2009 MP3 500 engine swap? now my new project MP3
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Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:54 am quote
picked up abandoned bike for dirt cheap (250). no title and no keys. with research I found the owner was 90 years old when he passed away two years ago. inspiring. tag valid to july 2017 so it looked like it was ridden up to the end.. took front plastics off so I could get seat open. found the key card inside seat. called dmv and found I can get a bonded title for the bike and put it back on the road.

but not sure that is best course of action for me. I love my gts300. and having ridden maybe 25 different scooters from 50-650cc, the vespa hits a home run for me. my dream was to find a bv350 and install motor setup into a vespa frame. this engine I think is too bulky for that. my freind currently has a beo 500. we recently added sliders to that bike and the engine setup is just sweet. but at a measured 465lb curb weight its just a tank driving around. IMHO only enjoyable for highway cruise. but I think the engine would be a blast in a smaller bike.

my purpose for this thread is to see if anyone has seen someone transplant this engine into another bike? my biggest questions concerns what happens when all these sensors are disconnected? if making a two wheel most things sensor wise would not be used. and then the speedo. would really like a working speedo. but there is sensor on both wheels. will it work with one??









Last edited by jerryd on Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:38 am; edited 3 times in total
Member
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Netherlands
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:19 pm quote
For the front wheel sensors, you could try a single sensor connected to both sensor cables in parallel.

These sensors are just coils around magnets, like passive guitar pickups - they don't need a power supply or fancy serial data connection, so most likely they are connected to high-impedance input-only circuits that won't interfere with one another.

If it doesn't work with one sensor for two inputs, you could also use both sensors on one wheel.

Just make sure they see the same number of bolt heads for every revolution of the wheel as on the MP3
Member
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Netherlands
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:26 pm quote
As for the tilt lock system: just unlock the front before switching off the donor-scoot for the last time.

Then, before powering up the system again, make sure to connect every switch and sensor from the tiltlock system to the parking control unit in the state it was in when you unlocked the system (or use wire jumpers instead of the switches where possible) - and don't connect or use the tilt lock switch from the handlebar ever again.

The system will then "think" you unlocked the front, and just never locked it again, not knowing there isn't any "lockable front" around anymore
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7225
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:14 am quote
You can get Aftermarket computers for these motors to use on go karts. Read that in a thread a while ago, some guy got a 500 master motor and was going to use it in a go kart or something.
Member
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Netherlands
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:31 am quote
Another option to keep this project dirt cheap might be to use an old carburettor and CDI from another bike.

Requires some experience in dialing in carburettors and ignition systems though..
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:42 am quote
I love me some fuel injection though. not a fan of carbs at all. There are aftermarket fuel injection setups for 300-400 ish last I checked. they would give complete control over fuel and timing. I ordered decoding equipment. costs about double to have to pay someone to virginize ecu. I will get it running stock first to see what I have.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:51 am quote
got engine started this morning. fired right up. idles smooth. vibrates a bit when revving. hoping gas is just very low octane at this point. gonna put fresh gas in next.

still have no brakes. but can borrow a master from another bike just to see how it rolls down the road.

yellow tilt light beeps twice then flashes? the silver handle (which I assume is parking brake) with a cable going to it is not functioning. the cable is loosely connected. cable is likely broken

edit: so after reading how tilt light works it appears to be functioning correctly.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:59 am quote
drove bike 125km on sunday and fell in love. bike is staying an mp3. still want to do something different with it. new plans are a stripped down naked version. remove as much weight as possible.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 194
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:50 pm quote
Looks to be a 500, rather than a 250.

Glad you like it. I like mine a lot. Unfortunately, it's kind of a fatty- there isn't much you can remove other than the few plastic panels and replacing the 50 pound muffler with an aftermarket one.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:02 pm quote
I think I can get 75 off of it. It will still be porky for sure.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:03 pm quote
weighed bike at dump a few days ago. it weigh 560 lbs.

planned places to shave weight:
muffler 13 lbs
battery 9 lbs
parking brake ~2 lbs
hydrolock looks to be about ~10 lbs
front and rear bumpers ~15 lbs
misc plastic removal and lighter led headlights ~5-10 lbs

after that it gets tough. but remaking parts from lighter materials.

EDIT
actual weight savings:
tilt lock system 20.5 lbs
front bumper 10 lbs.
battery 3.5 lbs.
rr tire .5 lbs
parking brake 3.5 lbs.
rear grab bar. 7 lbs
misc small trim 5 lbs.
gtr 2 lbs.

Last edited by jerryd on Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:42 am; edited 5 times in total
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:22 am quote
took key card to lock smith and told him it was a fiat code. he found key cut data that way. but when he pulled the key blank from stock it wasnt a sidewinder key. so in short the key card was not for this bike.

being that this bike is headed toward being a naked bike or partially so I think I will be using a universal switch. I can also re purpose the antenna to new hidden position and retain chip function and security feature.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10832
Location: Oregon City, OR
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:42 pm quote
Squeazel wrote:
Looks to be a 500, rather than a 250.
Yes, the photo appears to be the MP3 500 (Gilera Fuoco) body, with the 500 (493cc) Master engine.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:54 am quote
two weeks 850km all in. loving the heck out of this MP3. IMHO these bikes are nothing short of brilliant.

bike $250
brake masters from 2016 $65
zippy front tires $85
17g sliders $55 (OMG!)
shinko rear tire 140/60-14 $45 (OMG all over again)
adj ebay levers $25
ESI silicon grips $15
2016 shocks fr/rr from ebay $210
malossi clutch/ contra $190

ebay dirt bike muffler and exhaust donut $72
EBC organic pads front $17


remove front bumper yesterday. its just shy of 10lbs. I ride every other day with friend and his beo 500 w/sliders. so when changes are made the difference is noticed. the ten lbs removed actually made about 1/2 bike length in my favor. but I think its because it slides through the wind better. not so much the weight maybe. anxious to get 50lbs off the bike. I stopped by roadside eviction and picked up about 35lbs of stuff. bike was way slower on the way home. I think 50 lbs will be very noticeable.

but that brings me to my big decision. whether to remove the fork locks or not. they are indeed "fun" to play with at lights. they would be missed. I think I will remove but leave everything in tact so it can be re-installed later if need be. I am 180 lbs and find the bike quite heavy at times. sometimes very difficult to get off the stand. even though I can flat foot at stop. plan to lower about 1.5 in rear. hopefully that will help.

Last edited by jerryd on Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:05 am; edited 4 times in total
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 65
Location: singapore
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:51 pm quote
if remove the front hydro pump and to activate the tilt lock by means of a parking brake?
get some weight off?
or remove the whole tilt lock pieces and replace by a side stand?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10832
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:21 am quote
echris108 wrote:
if remove the front hydro pump and to activate the tilt lock by means of a parking brake? get some weight off? or remove the whole tilt lock pieces and replace by a side stand?
If you remove or deactivate the tilt lock, haven't you removed the primary reason to own an MP3 instead of a BV500 or Scarabeo 500?
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4039
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:18 am quote
a 140/60???
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:09 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
a 140/60???
Just installed today shinko 140/60 to replace like new Michelin city grip 140/70.

launches better. accelerates better. stops better. handles better. far better throttle response. engine sounds better. absorbs bumps better. feels like I installed new rear shocks. and thats with Michelin at 25psi and the Shinko with 30psi. and then sticky. going through long intersection turns the rear tire was breaking loose on the michelin. Shinko grabs like glue.

in short. Love the smaller tire. I feel like I just traded up to a more expensive sport version mp3. fantastic modification.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4039
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:08 pm quote
and what is rate speed on those tyres ?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:37 am quote
Maksor wrote:
and what is rate speed on those tyres ?
S speed rated, 112mph. I saw it was stock size tire for Atlantic 500 so I thought worthy idea to try. I dont highway drive at all. just fast around town duty. so speed rating was of no importance to me.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:24 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
echris108 wrote:
if remove the front hydro pump and to activate the tilt lock by means of a parking brake? get some weight off? or remove the whole tilt lock pieces and replace by a side stand?
If you remove or deactivate the tilt lock, haven't you removed the primary reason to own an MP3 instead of a BV500 or Scarabeo 500?
I ridden both. there is no comparison in the riding experience. Tilt lock has nothing to do with it. The three wheels ad stability, handling, and braking. the ride quality is also night and day between the two. I wasnt impressed with the BEO. The MP3 rides like a Cadillac and handles like a Porsche. I am glad I dont have to choose between my GTS300 and this MP3 500.

Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:00 am quote
did a quick sound check with a dirtbike exhaust. weight saving will be at least 13. for sure needs a baffle to quiet it down. stock muff back on till my new donut gets here.




Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:43 am quote
so the new smaller tire was not a good match for 17g sliders. I upped to 18g and like the way the bike behaves with them. I will experiment more after new clutch/belt are installed.

I lowered the bike 1". I used existing brackets. cut them open at bottom and used a press to flatten . then drilled new holes one inch lower. I like the results.



I received my used 2016 shocks. they look different side by side. installed the rear and find the money well spent. they work far better than the old ones. most likely the old ones no longer had nitrogen charge. it was clear before install by hand compressing that the newer shocks were gonna ride nicer. looking forward to installing the front now.

Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:40 am quote
got front installed yesterday. also nice improvement over the originals.


clutch arrived. not expecting any performance improvement here. just hoping it smooths low end belt chatter.


have a harley heavy duty locking sidestand . this will take some effort custom install. but very much looking forward to ditching centerstand. I am average build just shy of 5.11" and I have trouble getting bike off centerstand. dont know how you shorter people do it. you must be doing it before getting on bike which I dont like to do. I like to just be sitting ready to go. then rock forward. with the slightest incline or soft ground this gets tough quick. usually have to use the front brake to save my forward progress. but worse then all that is there is not enough ground clearance. there wasnt enough stock, and with lower tire its horrible. almost wrecked bike this week. going around long sweeper, the road was shaded from trees. didt see this dip and the stand suddenly caught and rear tire left pavement a bit. came down with front end wobbling heading toward concrete wall. good thing front brakes are so dang good.


started playing with seat padding. this helps quite a bit but want to find better. need to find some gel. just gonna recover locally. didnt see any aftermarket seats that I liked.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7225
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:33 pm quote
I have always taken the bike off the center stand before getting on, unless I just forget because I rarely use the center stand.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:54 am quote
removed tilt lock system. savings was more than estimated. 20.5lbs.
bike drives great with out it. feels like a higher quality, more expensive bike.
Member
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Location: Sayre, PA
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:57 pm quote
Member
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Netherlands
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:02 pm quote
This is something I've been wanting tot try for a long time now.

Yesterday I had to push the bike backwards out of a dirt road on a slight incline. Not really tinking about what I was doing, I did this with the lock disengaged, the way I always did this this with two wheel scooters - without any trouble.

So I found out (again) that once you get used to the weight of the MP3, you can walk it around just like any other bike. The only thing I miss doing this is the sidestand.

Did you install the side stand yet?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:54 am quote
I havent done side stand yet. that step requires removing the lower plastics. I have done a bunch of planning as to how to make this bike lighter. while making it sportier to look at the same time. I installed different blinkers and some new front plastics. it looks better but no where near where I want it to be. plan on doing the distinguished gentlemen ride next month. want to have it looking good by then. more important I want my lean clearance back. so looking forward to my side stand install.

once I removed the front pump it became clear there was room in that spot to install the radiator higher. hidden behind fairing. but more important fish to fry first.




























i
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:10 am quote
project re-style well underway. teaser pics.
time wise I am maybe not 20% done.



Member
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Netherlands
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:39 am quote
Removing only part of the panels looks like an interesting concept.

It's more bike-like, less scooter - but without the weird look of a completely naked MP3.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:12 am quote
done right naked is potentially very cool. just way way more time consuming. ideally the frame should be stripped and painted a cool color like cherry red. while I used to embark on such projects I am getting old. and I dont want any down time. I ride every chance I get. so I am modding one small area at a time and riding out when I am done.

my goal is a lighter, smaller, sportier looking scooter that is still recognizable as a factory optioned MP3 sport..

it took about five hours to chop and sink the tail light. just to give an idea.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7225
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:10 am quote
jerryd wrote:
plan on doing the distinguished gentlemen ride next month.
MP3 500 doesn't qualify for the distinguished gentlemen ride unless it has changed for this year. A new Production scooter isn't really Unique.

"DGR is about the niches within the motorcycle community, consisting of motorcycles that you might not regularly see during your daily commute. If you can borrow or rent a suitable bike, and are dressed appropriately, we encourage you to register and join the ride. If not, and you’d still like to support the event, a donation is a wonderful way to do so, as well as reach out to your local organiser to help them behind the scenes as volunteers."

People commute to work on MP3's around the world every day.
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 65
Location: singapore
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:45 am quote
Did u have to bypass any electrical when u remove the front tilt locks?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:34 am quote
echris108 wrote:
Did u have to bypass any electrical when u remove the front tilt locks?
http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2344544#2344544
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super super. 09 MP3 500 super duper
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 325
Location: tampa
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:44 am quote
5lbs of misc stuff. this pile will grow.


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