1979 P125X
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Enthusiast
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Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:47 pm quote
Continuing from http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic160429

Thought I'd share the backstory the seller gave me, for documentation purposes.
He got this scooter from his X-wife. She needed some cash and he wanted some collateral, so he got the VNX. It wasn't running when he got it- her boyfriend, who fancied himself a mechanic, had taken it apart. Before she had it, it apparently belonged to a professor at Northern Michigan University. There is still a parking sticker for NMU on the front fork.

So the seller had moved it into his basement back in about 2005, and there it sat.

My goal is to get the machine running (EDIT: and reliable) and make it safe to pilot. I've created a spreadsheet to help identify costs and keep me in check. So far including the cost of the scooter, we're around $500. I'm not including the gas I used to pick it up or the 7 bucks of beef jerky I ate on the way back. I'm moving fast because this is my last day off before I have to go back to the real world.

Last edited by Accolay on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:56 pm quote
Anybody know how much fuel line I'll need for this?
Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2222
Location: West of Boston
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:44 pm quote
24 inches. No more, no less.

At least that seems to be the consensus here.
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:45 pm quote
More questions than answers.

Going through online diagrams to make a master list of the missing items/hardware and the things that will definately require replacement i.e. carb kit, tires/tubes, etc. (also need engine shroud.) Also probably need new shocks. Not so stiff.

Tail light says it's made by Stanley in Japan- so from Japanese motorcycle.

What's missing below the crotch? EDIT: maybe it's black thing that was in the box?

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What's missing below the crotch?

Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2222
Location: West of Boston
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:01 pm quote
That's the fuel tap, or petcock. On/Off/Reserve.

There are two types... a plastic one that rotates from up to pointing forward, to pointing down. There's a metal one that rotates from pointing left, to pointing up, to pointing right.

The plastic ones are known to be delicate. The metal ones are more robust. I believe you have a metal one, but it's missing the handle and a metal plate to cover most of the hole in the body (would that be called an escutcheon?).
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:14 pm quote
Larrytsg wrote:
There are two types... a plastic one that rotates from up to pointing forward, to pointing down. There's a metal one that rotates from pointing left, to pointing up, to pointing right.

The plastic ones are known to be delicate. The metal ones are more robust. I believe you have a metal one, but it's missing the handle and a metal plate to cover most of the hole in the body (would that be called an escutcheon?).
Thank you. I couldn't find either the black plastic bit on the diagram or it's associated hardware.

So... I would need this?
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Fuel-Taps-and-Parts/FUELCONV
and one of these?
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Fuel-Taps-and-Parts/103202
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:27 pm quote
It occurs to me that maybe the cylinder included with this scooter isn't native to this scooter at all. I don't know if it is or not, but maybe it's not. It appears to be right though, just about 52.5mm for the standard piston, if I measured right.
Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2222
Location: West of Boston
Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:47 pm quote
From the pic, you appear to have the rod, just not the handle. Probably not sold seperately
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:27 pm quote
I've been obsessing over what parts to order. Keeping in mind my goal: a running, reliable, safe means of transportation. I'm going to take apart the engine and see what's up and what else I need before I make a huge order

I've looked at what I could possibly go without. Big ticket items: tires, seat cover, shocks, the piston and now... engine overhaul kit. I'm missing the flywheel cover, the carb air box cover, the engine shroud and all the hardware associated. Needs battery. Rubber kit is a better deal for everything than ordering just the pieces I absolutely need.

I could go without the seat cover, but I'll start ruining the foam.
Tires and tubes are necessary.
Shocks are shot, also safety and braking performance.
I looked hard at the old piston to see if there was any way I could reuse it- it's out of round and aparently had some catestophic failure in the past- metal is missing.
Surely it is folly to not replace bearings and seals when you're going that far?

My total for the project is ever increasing. Please tell me that a running, reliable, safe, rebuilt p125x total cost under $900 is a great deal.

For all that is holy, let the crankshaft be ok.
Hooked
04 Genuine Stella, 03 Vespa ET, 62 Motovespa 150S (with a P125X engine) and a 71 Rally 180
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 447
Location: Lehi, UT
Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:54 pm quote
You have the inner workings of a US style petcock, you are missing the plastic portion. It looks like this.


Die Wespe Kind
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1182
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:45 pm quote
He has it, but maybe broken...

BCF39939-BE22-44E6-BE7C-659E85321A87.jpeg

Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:59 pm quote
Thanks for looking at that guys. I did go back in the garage and try that piece out...sure enough, no selector piece.
Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:53 pm quote
You can buy this fuel petcock shut off valve from a forum member and just screw in. http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2150394?highlight=#2150394
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:03 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
You can buy this fuel petcock shut off valve from a forum member and just screw in. http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2150394?highlight=#2150394
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Hope that guy is still making them. I sent a PM.


Other than that, I've thought about parts to order. The thing has been sitting for at least 15 years. The seals would probably need replacement anyway. Probably. And I'm taking it apart. Why buy a new piston etc and let the seals rot out? I just have to pull the trigger. Unfortunately I'm unable to dissassemble correctly to see more since I don't have its flywheel puller for the P series.

Also, anybody with advice about the crank extractor tool from Scooter Mercato? Should I buy it? Do I need it?
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:19 pm quote
I pulled the trigger on parts last night. I'm sure I'll find other things I need once I take the engine apart, but this order is the bulk of it. Will update when parts arrive.
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:50 pm quote
Mmmmm... Mark Paxton
Just arrived today. Everything else should be tomorrow.

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And this

Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:33 pm quote
Good you're making some type of progress. I have that book and its very useful.

You really don't need the crank extractor tool but it is nice to have.

I sent you a PM.

Good luck!!
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:34 pm quote
Still waiting on parts

FedEx screwed the pooch and I wasted a lot of time hanging around waiting for the package. I'll have to pick up either tomorrow or Friday.
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:47 pm quote
I got the goods. Was able to spend a few hours in the garage and get acquainted with her body. Took apart as much of the engine as I could, but unable to get the cases apart tonight.

Also got it titled, new tabs and plate. Had to buy insurance to do this, so have to get it running as soon as possible

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A little greasy. Top end seal fail?

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Noticing more parts needed- need he screw for this. And the wires are pretty dried out.

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Also this. Looks like melted on the exhaust.

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Liberated

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Normal?

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siezed. Had to remove with heat

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Hammered this out.

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After

Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 pm quote
The fat lady is warming up
Found the source of all the grease leaking from the engine today. We have a crack Houston. Picture later. Need ice cream.
Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:52 pm quote
Re: The fat lady is warming up
Accolay wrote:
Found the source of all the grease leaking from the engine today. We have a crack Houston. Picture later. Need ice cream.
Is it fixable?
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:42 pm quote
I'm not sure. I've already been searching for welders. I'll shop it around on Tuesday.
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:10 pm quote
It haven't posted progress because there has been almost none until today. I couldn't get the cases apart due to the absolutely frozen bottom case bolt. I've been soaking it every day in hopes it would loosen, but no such luck. I had to drill it out today. It's still frozen in there, but at least the cases are apart.


I've posted more pics of this crack for comments on repair in the "Not so Modern" section. Here it is again.

I have continued to clean up parts. Started with the airbox and selector box.

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Prior to removal of bolt

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Took apart the carbs and soaking in cleaner.

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Cleaned up the airbox

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After

Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:27 am quote
Making some good progress.

As I look more at your crack cases, I think I would start with JB weld. An aluminum welder could prob repair but the cases don't look bad enough for that. I maybe wrong but cleaning up the cases real good and applying and grinding down JB weld should work. Remove the stud before application of JB weld.

Good luck!
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:43 pm quote
I think I'm going to start looking for another case but in the meantime, I'm going to probably attempt the JB Weld method.

I went to an engine guy today and he was worried about warping the case during his weld from the heat. He was thinking it would be about $150-200 for the job with no guaranteed outcome.

The crack causes the edge of the case to have a small lip. I'm thinking that it will most likely leak as is now.

So I went down the our local massive motorcycle graveyard to see if they had anything. I only saw two vintage and two modern Vespas there. Only the modern had motors left.

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Also found these Italian made minimini bikes. Foot for scale

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Scooter Section

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Lotsa bikes. Wondering what their business model is. A lot of it looks like scrap to me, especially since most is exposed.

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Had to stop since I was close.

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Exhaust anyone?

Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:48 pm quote
Good luck finding p200 cases. They are very sought after.

The JB weld should work fine. Build up the lip with JB weld and grind until even with cases. Since you're not repairing the head area, that repair section of the engine has less stress and heat. You're just trying to stop it from leaking.

Good luck!
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:22 pm quote
Thanks rowdy.

I've never put JB Weld on an engine case before. Should I grind down the area first or just poop it on there? Only on the outside or also on the inside? Also, should I just use the original JB Weld or one of their other products?
Hooked
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 426
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:25 pm quote
Watch some videos on Youtube and use the regular JB weld. You'll be surprised at some of the results. The most important part is to try to start with a clean surface and grind just little to a shine.

I've never done it but if you can get the inside smooth down without damaging the inside of the cases, try applying some inside. Since you're deciding to go the jb weld route, post this question on your other thread. Many have done repairs with jb weld. http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic143622?highlight=thing++weld

Done correctly the cases should last a long time.

Also, post some pics of the entire cases with the crack. There's a pin that stay in the case and acts as one of the screws for a bolt. If its that screw that you think is stuck in the case, JB weld will be needed to repair/replace.

Good luck!
Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2222
Location: West of Boston
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:55 am quote
If you need a new engine, there's a member here (he lives in western Mass) that has a freshly rebuilt P125 engine for sale....

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic159677
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:14 pm quote
I found a welder who is localish who deals with welding on specialty projects like this and dropped off the case today. Fingers crossed that it will hopefully go well.

Tonight I shall work on another part...perhaps dissasembly of wheels for painting?
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:13 pm quote
One Step Forward...One Step Sideways
Looks like we have a winner. Cases still fit together nicely. They're really clean now and he drilled and pushed out that bottom case bolt for me.

Then I attempted to unscrew the brake holder bolt thing and it snapped off. And it's way stuck. Back to a machine shop tomorrow. It's times like this I wish I had a MIG laying around.

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No wonder there was so much oil leaking around this.

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This is broke too.

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This is the worst part on the gears. Replace?

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How important is this?

Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1182
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:28 pm quote
Nice welds there but you have eliminated the "pocket" for the kick-start stop rubber. If you leave it like that and try to kick-start it, you'll probably end up with a cracked case again. Gear looks fine to me. Harness also looks to be in the correct place / routing. Throttle cable should be in front of the harness and the whole "group" should be behind the steering lock. I would grease the steering column bearings though. From the photo, the upper bearing looks rusted...

img_2969_li_97000.jpg

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Leave it as is...

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Never seen this before. Maybe a US market thing...

Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:39 am quote
SaFiS wrote:
Nice welds there but you have eliminated the "pocket" for the kick-start stop rubber. If you leave it like that and try to kick-start it, you'll probably end up with a cracked case again. Gear looks fine to me. Harness also looks to be in the correct place / routing. Throttle cable should be in front of the harness and the whole "group" should be behind the steering lock. I would grease the steering column bearings though. From the photo, the upper bearing looks rusted...
SOB! I didnt even notice. Going to need to grind a bit there....

The picture of the tube is the fuel tap. I'm assuming it's cracked?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5267
Location: Indo
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:26 am quote
ur scooter graveyard look like a haven to me, especially those smallie frame

good luck with the engine and cheer mate
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a herd of easy shifty rats
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6637
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:02 pm quote
Nice welding and now you get to learn more Dremel skills. Plus I agree w/ ebeth on that boneyard there, but more .

Calling all units! Crime. In. Progress.
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:01 pm quote
Took the seat apart. Foam is ok. Wire brushed the seat frame and sprayed Ospho on the rusty spots. I might paint the spots with rustoleum tomorow. Or not.

Stopping by the engine shop to have the guy get the broken bit out and grinding the case for kick lever stop tomorrow as well. Moar parts on Friday.

Also selling some old projects for Vespa seed money and to free up some space and so I don't become a hoarder.

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Fare thee well

Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:53 pm quote
Progress! Posting to Keep Myself Honest
It was a delicate procedure, but the operation was successful, I think. Used an end mill in the drill press to remove the largest parts of the meat, then finished with dremel tool carbide bit hand grinding.


Dropped off the case at engine guy's to drill out the broken brake cable adjuster.

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Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 pm quote
Progress
So I missed the deadline for a scooter rally- family junk came up.

Some small progress today. I have to remember that this isn't a concours restoration- I'm looking for a solid "B" in that department.

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New Sticker. Small air bubbles, but still pretty happy I was able to get it on straight on the first go.



Last edited by Accolay on Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
LX150, GTS300, BV350, EN650
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 4334
Location: Home of the Alamo
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:13 am quote
Slow and steady wins the race Accolay. Enjoying watching your progress. You'll make the next rally!
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: The Great White North
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:41 pm quote
Nothing sexier than new hardware.

Ok, all done. Going to mount the wheels and seat and then Flintstone it around town. Who needs an engine anyway?

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Somewhat fitting that I partially inflated the tires with an Italian pump?

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