Replacement tyres on the ET4
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Hooked
Vintage Green GT125
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Republic of Mancunia - UK
Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:06 pm quote
I've ordered some replacement tyres for my ET4 back and front. Looking in the Haynes manual it offers no suggestion on replacing the tyre other than see your dealer.

Is this a job I can do myself? What's the level of difficulty? Should I contact a garage/dealer and get them to do the install?

Grateful for views and assistance.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 4199
Location: San Diego, Ca
Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:23 pm quote
I've done a lot of them and I absolutely hate it. I take all my personal tires to the motorcycle shop acroos the street who does them for $15 each. If you choose to tackle the job yourself you will need 3 tire irons, a rag or something to protect the rim, something to inflate the tire with, and bead sealer. It's a good idea to replace the valve stem while you are in there. After all this, I promise that you will wish you took it somewhere else.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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Location: San Diego, Ca
Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:23 pm quote
rear is a 120/70/10 and front 100/80/10
Hooked
Vintage Green GT125
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Republic of Mancunia - UK
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:12 pm quote
Motorsport Scooters wrote:
I've done a lot of them and I absolutely hate it. I take all my personal tires to the motorcycle shop acroos the street who does them for $15 each. If you choose to tackle the job yourself you will need 3 tire irons, a rag or something to protect the rim, something to inflate the tire with, and bead sealer. It's a good idea to replace the valve stem while you are in there. After all this, I promise that you will wish you took it somewhere else.


yep...I think I will take it somewhere other than my front drive. The nearest I have to a tyre iron is a big spoon!

Cheers for the warning though
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Reprehensible Misinformant
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 7560
Location: Winchester, California
Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 am quote
Re: Replacement tyres on the ET4
Velvet wrote:
I've ordered some replacement tyres for my ET4 back and front. Looking in the Haynes manual it offers no suggestion on replacing the tyre other than see your dealer.

Is this a job I can do myself? What's the level of difficulty? Should I contact a garage/dealer and get them to do the install?

Grateful for views and assistance.
I do my own at home, and I hate it...but I'll still do it.

I deflate the tire, bust the bead down, then cut the bead with my dremel to get it off the rim. Then I lube the new tire bead with dish soap and commence to monkey-f%&@ the new tire on with no damage to the rims. I sometimes need a nylon bicycle tire iron to get that last inch or so over the rim! My compressor seats the tires quite well.

Why do I do it myself? Am I cheap, perhaps...but I run his-n-hers ET-4's, seems like I constantly need a tire or two. I had a friend have his tire changed at Cycle Gear, and they garfed up his rim real bad. As the man once said, if you want something done right....

It's a pain in the behind, but we always have good rubber on us, on nice rims!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1464
Location: Worcester, Ma USA
Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:20 am quote
I just changed the rear tire on my ET4 and I'll continue to change my own tires. Yes it's difficult, but not impossible.

Tim
Hooked
Vintage Green GT125
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Republic of Mancunia - UK
Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:12 am quote
I ended up taking it to a local motorcycle/scoot repair shop who did the job. Cost was....£25 or $43 on today's exchange rates.

This is pretty expensive so I will do it from now on.

The tyres were nice. I got them from SIP Scootershop. They are all-weather Schwarbe tyres which have made a real handling difference.
Member
2005 ET4, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Lomita, California
Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:15 am quote
For the tech guys
I had the rear tire on my et4 replaced, when I picked up the bike the mechanic said that he had installed a Continental Zippy1 130/70/10. What Positive or negative does riding with this tire size have???

Manny
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Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 4199
Location: San Diego, Ca
Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:34 pm quote
It's ever so slightly wider. It will definitely look better, and the handling characteristics will be marginally different. It shouldn't really matter because the body prevents you from leaning over far enough to notice the handling differences. There will be a larger contact patch, meaning there is more rubber touching the ground which should be better braking/acceleration traction. All the actual effects will not be very noticable, but wide tires on scoots look really good.
Member
2005 ET4, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Lomita, California
Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:45 pm quote
Thanks for the info. Now I am cuirous, when the time comes to replace the front would a wider tire fit?

Manny
Hooked
X-9 500 Evo, GT200
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 163

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:15 pm quote
From a web tire calculator:
size        diameter       circumference     % difference
    120/70-10       16.6"             52.2"          baseline
    130/70-10       17.2"             53.9"           3.3%
The good news is that this will reduce the optimistic nature of your speedometer. In good conditions you might have a higher top speed, but you'll have less effective torque, so acceleration will be reduced.

BTW, wider tires don't get you more rubber on the road, they only change the shape of the contact patch. The area of the contact patch is determined by tire rigidity (which includes construction and air pressure) and the weight of the bike+rider. I don't know the mechanics of what contact patches for cycles, so I don't know if wider is better or not.
Molto Verboso
06 GTS250. 00 Yamaha Vino airsal 70cc. 01 ET4 (wrecked). 67 Lambretta Vega125. 48 Beam Doodlebug Super. 1915 Board Track replica 80cc
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1352
Location: Monterey Ca.
Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:24 pm quote
I have the zippy 130/70/ 10 on the back of my et and haven't noticed any difference in acceleration/top speed.
They are nice handling tires, but that's coming from someone who's had 4 sets of Sava whitewalls in a row.
Technical Moderator
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:06 pm quote
Bravo, Tim!
TFauch wrote:
I just changed the rear tire on my ET4 and I'll continue to change my own tires. Yes it's difficult, but not impossible.
That's great news, Tim.
What would it take to get you to highlight your experience? I'll prod you a little. Did your bead breaker clamp work okay? How long did it take to break the bead? Was the tire seated firm? Did your tire levers work okay? Would you rather have one's shaped differently, or of a different length? Did you happen to find a balance marker on the replacement tire? Did you use a tire sealer product? What brand dish washing liquid did you use? Did you exfoliate any skin in the process?

I know, it sounds like I'm kidding. Don't misread me, though. I want to know your experience. At the very least, it would help me in deciding if I would ever suggest this again. You're the man!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1464
Location: Worcester, Ma USA
Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:38 pm quote
Gary,

Good to see you back again Just getting the wheel off the scoot was a challenge at 1st. With the exhaust off the scoot, I removed the cotter pin and crown thing then I took the the scoot off its center stand and put a block of wood behind the rear wheel to keep it from turning. I used my new 24mm socket with 1/2 in drive ratchet and a 3 foot section of pipe over it for leverage. I removed the nut pretty easy from here. I let the air out of the tire then went in the house to talk to my fish. The bead breaker clamp worked but only broke the bead on one side of the tire so I used a hammer to break the other side (not like pounding nails) but I used the wooden handle to push into the rubber and pushed my body weight down on the top of the hammer. I had a nice soft moving blanket underneath. With the bead broken on both sides I went back in the house and talked to the fish some more. Now the fun part. I had 3 small tire irons and some plastic from a 1 gallon water bottle I cut up and folded over to protect the rim. I did the leapfrog thing with the tire irons and the 1st side of the tire came off pretty easy and the 2nd side was the same leapfrog thing but it was a little tougher because now I have tire in my way where I did not on the 1st side. I got some soap in a cup with a little water and mixed it up with a small 1 inch paint brush. I used the brush to lube up the tire and started pushing the tire on the rim wich was on the floor on the moving blanket, I used the tire irons again to get both sides of the tire on. I did not see a balance marker on the tire and there were no weights on the rim. I took the tire down to the gas station and filled it until both beads popped into place maybe 30psi then adjusted it back to 26 psi. I got it home and put back on the scoot with a new cotter pin and away I rode. I did not use a torque wrench and not sure if it was critical for the rear wheel.

I did refer back to the post below many times during the process and may have never tried it without it.
addicted wrote:
Mechanically, doing the tire yourself isn't bad at all. It does take a bit of physical effort and some
time, and a few special tools.
Heres what you’ll need:
Bead breaker
3 GOOD tire irons
3 rim savers (plastic sheaths to protect the rim lip)
Soapy water

The tire is 'sealed' to the rim by air pressure; the
'bead' is sealed to the rim. it requires tremendous pressure to break the 'bead.' I recommend buying a
bead breaker rather than the "I'll jump on it" method, which can result in serious damage.
Through this whole process, make sure never to put undue pressure on the sprocket, or more
importantly, the rotor. I use a milk crate (not stolen from wawa, I promise), open side up, to place
the wheel on such that there’s no pressure on the rotor. Also, you don’t want tire-irons directly on
the rim lip, this can result in damage and an inadequate seal. Always place a rim-saver on the rim
before prying with the iron.
1. Use the breaker to break the beads. You’ll know when this happens because the tire suddenly
has a loose spot.
2. Wet the entire bead with some soapy-water (nice lubricant). Use an iron to pry the tire bead
of one side of the tire over the rim lip.
3. Using the other two irons, "leap-frog" around the rim, prying the bead over the lip. Repeat
until the entire bead for one side of the tire is off the rim.
4. Now turn the tire over. Using the iron, push the opposite side (the side of the tire you didn’t
work on) over the rim-lip (the same lip you just did work on).
5. Leapfrog again to get the whole thing off.
Congratulations!! The tire is off. Now time to reinstall.
Remove all balancing weights from the rim. Soap/water up the beads again (not too much this time)
Using your hands and body weight, push the entire one side of the tire over the rim. (tire should now
look like it did after step 3, above).
Using the tire irons, rim-savers, and leapfrogging, push the other bead over the same lip. (this can be
very physically demanding... its a very tight fit).
Now, the entire tire should be properly sitting inside the rim lips. It will looks 'loose,' however,
because the bead hasn't been set. This can be tough.
1. Remove the valve-stem cap
2. Using an air compressor (the good kind with the tank, not the little thing you plug in your
cigarette lighter - if you don’t have one, go to the gas station that has one ), pump 40-60
pounds into the stem, praying the bead will set (you'll know this because you'll hear two loud
and distinct POPs (one for each bead)).
3. If that didn't work, don’t sweat it. Use a ratcheting tiedow, compress the tire down into the
rim (this will force the beads towards the lips). Repeat step 1 above.
4. If that didn't work, put your tail between your legs and go beg the shop to do it for you.
While your there, ask them to balance. (they'll probably do both for a couple of bucks).
addicted wrote:
Quote:
I've got my bead breaker,3 tire irons, new tire, and a shop close by if I go crazy trying to change it myself.
You didn't list plastic rim protectors, Tim. You need them too. See if you can find a square of carpet, to put under the wheel as you straddle it. Let's not mar that rim. Wear canvas gloves, and old pants, when you're wielding the tire irons. Use soap; not oil, or anything petroleum based, on the rim or wheel.

For motivation, here's a sequence of a mere mortal changing tires for an apprentice.





Thank You,
Tim
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:51 pm quote
TFauch wrote:
Gary,

I did not use a torque wrench and not sure if it was critical for the rear wheel.

Tim
When I had mine changed they didn't torque it either. Told me it wasn't necessary because the nut and cotter pin held it on.
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
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Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:08 pm quote
Which tire irons did you use? I have the Motion Pro 16" curved ones, but they're pricey at $16.50 each. I'd also consider buying 1 Motion Pro T-6 24 MM tire iron, but they go for a whooping $29!

Something I recently learned, is a large bench vise (with wide jaws) makes an excellent bead breaker. I haven't tried it yet, but I can understand the advantage.

Last week, I read a post where the Harbor Freight tire changing station was (is?) on sale for $35, from their website. Another poster claimed the storefront locations will usually honor the website sale price. Someone who actually uses the Harbor Freight tire changing station, says he only uses it for the bead breaker, and holding the rim. He still uses conventional tire irons for removing, and installing, the tire. So, it sounds like it's a $35 bead breaker machine.

I had a thought about changing tires on these single-sided scooter setups. I wonder if it would be of any advantage to break the bead, mount the rim back on the scooter, and lever the tire off the rim. You would probably need someone to steady the scooter for safety, but it may help with leveraging the tire off the rim. What do you think about that idea?
Technical Moderator
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:24 pm quote
JerryG wrote:
TFauch wrote:
Gary,

I did not use a torque wrench and not sure if it was critical for the rear wheel.

Tim
When I had mine changed they didn't torque it either. Told me it wasn't necessary because the nut and cotter pin held it on.
I rarely use a torque wrench, Jerry. I always use an appropriately sized tool though. On a 24 MM axle nut, I use a 3/4" drive ratchet, with a 1 1/2 foot handle. For small bolts and nuts (8 MM - 12 MM), I use a 1/4" ratchet, with a 6" handle. I try to never apply excessive torque to the fastener. If you don't have a feel for the proper torque to apply, use a torque wrench.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1464
Location: Worcester, Ma USA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:36 am quote
I got my Bead breaker from JC Whitney and the 8" tire irons from S.I.P. Scootershop. Motion Pro looks like they have some good tire irons too. While looking for Harborfreight I found this site Motorcycle Tire Changing which seems to show some good pictures of where to place the tire irons.

addicted wrote:
I had a thought about changing tires on these single-sided scooter setups. I wonder if it would be of any advantage to break the bead, mount the rim back on the scooter, and lever the tire off the rim. You would probably need someone to steady the scooter for safety, but it may help with leveraging the tire off the rim. What do you think about that idea?
I'd say it's easier to do everything on the floor.

Tim
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Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:30 am quote
I've never been to Harbor Freight. There's one located about 40 miles from me, so I'm going to check it out today. Did you see this review of the Harbor Freight tire changing station? It has good pictures of the entire process.
http://www.4strokes.com/reviews/harborfreight/mctirechanger

Two posters stated that they don't bother using the motorcycle attachment anymore, they prefer to use only the base station.

I have my own method of breaking beads. I slide the tire under my truck, place a Porta-Power hydraulic jack between the tire bead and the truck's frame rails, and pump the jack to break the bead. Then I flip the tire over, and break the bead on the opposite side. A Porta-Power is a tool used to straighten car frames and bodies. It's also used as the "jaws of life" by rescue crew. Maybe that will give you some ideas for future tire changing.

Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Corona Ca
Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:50 am quote
I have th eharborfreight changer with the motorcycle attachment , it helps but not that much , just makesure to bolt it down good and cover up anything that you dotn want scratched and you ohave to use something stronger then duct tape because we scratched ap a brand new excel rim thinking duct tape would protect it
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