Modern Vespa

I took the rear hub and exhaust off. Mass amounts of caked on oil - 2 inches thick on top of the engine swingarm. Where did all this oil come from?

Maybe an oil leak from the oil tank somewhere in the past and driving blew it everywhere? It is literally covering everything underneath - major on the engine swingarm and everything back from there. I'm going to clean it thoroughly (I've got to get some MAF cleaner tomorrow).

Any ideas? Anybody else deal with this?

Thanks guys!


I already hit the brake area with brake cleaner briefly




Last edited by qascooter on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Scooter has restored well. Didn't think that paint would come back so good.

Engine dirt all quite usual. Its due to blow back from the carb and splooge. And these are due to at least three things, high crankcase compression, short port timing and factory pilot jet.
The first two are mechanical and can only be improved by tuning. Not recommended for your fine example. The factory 'one size fits all' jetting however can be fixed. In several EU countries they changed the stock 55/160 pilot jet for alternatives better suited to their particular fuel and climate.

My favorite that works better in any stock 200 is the 48/140 pilot jet. Less blow back, better economy and more responsive low down.

Also take into account the nearly 6,000 miles worth of 2T oil that's gone thru the motor, much of it dribbling out the muffler connection & blowing out the tailpipe. Motor's likely never been cleaned.



But what has me mystified is how clean the engine cavity inside is! Looks almost like you removed the motor, cleaned it real good then pit the filthy motor back in.



I'd expect at least some dirt from the tire up there .

I've cleaned under there twice and wiped down the wheelwell before the picture. The oil sludge stuck on all the engine parts was a bit surprising to me.

Phew couldn't imagine so dirty and so clean so together, thought I was going nuts

Nice job anyway, you can clean my wheel well anytime. Now looking forward to seeing your motor soon, when you get that greasy protective layer off of it.

Thanks Jack - Me neither! And thanks for the explanation. I've done a bunch of reading last night and am starting to understand it's the status quo - this engine has just never been cleaned. Well, I'm changing that!

About the 48/140 pilot jet - I cannot find that jet listed. Maybe a 45/140? I hunted down the jetting info thread (Thanks Voodoo for the tips and tricks thread). I understand a little better, or at least what works and why.

I'm enjoying the learning about this beautiful machine.

Bring your scooter down here and I'll do just that! Anytime! And this is a beautiful time of year on the Central Oregon Coast.

Should be able to get the 48/140 somewhere there and not need to get from Germany
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/idle+jet+si+dellorto+48140_40264814
A 45/140 could be ok but can be too small for some. Which is not good.

This jet is only one weaker but has a smoother delivery and won't spray so much un-burnt money out of the carb box and all over the street.
With the correct pilot jet the amount of sticky splooge leaking from the cylinder is greatly reduced too.

Thanks Jack - I appreciate the info and will give it a go!

No, but it certainly reinforced the appeal for Vespas. When I was a kid, I'd draw cars parked in the street. At one point, someone was parking a 1980ish PX right across from my window, so I started drawing that, and noticing strange details: that the curve in the body under the seat meant that the driver looked like he was sitting on thin air; and my imagination went wild with the little red emergency button under the seat. Did pressing it make the scooter fall apart, or did it eject the seat? Did it start the engine? I never dared touch it because I thought it would start up, drive off and crash, or retract the stand and make it fall over. Little did I know it was just the oil sight glass. I get that, but as I see them on both continents, I like seeing them in their regular culturally appropriate form. I also understand that euro lights are seen as a way to tune or personalize Vespas stateside, but from my point of view, they are instead a way of removing anything actually differentiating to make them more standard than they were; bland and boring in other words.
I also think the tractor lights are more bright than the euro ones, which as a safety feature is worth considering.. I'm not sure what role the rear light plays in preventing someone from falling off a scooter. If anything, the shape of the tractor light would likely be better suited to catch a falling passenger than the original which would snap off or just enable further sliding off of said passenger. I'd try grab rails or even a back rack instead

All fair points, happy ppl on both sides of this old argument. I just like to keep the old parts and make any changes as reversible as possible so next owner has the same choice. Of course you're right for those who wish to keep the scooter completely original, the tractor must stay! My lame attempt at humor. Still, IF she slipped off(unlikely) I was imagining continuing to slide over the Euro light, landing on feet rather than snagging on the tractor light and being flipped onto head. Overactive imagination, I know...

I have both grab rails & fanny bar plus hang-on-strap to help make sure it's unlikely. Be careful what you wish for!


Moving along, I can't wait to see this burgundy beauty fully shined up! That old paint just can't be duplicated.

The MAF sensor cleaner hasn't arrived yet, so I got after it with degreaser and various brushes/rags. I also put the exhaust in a sink of vinegar and water for an evening. - took off all the surface rust and grime. A good rinse, alcohol wipe and high heat paint, so the exhaust is ready to go. OK, who cares about the words, everyone wants the pictures! Here they are...


Painting...

Much cleaner - not perfect, but much better!

The fins were not all gunked up, which is good!

The bench where it's all taking place

Better So glad the exhaust bolt came out ok. Use regular grease when it goes back in, nothing fancy or it might react.
That metal tie on the rear brake cable shouldn't be there. It will mark the casings too. An original PX has a plastic tie round the clutch and brake cable to stop it hanging down.

Good to know - thanks! I'm pretty sure the metal strap is factory - If I recall correctly zip ties weren't around yet in 79. Easy enough to change!

And it is looking better under there for sure. Check out the wheel well. I found a bunch more grime after pulling the shock. Of course - here is a pic. Oh, and the Carbone shock bracket is 1/8" bigger than stock. I'm going to get a washer to fill it out inside.


Pretty clean up there now.

Tail section - so right there is where the holes go for the euro light - Dooohhhhh! Just kidding! :D

Old vs New

That metal tie is a good indicator of originality. I try to be careful and reuse it.

The rear bumper is often broken/cracked on one side, I think because of interference during rear tire removal/replacement.

I don't put the holding clips on the bumper to enable easy removal for tire changes. The cowls hold it in place. Removing the bumper also allows for an emergency lifting point with the bumper removed.

Notice the wear area on the brake shoes. My originals had wear on most of the surface. The replacement shoes I've used would only have wear on a fraction of the new shoe that would require a LOT of sanding/shaping to get a somewhat overall wear pattern and decent braking.

Look at your turn signal flasher. It may have a green NA sticker. IIRC, SIPE branding? That original flasher will not flash with one bulb inoperative. Solid, no flashing let's you know one of the bulbs is not. Vintage Lucas flashers are the only replacements I've found with that feature.

My wife rides a '79 P200, bought from the original owner, with an original, no repairs engine. I've had two clutch side seal failures, both from the seals being soaked with ethanol-containing fuel due to a carb needle/seat failure after forgetting to turn off the fuel tap. Nothing like a puddle of black fuel underneath the exhaust, then seal replacement time. They both had soft, swollen rubber at the bottom up to where the fuel leaked out at the crankshaft. I now use non-ethanol fuel.

Great progress. Brings back old memories of my first P200.

If that that metal tie round the engine is original, it must be another US improvement to the Italian design. Cable ties have been around since the 60s btw. Struggling to remember if there was any original fixing on the earliest P200s. In those days we had no interest in originality, just taking them to bits and going faster. Nearly 40 years later and seems like nothings changed!

Happy Independence day!

Progress - I've installed the shocks, but stripped out the 9mm nut for the lower rear shock mount. Cannot seem to buy that at the local TrueValue so I'm getting another order together.

I also took the front hub off to inspect the brakes. They look good - way more meat than the rears, so I'll order a set for the rear.

I also ordered a 22mm socket to do a proper job of tightening up the rear hub castle nut. a 7/8" kinda works, but not good enough. Might as well order a new castle nut while I'm at it - I rounded this one, just a bit.

Carburetor stuff - I took a peek and cleaned the air filter, and pulled the jets out to see what was in there. SI 24/24 - 50/120 BE4 109. Looks like I'll be ordering a 55/160 BE3 116 & 118. Also a 48/140 Idle jet. And the carb lid rubber.

While I'm down, I decided to split the spare, then got crazy and did all the tires. I've got to get to the store and buy primer, paint, and clear coat. Time to soak the rims in Vinegar overnight to remove the rust the easy way, then wire brush them, and start the painting process.

OK, pics or it's all make believe... Time to grill some burgers!


Front brakes

What hatched here? Hmmmm...

Old and New

Under the front fender

Exhaust installed and cooked a little. Ran the engine after installing for 15 minutes or so.

Up on blocks and a bunch of rusty rims.

Coming along nicely!

Eric

Did I already use up my WOW allotment for this thread?

This is how to do an old bike ppl, just get lucky & get one like this.

Now this is how you clean up a vintage scoot the project is coming along amazingly! When I get my project P200E one day ill be giving it a thorough clean as well! its ok to shine it up and give it a deep clean and refresh basic parts.... the shame is when people ruin the original patina!

Saw a P200E locally near me however it was full malossi parts and big bore cylinder. heavily modified...not interested :/ and also 38K kms

I installed a set of carbone shocks on my p recently. I’m impressed with the handling change. I also had the rear shock mount nut strip but I had a replacement in my stuff that fit nicely. Love the progress keep it coming.

Thanks Voodoo - It wouldn't have happened without you giving it your time, and your keen eye for a great scoot, under the fuglyness. Thanks Super. I'm excited about the rims are going to come out. Soaking them in vinegar is the ticket for getting all the rust off them. I'm going to do the seat frame also. The foam is deteriorating and starting to crumble along the edges and the seat frame is pretty rusty. Rims , exhaust, and seat frame painting, I feel, are in the clean up area. I won't touch the body paint except to polish.

Here's the latest. So I soaked the rims in Vinegar, sanded anything lingering, and primed, painted, and clearcoated! All was a success BUT - (as Voodoo warned me) the clear coat changed the color of the final product. It was an aluminum color, but now it's more like a grey. It looks more like stock rims, so all is good, and their protected.

And while I'm waiting for the 22mm socket to be delivered (Monday), I figured I could take care of the seat while I'm waiting. I made a makeshift tub out of visquine (thick plastic) and 4x4 scraps to soak the seat frame in vinegar. It's actually 50% vinegar, 50% water, and sprinkled some baking soda in there for good measure. I did the same for the rims. In a day or so, it'll be ready for priming, paint, and clearcoat. I've got to get some black paint though cause I don't like how the stuff I have goes on. It's supposed to be a primer and paint in one, but it kinda sucks.

I also placed another order with ScooterMercato for some goodies like carb box lid gasket, inner tube for spare, various nuts and bolts, brake shoes, and some cool adjustable clutch and brake levers.

Then Fedex shows up - Huh? I didn't order anything? My buddy Matt (Gogogordy) sends this giganto box full of GTS and P200 stuff - headset, shocks, Vespa lock, cool knobs, plates, mirrors, a cool Vespa t-shirt, and a bunch of other body parts, cables, hoses, and more I haven't even opened! Thanks Matt!

And I was showing my wife the pictures of the rims before and after and she said "the scooters chest needs more polishing!", huh, you mean the leg shield? "I'm sure the scooter would rather think of it as it's chest. OK, scooter chest it is!

OK, on with the pictures!


After shot - the Before is above a couple of posts.

Fugly rusty seat pan

More of the rusty seat pan

The seat cover and foam - uhhh, kinda nasty...

Makeshift tub with the pan soaking in vinegar and water.

and baking soda

The box my buddy Matt sent me full of GTS and P200 parts - totally awesome - I had to use a box cutter to get through it all - he glued support beams all throughout the box!

I predict you be riding soon now....



but with an even bigger grin



Dammit sorry, I musta done something wrong I don't think that can be the same scoot

Outstanding documentary! Thanks so much for sharing.

Eric

P200's are such cool 2-wheelers.

Here in Olympia we have a guy that does nothing but P200's. Small shop turing out some nice P200's.

Last edited by Turkman on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

I know that big goofy grin well. Mostly ‘cause I have the same goofy grin every time I take my P out for a ride.

It’s a bike that will make you happy. A lot.

Thanks Voodoo, Virginian, Turkman and Seamus for your kind replies. Especially good to hear from you Turkman - it's been a while!

So on with the seat. I soaked it in Vinegar and water (see above) and gave it a quick wire brushing, then rinsed it off, wiped it down with Alcohol, and painted with Primer, paint, then clearcoat. Damn that clearcoat! It started bubbling and crinkling the paint, so I wiped off whatever was bubbling and crinkling (down to the primer) and resprayed with black Rustoleum XO Paint and Primer. (should have took pics of the paint I used).

While I was there I also painted the grocery bag / helmet lock hook - and clearcoated that because it comes out like the rims.

OK, now I could run the seat naked like Voodoo, but I figured I came this far, might as well stuff some foam in there. And I don't want to pinch anything important! I used a few things from bottom up - rubberized flooring material (between springs and foam), then 3/4" floor mat, then 3/4" yoga mat (very comfy). I'm hoping the seat comes out on the firm side, but still has some give, and I think I achieved that - but the first long ride will be the proof, which hasn't happened (yet).

I used the old seat foam and base as a pattern and just went for it with a bread knife and a pair of scissors. Easy! On with the pictures!


Old foam base and sample of the flooring material I used.

The base is painted and ready to go

I cut this foam to the size of the hard piece attached to the foam. I made a paperbag template to make it easier.

Then I cut the soft yoga mat material about 1 1/2" longer on the sides so it could curve around the harder foam.

Here is the flooring material I'm using in between the springs and hard foam.

Soft foam goes in the seat cover

Hard foam goes in the seat cover. Notice the soft foam is larger. I put a small 45 degree bevel on the hard foam so the soft foam can curve down around the hard foam edge - kinda like the original formed over the years over the hard base.

Flooring layer and stuff the frame into it, and put on the clips! Notice the soft foam is kinda curving over the hard foam?

And here it is - all done!

Hi Scott,

What is the size of those VIN and emission stickers?

2nd ave scooters in Phoenix sells those vin and emissions stickers.
https://2ndavenuescooters.com/?p=4869

They no longer have the stickers

He said he should have some printed very soon. I hope so, I need a set.

Your seat looks fabulous!! A lot of ingenuity went into that reconstruction for sure. I'm really enjoying all your pics and learning a lot of "how to" as well. She's so beautifully shiny now! Good work.

What I like is after all the upgrades, the seat still has the right lines... it looks just right, could be NOS.



Didn't look too bad when you got it with the new cover on it, but looks better now & much more comfy too.

Sticker on left (Emission) is 4 5/8" x 1 3/4"
Sticker on steering colum (VIN) is 5" x 1 7/8"

I hope this helps!

Thanks Kimono - Just chipping away and doing what I can to have a sweet running, and pretty good looking machine to run around on!

Thank you Voodoo! It was a process - and I went for a ride yesterday - the new seat is AWESOME! Just what I was hoping for in the firmness front. I usually sit right in the middle of the seat where the two support springs are anyway, but forward and rearward are sweet as well. And I love a bench seat because I'm tall and need to move around - much more choices for butt positioning!

Awesome. Thanks a lot.

So I took Voodoos advice and clearcoated the factory sticker with the VIN that was supposed to be removed when it was delivered to the dealer. I'm assuming that's what it is anyway.

I also got another box from ScooterMercato. So now I can get the spare put back together and start playing around with jetting, but first, time to install the little bits before messing with the jets. The cool thing is it's running just fine now, so I have a baseline I can always go back to!

On with the Pics!


Taped off the funky label and clearcoated it - hopefully the clearcoat paint doesn't eat the thing!

The finished product

Box-O-Stuff

Soak the carb box lid seal with 303 protectant before installing.

Replaced the gas cap rubber seal

Blue locktite for the rear lower shock mount.

Pic of the refurbished seat installed.

I put the spare tire together with a new tube, and dielectric greased all the connections behind the battery box and also put a healthy charge on the battery.

A few days ago I was riding and the neutral light was flaky and also the blinkers were acting funny. Hmmm. After I ensured all the connections were tight, it was worse! So I checked the main fuse (little dinky thing) and sure enough, now everything is working again. Gotta get some spare fuses, and look into possible alternatives for that fuse holder. I know, pictures or it didn't happen...


All cleaned up

Spare back in.