evap is there any point removing??
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Hooked
carnaby 125
Joined: 24 Oct 2017
Posts: 142
Location: uk
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:57 pm quote
I hear people on here removing it but on my piaggio 125 is a different evap system to vespa

I would after blank plate it that's only option

also is there any point removing it

I don't have any issues running or starting
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8080
Location: New Hampshire
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:15 pm quote
Are you sure you have an evap system? I thought those were only US Vespas to comply with EPA regs.


https://www.gov.uk/emissions-testing

Last edited by NightWing on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
carnaby 125
Joined: 24 Oct 2017
Posts: 142
Location: uk
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:19 pm quote
Well in UK known as sas valve
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8080
Location: New Hampshire
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:21 pm quote
Apparently, you are exempt from testing because you have two wheels. See above link I added.

If it runs OK, why not just leave it?
Hooked
BV250
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 227
Location: CA
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:52 pm quote
The correct answer is to maintain and replace vacuum lines as needed so that the evap system doesn't cause running problems.

For those willing to risk tipovers and fuel spills, the removal is great in order to eliminate the evap system as a source of vacuum leak and prevent fuel delivery issues due to overfilling or fuel getting into those tubes, causing improper flow of air in the tank. If any of these things are a problem and one wants to take their chances, that's when to do the evap mod.

I did mine. That should be telling One bonus was a rubber strap that I could repurpose as a battery hold down which I was missing.
Hooked
carnaby 125
Joined: 24 Oct 2017
Posts: 142
Location: uk
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:01 pm quote
I leave it as it is as so for I not got any issues at the minute
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(37,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2023
Location: Orange Park Florida
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:11 pm quote
SAS is the secondary air supply. The Evap catches hydrocarbons that escape the fuel tank and returns it to the intake system. The SAS injects air into the exhaust system for a more complete burn of exhaust gases.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(37,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2023
Location: Orange Park Florida
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:17 pm quote
ukguy2k wrote:
I leave it as it is as so for I not got any issues at the minute
The only time it's needs to be removed is when you use an aftermarket exhaust to stop deceleration popping.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36794
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm quote
ukguy2k wrote:
Well in UK known as sas valve
A completely different system to the carbon canister Evap Crap the US has to endure. I'll add - it's not that crap on other vehicles, but it is on Vespas and some other motorcycles because of the fuel tank and fuel system topography.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10470
Location: Oregon City, OR
Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:29 pm quote
NightWing wrote:
If it runs OK, why not just leave it?
^ ^ ^ Bingo! ^ ^ ^
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 242
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:56 am quote
The evap crap takes up alot of space in my pet carrier. This would be a good reason to remove it, so I can use that space.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10470
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:49 am quote
bean counter wrote:
The evap crap takes up alot of space in my pet carrier. This would be a good reason to remove it, so I can use that space.
And that would have been the only reason I would have ever considered removing the evap system from my BV 350. It worked fine all the time I owned the bike. Given the position of the fuel tank in a BV 350, I'd guess it would be even more trouble free than the evap system on an MV.
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 242
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:36 am quote
FWIW, I completely fill up my BV350's gas tank every time I get gas and have never had an issue with fuel filling up the evap canister which is why I still haven't removed it, yet. If I did it would have been long gone. I think that this is more of an issue for the smaller vespas that don't have their gas tank so lower in their bikes.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 127

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:10 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
bean counter wrote:
The evap crap takes up alot of space in my pet carrier. This would be a good reason to remove it, so I can use that space.
And that would have been the only reason I would have ever considered removing the evap system from my BV 350. It worked fine all the time I owned the bike. Given the position of the fuel tank in a BV 350, I'd guess it would be even more trouble free than the evap system on an MV.
Unfortunately it isnít.

I endured popping on deceleration, throttle hesitation, erratic idle and stalling after startup on my Ď13 off and in for five years. I had it reprogrammed at the dealer when new software was available, Iíve changed the plug, cap, plug wire, etc. nothing mattered. Then about 3 weeks ago I finally removed the evap system. Itís a different scooter now. All - and I mean every single one of those issues are now gone.

The evap system on the BV350 is an afterthought, and thatís about how well it functions. Beyond that I am not a fan of evap systems that donít have a purge valve controlled by the computer. With a purge valve the computer decides when to cycle it based on current operating parameters, and is mapped for the introduction of extra fuel vapors during those conditions. The Piaggio system has no such control and relies on afterburn feedback to tell it whatís happening. The result is a system that is constantly adjusting fuel trim to chase a moving target. Thatís way less than ideal.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10470
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am quote
Bueller wrote:
I endured popping on deceleration, throttle hesitation, erratic idle and stalling after startup on my Ď13 off and in for five years. I had it reprogrammed at the dealer when new software was available, Iíve changed the plug, cap, plug wire, etc. nothing mattered. Then about 3 weeks ago I finally removed the evap system. Itís a different scooter now. All - and I mean every single one of those issues are now gone.
If your evap system is malfunctioning, then certainly fix it or remove it as you choose. My comment was that the evap system on my '13 BV350 worked fine, as have the evap systems on the other 6 Vespa and Piaggio scooters I have owned. Yes, I understand there are evap systems that have failed. This Forum is also full of stories where an individual has a rough running scooter, others tell him to pull the evap system, he does, and it makes no difference. Best to fix the problem you actually have IMO.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6418
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:52 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
Bueller wrote:
I endured popping on deceleration, throttle hesitation, erratic idle and stalling after startup on my Ď13 off and in for five years. I had it reprogrammed at the dealer when new software was available, Iíve changed the plug, cap, plug wire, etc. nothing mattered. Then about 3 weeks ago I finally removed the evap system. Itís a different scooter now. All - and I mean every single one of those issues are now gone.
If your evap system is malfunctioning, then certainly fix it or remove it as you choose. My comment was that the evap system on my '13 BV350 worked fine, as have the evap systems on the other 6 Vespa and Piaggio scooters I have owned. Yes, I understand there are evap systems that have failed. This Forum is also full of stories where an individual has a rough running scooter, others tell him to pull the evap system, he does, and it makes no difference. Best to fix the problem you actually have IMO.
Do you fill your tank to the brim?
Do you have hot weather that will cause excessive expansion of the fuel in the tank?
Those are two contributing factors.
Fill to the top all the time in hot weather and I would be amazed if the problem didn't happen.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(37,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2023
Location: Orange Park Florida
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:22 pm quote
I removed the EVAP immediately after purchasing my BV's for space. I don't live in CA., so I didn't break any laws. But I did have stalling and popping on deceleration after EVAP removal on the 2014 that was solved by a remap.
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3943
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:02 am quote
My 2006 GT, Rocket, had one big issue within the first year.

In high speed runs, it would suddenly lose some power and slow from running in the 70ís to the mid 60ís. The engine temperature would go up as well and it would run poorly until I came to a stop, then headed out again. It would run normally until pushing the speed up again.

But some times it wouldnít do that. I ran the Cannonball in 2014, almost wide open for nine days without ever doing this.

Then, a few years ago it started giving me big problems.

Out on rides it would stumble badly, cut out and three times, stop running entirely. Two of those had me pushing it home, once one mile, the other almost three miles.

So I looked up a way to bypass the evap system, performed the simple procedure, and never had either problem again.

I did the same to Vanessa and Razzo too.

In an effort to get as much distance as possible out of each tankful of gasoline, I do fill the tank to full. Every now and then, fuel will drip put of the new bypass hose onto the ground when over filling. That fuel would have gone into the canister, wreaking havoc to the engine performance.

Bill
Enthusiast
GTS 300
Joined: 20 Oct 2011
Posts: 50
Location: Charlotte
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:13 am quote
Funny enough when I took my bike into the shop for a tune up (new plug, air filter, new belt, oil change) when I got her back she was also missing the evap can. Hey no complaints here

Looks like they did not plug the one nipple however and so I guess I do have a vacuum leak (or really, excess air in the intake stream I believe? will need to take another look) but it runs fantastic so I haven't been bothered to change it.

I *do* however get the deceleration popping - don't necessarily mind it. Unless it's harmful? I'm trying to understand what is going on in the engine to make it pop like that. Improperly timed combustion? Why only on decel?
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 242
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:37 pm quote
I regularly fill my tank with gas to the brim and have hot Southern California summer weather and have had no problems whatsoever for over a year and a half. There's probably more to it than just filling to the brim and hot weather. My scooter has also never been tipped over. I wonder how many of the scooters with evap carp issues were tipped over at some point or had something else going on that upset the evap system. Personally, I would assume that there would be gas in the carbon filter part of the evap crap if I had tipped by scooter over and would replace the carbon filter or yank the whole system at the first sign of an issue.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6418
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:20 am quote
bean counter wrote:
I regularly fill my tank with gas to the brim and have hot Southern California summer weather and have had no problems whatsoever for over a year and a half. There's probably more to it than just filling to the brim and hot weather. My scooter has also never been tipped over. I wonder how many of the scooters with evap carp issues were tipped over at some point or had something else going on that upset the evap system. Personally, I would assume that there would be gas in the carbon filter part of the evap crap if I had tipped by scooter over and would replace the carbon filter or yank the whole system at the first sign of an issue.
It does have to do with over filling the tank, same thing happens with cars.
Now if you over fill and drive 15-20 miles before parking you won't have an issue. But if you over fill then park the car in the hot sun, you may have problems.
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