the specifications and requirements of the brand that you "trust".
As others have pointed out ultimately it is the Brand that has to take ownership of selling a crappy product/service.
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Now Mike, the Friday thing would not have been an issue no, but the ingrained Chinese blah blah blah was.
Just like here in the UK people have this thing about the French, and then you say oh wow why do you not like the French then, and they go oow errr not sure my parents used to say that.

Plus my wife is Chinese (British upbringing) so I get a bit upperty when I hear that same old same old.

Hope that clarify's it a little
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UTC quote
Mike Holland wrote:
Thanks, Stromrider. It is nice to get a little sympathy around here. I have been having a bad time, and being without my scooter for a month is hitting me hard. It is my main escape.

The motorcyclists that I hang around with say that Harleys made in China are inferior, lousy chrome and thin paint, but I haven't been able to find any supporting info on Google.

I'm sure Vespa do not send out detailed specifications for outsourcing components. They just ask for something that will do the job. The ECU/throttle body was not designed for a Vespa. It has so much additional function that Vespa does not use, as you discover if you fit a SIP speedo. Similarly the Vespa alarm was deigned for motorcycles, not Vespas, and also has a lot of unused function. So Piaggio just send out a requirement, not details on how to fill it.
Mike, I don't doubt the Piaggio leverages a lot of their other business units in designing Vespas. Remember, the also own Moto Guzzi, Scarabeo, Aprilia, Gilera, Derbi, as well as their own Piaggio branded bikes. You ever drive an Audi and a VW? They use a ton of the same parts and tech. It's normal.

I understand you are upset and frustrated but I have been in manufacturing quality for over 20 years and you couldn't be more wrong. ANY manufacturer at the level of sophistication like Piaggio engineers every damn millimeter of that bike. They may source standard parts (like light bulbs) but when they order a part, it has a spec and BOM (bill of materials). You just got unlucky and received a defective part. It happens. I work in electronic components when we we'd do testing, even the most rock solid, reliable part manufacturer would deliver a bad one once in a rare while. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.
Mike Holland wrote:
Now if I had said my scooter was assembled on a Friday, would that have been an insult to all people born on a Friday?
Probably not. BUT, calling out a whole group because you got something bad from one segment of it isn't a good idea ever. Still, I was born on Tuesday so I am cool with you hating on Friday people.

Laughing emoticon
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UTC quote
Mike, I sympathize. Not sure I could go a month without riding my Vespa!

Been working mine hard recently. Had lots of miles to do, heavily loaded with a lot of my worshop tools. Covered over 200 miles today visiting folks (ex-customers) who are experiencing issues with their engines. I used to be (as part of my job) a forensic engineer. So I've been engaged to find out why some folks are having issues with their car engines. I'm actually early retired, but thought what the heck. It's just a couple of weeks riding my bike and doing the stuff. The weather over here at the moment is simply gorgeous so using the bike is so convenient even with my topbox and back pack on. Pleased to report the massive extra weight I was carrying today didn't detract from me throwing it around the country roads, or from blasting past slower moving cars. I seriously hope you get yours back on the road asap!
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Kevin, I'm an engineer and we all learned this well known stuff about magnetism at Uni on our course. Everyone knows you're right! The only thing I would add is that we now know it also depends how close the metalworks factory is to the poles. The closer to the poles, nth of sth, increases alignment of the molecules leading to a stronger metal!!! That's why metal components made at factories on the equator have the properties of plastercine.
Your ignorance is showing Strom( I know you can't help it, being from England and all ). The best metal comes from the equator because they don't suffer from the Coriolis force while setting. You'll notice your Vespa pulls to the left a little? That wouldn't happen if the conrod was forged in Ecuador.
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Kevin, I'm an engineer and we all learned this well known stuff about magnetism at Uni on our course. Everyone knows you're right! The only thing I would add is that we now know it also depends how close the metalworks factory is to the poles. The closer to the poles, nth of sth, increases alignment of the molecules leading to a stronger metal!!! That's why metal components made at factories on the equator have the properties of plastercine.
Your ignorance is showing Strom( I know you can't help it, being from England and all ). The best metal comes from the equator because they don't suffer from the Coriolis force while setting. You'll notice your Vespa pulls to the left a little? That wouldn't happen if the conrod was forged in Ecuador.
Znomit, I'm so glad you posted this info. I've just replaced the under head exhaust wheel to try to cure the pull to the left. It of course had no effect. Had I known your information I'd have changed the Conrod for an Ecuadorian one! I'll order one straight away...thanks!
@madison_sully avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
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@madison_sully avatar
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
znomit wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Kevin, I'm an engineer and we all learned this well known stuff about magnetism at Uni on our course. Everyone knows you're right! The only thing I would add is that we now know it also depends how close the metalworks factory is to the poles. The closer to the poles, nth of sth, increases alignment of the molecules leading to a stronger metal!!! That's why metal components made at factories on the equator have the properties of plastercine.
Your ignorance is showing Strom( I know you can't help it, being from England and all ). The best metal comes from the equator because they don't suffer from the Coriolis force while setting. You'll notice your Vespa pulls to the left a little? That wouldn't happen if the conrod was forged in Ecuador.
Znomit, I'm so glad you posted this info. I've just replaced the under head exhaust wheel to try to cure the pull to the left. It of course had no effect. Had I known your information I'd have changed the Conrod for an Ecuadorian one! I'll order one straight away...thanks!
Yet another reason for accurate Country of Origin markings!!
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
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@znomit avatar
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UTC quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
znomit wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
Kevin Harrell wrote:
Metal parts made in China will always be inferior. It is a result of the earths magnetic field being slightly weaker in China. This weakness in the magnetic field keeps the metallic particles from lining up properly during the manufacturing process, causing inferior metallic parts.

A similar but opposite effect is found in Europe. The Alpine mountains contain metallic deposits that concentrate the earths magnetic field, and this causes metallic parts made in parts of Europe to have properly lined up metallic particles. So, Swiss watches are superior due to their closeness to the Alpine mountains. The effect of the Alpine mountains extends into Germany and Italy.

(Please note that the forgoing is deliberately stupid in an attempt to be funny. The last time I tried writing something deliberately stupid to try to be funny people took me seriously, and it was not pretty.)
Kevin, I'm an engineer and we all learned this well known stuff about magnetism at Uni on our course. Everyone knows you're right! The only thing I would add is that we now know it also depends how close the metalworks factory is to the poles. The closer to the poles, nth of sth, increases alignment of the molecules leading to a stronger metal!!! That's why metal components made at factories on the equator have the properties of plastercine.
Your ignorance is showing Strom( I know you can't help it, being from England and all ). The best metal comes from the equator because they don't suffer from the Coriolis force while setting. You'll notice your Vespa pulls to the left a little? That wouldn't happen if the conrod was forged in Ecuador.
Znomit, I'm so glad you posted this info. I've just replaced the under head exhaust wheel to try to cure the pull to the left. It of course had no effect. Had I known your information I'd have changed the Conrod for an Ecuadorian one! I'll order one straight away...thanks!
Yet another reason for accurate Country of Origin markings!!
A little latitude is all thats required.
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