2009 MP3 500 engine swap? now my new project MP3
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Hooked
2008 fuoco
Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 328
Location: United Kingdom.
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:03 pm quote
jerryd wrote:
yes the silencer is near 21 lbs. somehow someway that will be reduced. it will be my first focus after the body is done. I am considering cutting open the stock muff and rebuilding with lighter materials. if I am honest I love the way the stock exhaust sounds. and I am not crazy about loosing any torque with aftermarket muffs just to save 10-12 lbs. we'll see how we end up.
I think with the size of the under seat area you would be able to hide the original silencer . I must say for the small increase in noise ,for me the benefits of replacing with the leov is worth it. I am a enthusiastic user of it's bhp and have noticed no difference except for the handling improvement.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:53 am quote
3legsofman wrote:
Still think you want to junk the original silencer the weight saving as you know would be considerable ,i know your thoughts on keeping the noise down. What about putting the silencer under the seat by cutting out the potty ( underseat area) just like some ducatis and others.
The Ducati exhaust doesn't move up and down like a scooter exhaust.
Hooked
2008 fuoco
Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 328
Location: United Kingdom.
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:06 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
3legsofman wrote:
Still think you want to junk the original silencer the weight saving as you know would be considerable ,i know your thoughts on keeping the noise down. What about putting the silencer under the seat by cutting out the potty ( underseat area) just like some ducatis and others.
The Ducati exhaust doesn't move up and down like a scooter exhaust.
True never thought of that but were theres a will theres a way ( or relations)
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:55 pm quote
round one failed attempt at making this muffler sound good. looked quite good on bike. saves 13.5 lbs. have more mufflers to play around with that were being discarded. this will end up being very time consuming. I made muffler for last 4g63 turbo car I built. It sounds amazing and quiet. so I am driven to succeed here. problem with bike muffler is exhaust path is so very short and not much room to work with.














this how I fill holes before paint. counter sink on both sides. cover with thin plastic. work epoxy in till white disappears. if technique is good very little to no body filler will be needed.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:47 am quote
started sanding panels. was debating whether bike would look better with one of these modern flat paint jobs. I think it look pretty good.


ordered a KN filter to play with. read some threads on the pod filter. I like everyone claims more power. hate that everyone admits its loud. so I will be challenged to build a new box that flows better but is almost as quite as stock box. my first two thoughts. most pod filters being used are likely way more filter than needed. and two from car filter experience I did notice filters from ebay that proclaimed to work like KN did not in the sense they were noisy compared to KN of same size or even larger. ordered RU-5111. seeing in person I hope this is small enough to be able to build a muffler around it.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:11 pm quote
finally pulled valve cover to check valve clearance. if i had known how easy that would be I would have done it sooner. painted cover with a wrinkle black. while waiting for paint to dry I pulled the cvt cover and stripped the paint off. I like the raw look.


found a muffler from liter bike . weight saving wont be huge. ~10lbs. and the muffler is a couple inches longer than stock. but my quick sound check left me hopeful. surprisingly quiet. muffler will be easy to adapt as far as custom goes. it has a four bolt inlet flange. and quiet a bit a space to add additional sound deadening material in the first section if needed.


Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:20 am quote
made a quick mount so it could be driven. and I am thrilled. its a little louder than stock at idle and putting around. maybe 10% or so. not at all annoying. just slightly deeper, softer more expensive sounding. anything above 30mph is as quiet or more quiet than stock. sounds very nice. its a keeper. saves 11lbs. now to think about finial mounting methods to make it look like it belongs.




Last edited by jerryd on Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 259
Location: Belgium
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:26 pm quote
Why did you sand down the paint? The paint seemed like it was in OK shape.

Maybe you were going after that rat rod/distressed look?
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1074
Location: Toronto
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:37 pm quote
Cool project!
sbaert wrote:
Why did you sand down the paint? The paint seemed like it was in OK shape.

Maybe you were going after that rat rod/distressed look?
I think OP was going to repaint... he mentioned considering a modern matter finish, but then came to like the distressed look.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:05 pm quote
the panels paint wise were in poor shape and will be repainted. the matt looks quite good in person. the matt effect is not easily captured . camera adds sheen that is not there.

I do like the tron look to it with the sanded edges. its getting more compliments with the current look.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4206
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:39 am quote
1 tip use a good plastic primer and a sealer before spraying a base coat and finish
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am quote
so I thought wearing out the shinko in 4000 was maybe bad. guess not. here is the conti after 1000 miles.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:31 am quote
City Grips will be best for mileage and handling.
Pirelli Angles sound like they might be good too.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6148
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:39 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
City Grips will be best for mileage and handling.
Pirelli Angles sound like they might be good too.
+1
I get ~8000-9000 miles on my City Grip rear tires.
Very good in heavy rain, too.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 259
Location: Belgium
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:03 am quote
I concur. I got nearly 13K miles (just over 20K kms) out of the City Grips. Just put on a new set a couple of months ago.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:49 am quote
glad you guys like city grips. thats what I took off the rear when I got it. slipped in corners real bad. it has 80% tread left. its for sale for a 20 if anyone want it. after I go through the second conti I want to try the diablo next
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:32 am quote
I can scrape my center stand on my MP3 500 with no tire slide.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:27 pm quote
I am running a 60 series. so its not gonna last as long. plus you guys have no idea how hard I ride. I only get 45-47mpg. I dont want a heavy tire on the bike that is gonna last a long time. The bike is blister fast right now with the tread gone already. but 1500 miles is strange. the front contis have 5500 and will easily go double/triple that. I am wondering if maybe these tires are actually softer than they are supposed to be? maybe thats why they were on sale? I know I like the shinko and its cheap. just didnt care how the tread looked thats the only reason I tried these contis. no biggie. the journey continues.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:17 am quote
I ordered some inexpensive graphite bushings from china but they did not arrive usable. I also order the smaller version of this titanium muffler. It is substantially smaller and 1lb lighter. My hope was the inlet flange was the same and I could swap back and forth easy enough to see what I like better. but they are different size. I remade my temporary mount with better attention to detail. gonna leave it be as is. I call it a steam punk mount. But it does function well. It allows header expansion and there is zero leaking.

zx9 vs stock

zx9 vs zx12

interesting about these mufflers is the first section of muffler is about 7 inches deep. the two adapter pipes shown here have VERY different sounds. the shorter pipe was very musical and a tad loud at WOT. but coasting to stop was where the sound was amazing. engine braking was very musical. the longer pipe is like 5db reduction in sound volume. nearly silent engine braking, no louder than stock anywhere (rider position) and a good bit more silent in some areas. I havent yet played with other pipe lengths but my plan was to have two and swap them out with tire changes.




design of adapter: there is inner pipe that is same diameter as header pipe. then the flex pipe fit snug over that. when flange is welded on they become one. there is about 1.5 inches of flex pipe that slides over header. about 2x10inches of heat wrap holds it to pipe and quells any escaping gas. which is very small amount. the ring used to mount is from 3" vband setup. I tried it oriented both ways and it seals the gasket better on the small side. originally planned to make shield to cover the ugly mounting method. but with use the mounting method work very well and becomes cool instead.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:33 pm quote
my thoughts on shocks. installed 2016 shocks last year. they were from a wrecked bike with a reported 3000 miles. they were a wonderful improvement over the worn out 2009 units. since removing substantial weight from bike and adding 6500 hard miles the ride quality is getting more and more race like. especially noticeable is when I have 100lb passenger on board. its a "wow, wish the bike ride this nice all the time" moment. and with the realization all the aftermarket shocks are generally gonna be valved stiffer than stock I had little desire on trying any that were made for the bike.

researched long and hard on what I wanted to try to improve things. and these are the things important to me in no particular order. float like ride quality, shaving weight, nice new look . easily modified, easily rebuilt.

with those goals in mind. I purchase a Fox shock. wish me luck.


Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:12 am quote
jerryd wrote:
my thoughts on shocks. installed 2016 shocks last year. they were from a wrecked bike with a reported 3000 miles. they were a wonderful improvement over the worn out 2009 units. since removing substantial weight from bike and adding 6500 hard miles the ride quality is getting more and more race like. especially noticeable is when I have 100lb passenger on board. its a "wow, wish the bike ride this nice all the time" moment. and with the realization all the aftermarket shocks are generally gonna be valved stiffer than stock I had little desire on trying any that were made for the bike.

researched long and hard on what I wanted to try to improve things. and these are the things important to me in no particular order. float like ride quality, shaving weight, nice new look . easily modified, easily rebuilt.

with those goals in mind. I purchase a Fox shock. wish me luck.
My BV 350 and MP3 500 both had softer ride with the Bitubo.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 259
Location: Belgium
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:46 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
...

My BV 350 and MP3 500 both had softer ride with the Bitubo.
^This X 10. I think a better way to describe it is "firm, but compliant" vs. the stock Piaggio shocks which have the suspension characteristics of a piece of wood.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:02 pm quote
I bought bitubo shocks for my dragster 180 years back. very nice shocks indeed.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:48 pm quote
sbaert wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
...

My BV 350 and MP3 500 both had softer ride with the Bitubo.
^This X 10. I think a better way to describe it is "firm, but compliant" vs. the stock Piaggio shocks which have the suspension characteristics of a piece of wood.
Soft was the wrong term to use. Smoother ride.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:34 pm quote
cut some experimental brackets to mount shock. original shocks are 16". fox shock is 17". I already modded stock mount one inch lower. Now I need at least another inch. I wouldn't mind trying even lower. I am tippy toe at lights. I think the lowering brackets on ebay are 2" lower. but this will be a starting point to see where I am at. I pump the shock up to 50lbs and can tell I wont need more than that. at 50 it is substantially stiffer than the two stock shocks. so I believe I will be at 30/35ish range to get spring rate I need. at that pressure there is gonna be more sag. but since this shock also has 5in. travel where the stocker was 4 that may not be an issue. started raining as soon as I finished brackets.


poor car gets no attention these days
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:12 am quote




I started with 90/55 psi (evol/main) and rebound at 10 clicks (middle)
It road stiff but after first few times lowering air pressure I was hopeful I could get by with just making more adjustments. but after a dozen such adjustments I realize I will indeed need to re-valve internally. I ended with 60/30 psi and rebound on its fastest setting. in about 80% of circumstances it rides about like the stock shocks. where it gets really stiff is when tire returns to ground quickly. like when driving slowly off two inch drop. second to that shock progression is much faster than the stock shock. on both ends. it starts out much softer, but with shock travel it progresses to stiffer than stock much faster than the stock shock. no fear I will get exactly the shock I am after with valving changes.

ride height. stocks shocks at 16 in. fox at 17 I figured I would need to drop my mount another inch. turns out ride height dropped two inches. and I already had one inch. so I am three inches lower than stock. love the lowered look, love being able flat foot finally, love new seat comfort. but there is huge problem with all that. head tube angle changes and I dont like the effect. steering response is more relaxed, too relaxed for me. and I also scrape over steep speed bumps where there was none before. so I will need to make final mount with less drop,

love the new look, so much cleaner looking. so much easier to wash rear wheel. cant go back to dual shocks, no way jose.

how to weigh an mp3. results 118 +122 + 240

update: made a bracket pattern to raise shock by 1.5 inches. but weather was too nice and went for a ride instead of cutting new bracket. it didnt take much ride time before I realized the benefits of relaxed steering angle. the biggest being a slow speed maneuvers are easier to execute especially a dead slow uturn is literally ten times easier. gotta say I could quite easily get used to this ride height.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 620
Location: tampa
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