Bogging at first 1/4 throttle [SOLVED with new motor]
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:50 am quote
SIP claims this is a factory built engine, not an ebay slapped together with parts off the shelf POS.

Has anyone bought one of these? note the vintage style kick start.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:53 am quote
Decided to spring for a p200e engine from Olympia Scooter Company. Was given a 10% discount and a free standard exhaust. This is more than I wanted to spend but their willingness to change the carb out to a premix carb, swapping out the selector box to one with no neutral switch, the 10% off and free exhaust were what did it for me. in the long run I think it will be the best decision.

I'll be parting out my old LML 150. Good clutch, (i have 2 sets of new plates also) shifts great, only 700 miles on it. Runs like garbage from takeoff, ignition cuts out at 48mph but between 5mph and 48mph it does great. its a 5 port reed valve motor. Crank is shit, stator is questionable.

if you need a part or want the whole thing let me know.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:59 am quote
So I got the old trash LML engine out (forgot to take pictures) and sold off, waiting for the new P200E to come and i'm already feeling uneasy about it.

UPS tracking number has not shown a single update since the 14th. Was supposed to be here yesterday and nothing. UPS tracking stills shows yesterday as arrival date.

This is not off to a good start.



Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:49 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
This is not off to a good start.
Wait until you try to install with your current electrical setup. I wonder if the good ole boys at Olympia Beer Company made it easy for you to install in your Stella. For $2k they probably should. It's not very hard if you know what you're doing.. unlike me.

Good luck.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am quote
rowdyc wrote:
Tradspa wrote:
This is not off to a good start.
Wait until you try to install with your current electrical setup. I wonder if the good ole boys at Olympia Beer Company made it easy for you to install in your Stella. For $2k they probably should. It's not very hard if you know what you're doing.. unlike me.

Good luck.
Bike has PX wire harness in it, PX150 motor went in no problem. But you're probably right, nothing has gone well with this project so far and it appears its still cursed.

UPS apparently lost new motor, I might see it someday, might not.
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2147
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:47 am quote
A P200 motor seems to usually go for about $800 to $1,200. They're just hard to find.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:52 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
A P200 motor seems to usually go for about $800 to $1,200. They're just hard to find.


https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/mpo/d/miami-piaggio-vespa-200cc-px-stella/6842996807.html $1200

They come up often but not a lot. It just seems not at the time when people think they want one. Patience is a virtue.

Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:31 am quote
So now I feel even worse. Scooter Mercato sent me this, so now i'll always have regrets no matter what happens with my *lost* motor because THIS is exactly what I wanted.

Its hard to be patient this year after everything I went through last summer with that trash LML motor and two bodge SEA pieces of shit the summer before that. The first day of spring was Wednesday, I was planning to install lost motor today.

As for the used motor posted above, I no longer buy LML motors or any used ones whatsoever, I can't even get a supposedly expertly beautifully rebuilt one sent to me right and the past 3 motors (one 'new' two used) I have had were nothing but lies.

The 'new' one was trash, one used one the clutch came apart with it running and the other used one, it shifted like a blender with ice in it.

How do you guys find beautifully running used motors that turn out to be what you were told? I'm not that lucky.

So far with regards to classic vespa I have been nothing but ripped off.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:06 am quote
I guess dont drop anything worth more than $1000 off a UPS retail location because people steal...and it appears my $2000 engine was stolen.

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Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:14 am quote
Man, I really hate to hear that.

The good ole boys at Olympia Beer Company did not insure a motor they priced at $2k? Seems cheap to me if they didn't. Also not aware of shipping standards and they run a mail order business. Have you've noticed not many band wagoners for this company. BTW, they don't have any well known history of building motors. I'm not aware of any history of this company. All I know, they got parts to sell. They did have a GS160 for sale but it wasn't running and they did not or could not get it running but wanted $6k for it. Getting a motor from them is almost like getting a motor off craigslist. It could be good or it could be bad.

Get ready for excuses and a bunch of "my friend" and "buddy" after each sentence.

I really hope it shows up.

Good luck!
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:28 am quote
rowdyc wrote:
Get ready for excuses and a bunch of "my friend" and "buddy" after each sentence.

I really hope it shows up.

Good luck!
It's in paypals hands now. No hard feelings with Matt at Olympia, it's just business.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:31 am quote
The next engine I buy I want to see a VIDEO of it running first and a video of it dropped off at the UPS warehouse and not a retail location, fully insured with signature confirmation and a GPS tracker in the fu*king box and bloodhounds running behind the truck it gets loaded onto, i'll feed and water the dogs when the motor shows up.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:40 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
The next engine I buy I want to see a VIDEO of it running first and a video of it dropped off at the UPS warehouse and not a retail location, fully insured with signature confirmation and a GPS tracker in the fu*king box and bloodhounds running behind the truck it gets loaded onto, i'll feed and water the dogs when the motor shows up.
That would be great but not necessary. If you need another motor get one from someone that knows what their doing in shipping and building motors, have a history, and more concerned about doing good business then making a boat load of money from each transaction. Now it seems like you have a very good source for a quality engine.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:04 am quote
So to recap my classic vespa engine experience thus far over the past 2 years:

Engine #1: Bad clutch (came apart with engine running) crankshaft and case inseparable (rotary pad repair and crankshaft machining made case and crank a matched set). Wasted flywheel side crank threads.

Engine #2: Clutch shudder very badly, throw-out 'bearing' cockeyed, worn down to nothing. Crunchy gearbox.

Engine #3: LML with a bent crank.

Engine #4: $2000 P200E stolen from UPS Portland.

Last edited by Tradspa on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:51 pm quote
He seems to think there is a snowballs chance in hell of ever finding that uninsured $2000 motor after nobody has seen it for a week. That sucker is long gone. Traded for meth or who knows what.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:10 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
a bunch of "my friend" and "buddy" after each sentence.

How did you know?
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2147
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:00 pm quote
The question is less about "where do we find good, running motors" than "where do we find piles of parts that can be (re-)assembled into good, running motors?"

Most of us who are buying motors without accompanying scooters tend to tear them down and, at a minimum, give them a good once-over before putting them into a bike. The cost of cases, gears, clutch cover, axle, etc. if you were to buy parts far exceeds the cost of a motor. Never mind the parts we usually think of, like a crank, top end, carb, airbox or reed manifold, kickstart lever, etc.

I've seen some P200 motors go by that either had go-fast parts already on them, or were bargain-basement priced, but I didn't act, and I kick myself in hindsight for not grabbing them. It's like rowdyc said, though, patience is a virtue in this game.

To be honest, I'd much rather find a motor in need of work that I can get for cheap, because odds are, I'm going to replace a bunch of it anyway. That's obviously not everyone's goal, though.

As to what happened to your $2,000 motor...the odds that a 2x2x2' box (assuming it's not a full-on crate) that weighs over a hundred pounds would just walk off seems rather unlikely to me. I'd love to see the security camera footage from that UPS store, because having wrestled a boxed motor around, I can tell you it's a serious bitch. It's not Jim Anchower stealing meat by stuffing it in his pants.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:18 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
A P200 motor seems to usually go for about $800 to $1,200. They're just hard to find.


https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/mpo/d/miami-piaggio-vespa-200cc-px-stella/6842996807.html $1200

They come up often but not a lot. It just seems not at the time when people think they want one. Patience is a virtue.

The listing states

" Engine built on Pinasco master engine case. "

Haven't I been hearing bad things about those?
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:30 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
As to what happened to your $2,000 motor...the odds that a 2x2x2' box (assuming it's not a full-on crate) that weighs over a hundred pounds would just walk off seems rather unlikely to me.
Seems an unlikely size and weight to just lose as well, but nobody knows where it is. Good thought about the security camera, I would like to see that also.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:56 pm quote
Tradspa wrote:
rowdyc wrote:
a bunch of "my friend" and "buddy" after each sentence.

How did you know?
Because most shady people say "my friend" or "buddy" when they are trying to sell you something and they don't really know you.

Get the motor from Scooter Mercato before he post if for sale on his site. If he just post the cases for sale with out parts, they will not be there a long time. Send a picture of your wiring harness going to the motor so Matt can make it plug and play. You may need a shock extension bolt, too. Install engine when it arrives. Where a full helmet or helmet with a face guard so bugs won't get in your mouth from riding and smiling so much. A p200 motor in a old vintage is pure joy especially not having to worry about the motor for a very long time.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:48 am quote
Anything besides a flat carb box lid I need for this to work in a 65 VBB? I mean mechanically, not electrically.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:20 pm quote
Getting there. Engine is in with carb and exhaust mounted. New rear brake, clutch and throttle cable. Shifter cables look ok.

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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1210
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:21 am quote
The motor Showed up Tradespa?!?
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:43 am quote
Yes. The tracking number didnt update until the day it was delivered (Monday 3/25) . There was never an update to show it ever left Portland. UPS leaves much to be desired in their tracking sometimes.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1210
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:45 am quote
Cool. I'm glad you got the engine! I'll be following to see you get this baby on the road!
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:39 am quote
All in and ready to crank, wish me luck. Its been a long 3 years.

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Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 534
Location: California
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:52 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
All in and ready to crank, wish me luck. Its been a long 3 years.
Looking good!
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:29 pm quote
flywheel nut was loose, sheared the key, flywheel moved the stator too so now timing is out. I'm out of keys. For what I paid for this motor you'd think everything would be tight. I'm afraid of the entire thing now, what else is loose on the inside?

Any future vespa motors I buy will have to be shown on video running prior to purchase.
Hooked
1979 P200E
Joined: 01 Jan 2018
Posts: 104
Location: Houston
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:52 pm quote
Dang, that is sad to hear. Tearing it apart just to check torque specs is obnoxious. Hope you don't run into any other issues.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:15 pm quote
Octobogs wrote:
Dang, that is sad to hear. Tearing it apart just to check torque specs is obnoxious. Hope you don't run into any other issues.
After spending the past few hours on the phone i have determined that the oil injection when switching to premix MUST be blocked off or it will suck air into the carb, lean it out and make it backfire up through the carb.

A friend is sending me an aluminum plug to plug the hole off where the worm gear comes through and the passage under the injection style carb box must me plugged as well...some JB weld will work, or just use a non injected box to case gasket to block them both off that way.

Now for cleaning up the crankshaft taper. emory cloth?

I specifically paid what I paid and requested to have it converted to premix running and the only part of that they did was pull the worm gear out and that's it. Plus left the flywheel nut loose.

I'll get all this straight and see what the next calamity is going to be.

Forgive me for being edgy, its been a long 3 years and its obviously not over yet.

Last edited by Tradspa on Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:51 pm quote
the exhaust flange was mentioned to me by a friend. Its screwed all the way into the cylinder ...whats keeping the header from going up more on the flange is a lip inside the header at about the bottom of the clamp. I don't plan to run this economy exhaust long anyway, Olympia is going to owe me at least a sito plus for all this extra work on my part that i paid $2000 to have to NOT do.

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:07 pm quote
i could always dremel/air tool grind/whatever that lip down so the header will go up more i suppose but i really gorilla cranked down on the clamp ( so much so i broke the weld on the other end of the bolt and had to hold the center with NN vice grips). I dont think its going anywhere.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 am quote
Olympia scooter company emailed me this morning and they take no responsibility for the flywheel nut being left loose. He also told me "no warranty"

Yesterday on the phone he told me timing on a P200e is foolproof, just put the stator on, line up the marks and that's it, today he says the backfiring through the carb could be timing. Hows that possible if the timing is foolproof??

I'm scared of this motor now, what else was left loose?

Obviously they do not stand behind their work. Paypal case reopened.

The saga continues.

I wish I had seen this the day before I sent them nearly $2000

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Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:19 am quote
appears this engine may have the wrong flywheel on it.

this is a photo of a PX200E (VSE) flywheel. This Olympia motor is stamped VSE

The black mark shows where the keyway is on my flywheel, no wonder its backfiring through the carb and breaking keys.

My keyway lines up with this PX150 flywheel (pic 2)

Also these 2 marks are missing on mine (pic 3)

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Last edited by Tradspa on Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1210
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:40 am quote
Dude, so sorry you're having these hassles. The wrong flywheel?!? Damn....
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:54 am quote
yes they put the wrong flywheel on a $2000 motor. Now I understand why it broke the the 2nd key, the one i put in myself and i made sure to torque it tight.

Theres no telling what kind of mistakes were done on the inside of this motor too.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:08 am quote
This is a pic of a PX150 P150X flywheel which looks exactly what Olympia sent me on this PX200E motor. The red mark shows where a true PX200E keyway is and the red circle shows where the 23BTDC timing mark is supposed to be, which mine also does not have.

This motor has the wrong flywheel. Mystery solved.

vespa_ducati_flywheel_magnet_px150_p150x_contact_point_cdi_1522729518_59c2d8a8.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1210
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:24 am quote
Possibly, it could be a box of rocks, but maybe not. Get a new flywheel on there and it might be perfect! You never know...

I do hope you get it sorted and get to ride. That's where the fun is, after all.

I mean, check it out. The motor came with the wrong flywheel. Pain in the ass, yes, WTF??? Yes. But YOU figured out it's the wrong flywheel! YOU. You got this man, you can get this machine back on the road no problems.

I would suggest checking the stator to ensure it's for a P200 also and not a 150. I don't know how to do that, but I've no doubt you probably already do.

So good job to you man. Keep up the good work!
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1558
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:12 am quote
Flywheels are interchangeable. The difference is on the fins. P200s had curved fins (although they changed them to straight on the last FD models) and 125s/150s had straight fins. You can't rely on outer markings. See where the keyway is related to the pickup trigger (she photo). Other than that, these Olympia guys, from the little I've seen in here and on FB, look like a joke to me...

I hope PP pulls through and get your money back...

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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1558
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:22 am quote
This one is a points ignition flywheel that's why is different...

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