My First P200E
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Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:04 am quote
Hi guys. I posted my cable problem on another thread but I figured it's time for a project thread that I will be updating with pics, progress, but mostly problems.

Currently the bike is back together from installing new gear cables and now the selector box moves nicely. Are there any tricks to installing the gear selector? When I start to ride the bike from neutral the bike slipped into gear and stalls. Or I try putting it in first and it doesn't engage. Is it the crux? I need some help. Thanks in advance.

-Dave
Lurker
1980 P200 E
Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 4
Location: Florida
Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:55 am quote
Is the clutch engaging?
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:23 pm quote
Pulling in the clutch does work. Bike ran and changed gears fine when I took it on my test ride. Only major thing I did was replace the gear cables. Still baffled on what it could be.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:28 pm quote
They use a 4th hand tool to put tension in the cable but get a neighbor with some pliers to do the same thing.
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:50 pm quote
Thanks MJ. My selector box seems to work fine. I did like the video said. Is there any way that the selector box is mounted to the crux gear thingy?
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:20 pm quote
Dave-

Yea the selector box pulls/pushes the spindle that the shift cross is threaded onto.

Are you certain neutral on the selector box matches up with neutral at your hand grip?
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:26 pm quote
I have some updates but no progress. Bike is currently on my bike stand with the rear tire lifted.

MJ- Neutral on the selector box does line up with neutral on the hand grip.

But here is something I realized: While installing I had the spindle in 4th gear and the selector box in 1st. I had them backwards. That being said, when installed with both in neutral it can upshift through the gears properly but not downshift. This is with me manually spinning the rear wheel. I don't know if this is an issue or not.

I also noticed that when I pull on the clutch cable and the bike is in gear it stays in gear. My understanding is that the wheel should spin freely. I'm really getting frustrated here. Especially since everything worked on my test ride.

Thanks for sticking with me guys!
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:35 pm quote
It should upshift and downshift properly.

If you squeeze the clutch everything still spins internally. The vespa engine is designed to always be spinning internally. The shift cross locks the gear which turns the rear tire. When you select neutral, the gears spin around the shift cross.

Why don't you post some pics so we can all see how you have things set up.

Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:03 pm quote
PROBLEM FIXED! It was something very simple.

It was my ignorance of Vespa scooters. I was installing the shifter arm outside of the shift rod. I thought the motor spinning would push the rod out. The shifter arm pushes AND pulls the shift shaft.

I was able to take the scooter for a ride. Engine runs well. However, there is a noticeable wobble with the bike. The bearings seem nice and smooth. While the bike was on the stand I did notice the rear wheel had some play. Is this common? What could be the problem?

Thanks in advance. I will be posting pics as more progress is made.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:05 pm quote
Rear wheel should have NO side to side play on it. Check the castleated hub nut is torqued down to 55-65 foot pounds and a new cotter pin is installed
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8129
Location: Atlanta, GA
Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:31 pm quote
just to add to MJ's post, can you post some close-up pics of your scoot? Side pics of the hubs so we can see how the rims are mounted (note that some tires are directional as well...), and straight on from the front and back so we can see if everything looks straight with the wheels.

These project threads are way more interesting with pics anyway
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:20 pm quote
Thanks guys! The rear hub nut was so loose I could spin it with just my fingers!! I torqued and installed new cotter pin. That cured the wobble. I was able to get the bike up to 55mph in 4th gear WOT.

I went on my first longer ride today. It was able 15-20 minutes. The bike fouled a plug. That should definietly not happen. I'm running B7ES plugs. When I got back home I cleaned the carb for good measure. Then it was a pain to start. Ended up getting it to start and adjusted to carb to idle correctly. Hopefully it'll start easy tomorrow. My goal is work on tuning first then work on more cosmetic stuff like repainting that ugly copper.

Here's pics!

IMG_20170312_163849131 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

Loose rear hub nut. Now that I posted this, should the washer be behind the nut not in front of it?
IMG_20170412_140154717 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

Took some pics of the crank with the carb off
IMG_20170412_171300768 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

IMG_20170412_171310289-1 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

Front hub
IMG_20170412_140744789 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

Carb Slide
IMG_20170412_165207775 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr

IMG_20170412_164530489 by Dave Dogg, on Flickr
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1645
Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:12 am quote
You are missing this on both hubs...

beb85e7e-58b8-4e3b-9d0a-10bd47010569.jpg

Hooked
1979 P125x, 1980 P200E
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 397
Location: Roeland Park, Kansas
Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:35 am quote
Mate, that rear wheel is missing the castle nut. Should have that large washer on first, castle nut next and cotter pin goes next.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1645
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:45 am quote
P/PXs disn't came with castle nuts (at least in Greece). They have a regular nut with the safety washer I posted earlier and the cotter pin to keep it in place...
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:41 am quote
Thanks guys. It has already came loose after a short ride. I put some locktite on it for now. I'll be getting a castle nut when I place my next order.
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8129
Location: Atlanta, GA
Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:45 am quote
you can see the assembly here:
http://vespamaintenance.com/body/rbrake/index.html

(that site and scooterhelp.com are essential resources)

You definitely don't want that sucker coming loose! Even if you don't get injured, the play will damage the soft metal of the hub
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7404
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:23 pm quote

I can see why it came loose. In addition to needing a castle nut or nut cage to take advantage of the cotter pin, you need to put the washer under the nut and that doesn't look like the right washer anyway. The right one is snugger to the axle diameter and quite thick.

Your pictures scare me, but good on you for at least having one cotter pin. You dodged a bullet. Don't eff around w/ your axle nuts and cotter pins or you could wind up like this poor guy w/ 5 pages of catastrophe and high drama: 2nd ride after rebuild...wheel fell off.....went to hospital . Maybe check your motor mount, shock mount and wheel rim nuts next time you get a chance if you haven't done it yet.

Don't ride this until you get it done right, probably w/ the nut cages. LocTite is NOT enough!!!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4905
Location: So Cal
Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:28 pm quote
davedogg wrote:
... I was able to get the bike up to 55mph in 4th gear WOT...

Ho... lee... crap.
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:10 am quote
Hi guys. I have not stopped on this project. I am in the process of closing on my first house which has caused some delay.

Another issue is finding the right rear wheel castle nut. I ordered one from Scooter Mercato but it does not fit. http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Hardware/S-02314

The current nut is 24mm OD and 14.5 ID. From everyone's advice I will not even attempt to ride without the correct castle nut. If you guys can help direct me to the right one that would be great! Thanks for everyone's help!

Last edited by davedogg on Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1645
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:21 am quote
Just buy the nut cage. Your current nuts are fine. Earlier P/PXs came with the castlenut. Later models (thicker axles) had the 24mm nut with the cage...

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Hardware/194423
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:23 am quote
Thanks SaFis! I guess having a late model P200 messing things up a little. Going to order the part today.
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:24 am quote
Got the rear hub nut secured. Thanks for the help guys.

Now I have an issue with the clutch cable/lever. I just replaced and cleaned the inner cable and seems to be smooth. But the lever won't return. I took the headset off and noticed that the outer cable is moving when I pull the lever and will not return.

I also noticed that I do not have the piece in the middle of the clutch cable in this picture.

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Complete-Cables/CC2

Could this missing piece be causing my issue?
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:58 pm quote
Dave-

I can't remember if the headset for a P200 has just a V notch or a round notch for your clutch cable. If you loosen the clutch cable inner and get a flashlight and look where the cable comes out to the lever, you'll see if it's a V or a round cutout. If you have the V then you do not need the cable tophat. You just need to reseat the cable outer better and make sure it's tight before riding again.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1645
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:06 pm quote
Round notch. He needs the tophat, installed from inside the handlebar tube. Same for the front brake...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7121
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:09 pm quote
You'll want to keep a very close eye on that rear hub once you get it tightened up properly. Once they have come loose they seem to keep on doing it, it's even possible you'll need a new hub because the splines are worn. I'd check it after every ride.
Member
PX200E
Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Trenton, NJ
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:14 pm quote
It's been a long time! I recently changed jobs, got married, and bought my first house. Needless to say I've been very busy. Not much has been happening with the scoot and except a little paint and odds and ends.

My issue that I want to address now is something that has been going on since I bought the scooter. It has inconsistent starting. It gets spark and gas but takes dozens of kicks to start. Once it starts it runs well. I can't seem to narrow it down. Maybe it's something about these bikes I just don't know.
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