Impulse Buy
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Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 129

Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:17 am quote
Content deleted by tenders. A forum where management/moderators repeatedly quash and delete well-intentioned, constructive concerns about governance issues raised by multiple users does not deserve my participation.

Last edited by tenders on Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1432
Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:47 am quote
Since you opened up the oil pump, wouldn't it be wiser to change the gasket between the carb bowl and the engine??

gasket-ve13059-500x500.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:07 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
FYI, those two little screws on the petcock are normally loose. If you tighten them up all the way, it can make it VERY difficult to turn the lever on and off. At the same time, if they are too loose, fuel can leak out. There's definitely a happy medium for having a few loose screws.
Thanks Whodat - I figured this out when I took it apart. It'll be easy, but not too easy when I'm done with it.
tenders wrote:
That Marine Goop stuff doesn't give me a very good feeling...and I have a marine repair background. I'd suggest wiping down the surface around the cracks with acetone, roughing up the surface a little with 120 grit paper, rerubbing with acetone, and using a dollop of JB Weld. Epoxy >> Goop.
Great suggestion Tenders! Thank you. I'll do just that. I didn't feel all that good with it either, but it's not seeping from those cracks either. Regardless, better safe than sorry - JBWeld it is!
SaFiS wrote:
Since you opened up the oil pump, wouldn't it be wiser to change the gasket between the carb bowl and the engine??
Yup, plan on it - thanks Safis!

And LuckyBear - you are more than welcome!
Hooked
1966 Sprint 150 & px200 and a shed full o shit
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 113
Location: New Zealand
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:00 pm quote
....but it's not seeping from those cracks either. Regardless, better safe than sorry - JBWeld it is!

HI,

My PX leaks oil onto the floor boards from overfilling the autolube. I know I shouldn't but on a long trip I do it to get rid of the empty bottle. Just fill it half way up his neck and see how you get on.

Cheers,

PC
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:36 pm quote
PC73 wrote:
My PX leaks oil onto the floor boards from overfilling the autolube. I know I shouldn't but on a long trip I do it to get rid of the empty bottle. Just fill it half way up his neck and see how you get on.
Thanks PC. I'll try that overnight while I've got it hanging! Better go put some more oil in it right now!
Hooked
1966 Sprint 150 & px200 and a shed full o shit
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 113
Location: New Zealand
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:43 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
PC73 wrote:
My PX leaks oil onto the floor boards from overfilling the autolube. I know I shouldn't but on a long trip I do it to get rid of the empty bottle. Just fill it half way up his neck and see how you get on.
Thanks PC. I'll try that overnight while I've got it hanging! Better go put some more oil in it right now!
For normal use its fill the neck tube until half way up. If filled right up mine will slowly leak.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:32 pm quote
I filled the oil tank up to about 3 inches from the top of the filler tube. If it doesn't leak or seep from the tank fitting, I'm calling it good and installing. Time to get this baby running!

20181004_201516_resized.jpg
The oil in the hose is how high I filled the neck with oil.

Hooked
Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 207
Location: Ohio USA
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:53 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
FYI, those two little screws on the petcock are normally loose. If you tighten them up all the way, it can make it VERY difficult to turn the lever on and off. At the same time, if they are too loose, fuel can leak out. There's definitely a happy medium for having a few loose screws.
Thanks Whodat - I figured this out when I took it apart. It'll be easy, but not too easy when I'm done with it.

Top tip: smear the fuel tap seal with a bit of Molybdenum grease, that makes it work smooth, and provides a bit of a barrier for Ethanol fuel. And, as mentioned, mind the screw tension.

I've had bikes stored for years with this treatment and the fuel taps still operate smoothly. Especially important with the US/DOT gear drive fuel tap levers!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:05 pm quote
vma1racer wrote:
Top tip: smear the fuel tap seal with a bit of Molybdenum grease, that makes it work smooth, and provides a bit of a barrier for Ethanol fuel. And, as mentioned, mind the screw tension.
Thanks for the tip vma - will do!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:55 pm quote
Progress...but no go
Put the tank back in and connected everything back up. Managed to get it running for about 30 seconds, then it just died. Same behavior as before. At least now I've got the fuel system working properly.

So I took a look at the wires at the CDI. 3rd from left wire is holding on by two strands! Someones been in there before because the green wire isn't on the outside of the connection box. So I moved the rubber boots and gently lifted the connection box to check out the wires. They looked OK going into the engine. Only the one wire is sketchy for about 3 inches.

I did wire up an external plug a'la Voodoo to check spark. It's sparking, but it seems weak. I also ensured the green wire is working by checking spark with the kill switch off and on, and also the green wire unplugged from the CDI. And I tightened the NGK plug cap on the spark plug wire.

So tomorrow I think I'm going to do a wire patch of that sketchy wire and give it a go. I want to get this machine running. If it runs, then I'll know it's the wire and the stater will need to be rewired at some point sooner rather than later. At least I'd be able to warm the engine up!

Also, I've got my P200 that I can borrow parts from, like the CDI, carb, etc. I KNOW the carb is fine though, as well as the fuel tap. (Never fail, when you think you know! Ha!)

So my homework for this evening is to check out what the heck that wire actually is for! OK, Pics or it didn't happen - I know!

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Why isn't the green on the outside track? Somebody's been in here before...

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Hmmm, that wire third from the left looks sketchy...

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Here is all four wires. Only one is jacked.

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Could this wire be why it won't stay running?!?

Hooked
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 406
Location: MN
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:23 pm quote
I sure wish I had a friend like qascooter

Fatbear, you are lucky indeed. I think the name change is very fitting. When do you finally get to meet your thoroughly primped and preened mail-order bride?

Qa-the hanging fuel tank situation looks smart. Hope the tap works for you on the first go round.

I think Ruby looks pleased in that last pic to have a vintage pal in the garage.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:58 am quote
Kimono32 wrote:
I sure wish I had a friend like qascooter

Qa-the hanging fuel tank situation looks smart. Hope the tap works for you on the first go round.

I think Ruby looks pleased in that last pic to have a vintage pal in the garage.
But you do! And thanks - hanging the tank was one of my better ideas - the tap works perfectly, now that it's new.

And Ruby is liking the vintage company. I think she might change her mind if I start pilfering parts off her to get Flo running.

Dont worry Ruby, only temporary...
Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:23 pm quote
Boy, you can say that again Kimono32... qascooter is not only a great VespaBuddy, he's also a really nice guy. I am Luckybear indeed!

We're both scratching our heads now though over our current 30 second run time problem. qascooter has confirmed that the fuel flow is good so that leaves us having to deal with electrical issues... which are always a pain.

We've got plenty of time though... I won't be visiting my family in Oregon until March although I'm tempted to make an earlier visit though... if only to meet my new bride.

Luckybear (Formerly Fatbear)
Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:18 pm quote
"Well there's your problem!"... I guess we're going to have to replace those wires from the junction box to the CDI, but I don't know what gauge they are. I'm guessing 16 gauge. Can anyone confirm please?

Luckybear

20181006_143426_resized.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:00 pm quote
Flo's a go...I repeat...Flo's a go!
I got her running! Woohooo! I had to do the victorious stupid dance - no, I'm not going to film it!

So here's the skinny - I studied the wiring diagram for about 12 hours, and reviewed this thread: 1980 Vespa P200E Stator with 7 wires..Replacement??? A big thanks to MJRally and Rob Hodge.

Next was to replace a chunk of the stater ground wire (see, I learned what that wire was for!). Hmmm - it still wouldn't start. Then I remembered - I still had the green wire plugged in, and it was looking ratty as well. As soon as I unplugged this, Flo started right up and kept running fine. Oh, forgot to mention that I mixed a gallon of 2% for the first tank to ensure the autolube has a chance to do its thing. And it's working because I saw the small bubble slowly disappear.

The Stater wires need to be replaced (ratty, brittle wires) but for now she's running!

So the list now is as follows (in no particular order):

1) Mount two new tires and save the current best for spare.
2) fix loose rear taillight.
3) Clean up clutch cover and engine mount when tire is removed.
4) remove exhaust and paint
5) Polish up the bike in general
6) Lube cables, specifically shifter cables (but all cables while headset is off).
7) Adjust shifter cables.
clean shifter box (Ruby needs this done also)
9) New stater wires
10) Run a new green wire
11) Maybe paint the rims
12) File big gouges out of right side trim and polish trim.
13) Change gear oil
14) Insure, register, and ride, ride, ride.

20181007_135246_resized.jpg
Checking resistance (ohm) readings of the stater. Red & Green = 598 ohms. Seems high, but the wires need to be replaced regardless.

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Checking resistance (ohm) readings of the stater of the other two wires. White & Red = 112 ohms

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:30 pm quote
Today, I took Flo up and down the neighborhood hill by my house a bunch of times. She's running strong and feels good! It doesn't feel to lean but what do I know. The plug looks alright but I haven't done any 4th gear WOT then then cut the engine and pull in the clutch, then check the plug. I did this about 50 times with the Bajaj.

While she was warmed up, I changed the gear oil...and....it looked good also! Not syrup, not glitter paint, no chunkage! Phew! So it looks like LuckyBear has lucked out on another item. For the deal he got, all seems to be working fairly well.

We've decided that I'll pull the stater (he's sending me a flywheel puller - the Bajaj one I have doesn't fit) and send it to him for rewiring. Then he'll send it back and I'll reinstall. In the meantime I can get to some of the other items on the list.

We'll have Flo ready to go in time for LuckyBear to ride - hassle free. BUT, his brother in law dropped it off here and I could see the glint in his eye when he looked at Ruby and the GTS in the garage that he's getting the itch to ride. (He's an ole Harley rider). So LuckyBear may let him ride it after I'm done with it. We'll see, his choice.

Here is a pic of the oil that came out...

20181009_132212_resized_1.jpg
Not too dirty, full of metal flakes, or chunky, or frothy. Score!

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:37 pm quote
Puller
LuckyBear ordered a flywheel puller from HotRodScooterParts and it arrived today - Thank you LuckyBear! So I got busy and pulled the flywheel and removed the stater. I'm going to send it to him tomorrow to have it rebuilt. Frayed wires aren't a good thing...

I did a first pass cleaning on the case and flywheel and plan on running a new green ground wire while I'm waiting for the stator to make it's way back.

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That flywheel is going to come off easily with the proper tool. Kinda greasy...

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Closeup of the ground wire getting worn down by the crankshaft - yikes!

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It's pretty dirty in there - let's see if we can clean it up a bit, shall we?

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That's better...

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Got a layer off the flywheel too.

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Frayed wires...

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:53 pm quote
A little progress
OK, the stator (stater?) is back. I sent it to Luckybear and his friend rebuilt it. I received it back last week with his spare helmet. I finally got to installing it today. But first I cleaned up the wire connection holder with pointy Q-tips and also cleaned up the legshield. I didn't get very far because, well, just because.

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It's a little dirty in there.

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That's better...

20181110_164124_resized.jpg
Newly redone stater. Not as nice as I've seen (Gick comes to mind) but way better than I probably would've done!

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Fishing wires through the case hole - that sounds dirty. :-)

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Wires all in the block - Almost ready to close it up.

20181111_132511_resized_1.jpg
Spliced a longer ground wire - I might be able to get away without having to replace the green wire. We'll see soon!

Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:39 am quote
sorry I don't know how to delete this post

Last edited by Fatbear5 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 am quote
Philos wrote:
Fatbear5 wrote:
Yes, SoCalGuy that does help a lot. My current Idle jet is marked “38-120” so I’m guessing that on Voodoo’s chart that would be a “38”. I see that the Rally 180 takes a “50” slow run jet but I have found catalog listings for 50/100 , 50/120, 50/140 and so forth, but I have no idea which of those would I want to run Any suggestions?

Sorry, but while I’m comfortable working with the main stack, I’ve never worked with the idle jet before and I’m thinking that because the main stack appears to be incorrect for this20/20 carb, perhaps the idle jet is wrong as well. Hence, all my questions.
Fatbear.. I used this chart to find jet sizes to get back to standard setting.

http://scooterlounge.com/vespa/reference-library/vespa-stock-jetting-reference-guide.shtml

Does this help?

PS: Sorry.. I just saw Voodoo already put the same chart up!! Doh!
Philos I sent you a PM in response to yours of last night but it seems to be stuck in my MV outbox so here is what I wrote. " I'm sorry but I don't know who you are or to what your are referring and I have no idea what prompted such a vitriolic comment. Please advise." I also sent you my direct email address.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:27 pm quote
Flo's Alive!
I got her running today. Cleaned up the green ground wire that runs through the chassis - replaced about 8" of it and put a new connector. Also fixed the neutral light ground wire.

I put back the stator to the marks that I made when I took it out because it was running before. Then installed the flywheel and torqued it down, and grounded the CDI. I used magnets to attach the timing wheel and found TDC with a bamboo skewer - it took a couple of tries (OK, like 20!), then made a mark at 23 degrees BTDC.

Took the scooter outside and she started up on the 2nd kick! I let Flo warm up while I got the timing light hooked up and voila - right on the mark. Tomorrow (or the next day) i'll button it up and take it for a spin.

This is the first time I've timed a Vespa, so it's a learning process. I've watched Robot's youtube and a couple others, so I'm pretty sure I got the process correct. It also helped that the scooter was running well and I marked the stator before I took it out.

After running it for a bit, the next thing will be a well deserved rubbing compound and wax job.

20181112_151659_resized.jpg
Timing wheel (printed on card stock and laminated) held on with magnets.

20181112_172811_resized.jpg
Timing mark at 23 degrees BTDC and its right on the mark. Pay no mind to the other mark to the left - It took me a few tries to get TDC and measure backwards properly. Doohhh@

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:45 pm quote
I haven't done much on this scooter in the last few days. I did go over it with rubbing compound and polished. I also used 303 Protectant on all the rubber & plastic bits. Oh, the mirrors had something on them that wouldn't clean off, so I used chrome polish and wow, they are nice and clean, and protected.

It's crazy, the grey paint just doesn't show that it's been waxed. Oh well, at least the grime will whisk off now, for a while at least.

20181115_163953_resized.jpg
See the crap on the mirror - I cannot even scrape off with my fingernail.

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That's better - Jeeze I've got a bunch of crap hanging up in the garage!

20180815_172549_resized.jpg
This is the chrome polish I used. Works great on chrome - and glass apparently.

Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:45 pm quote
Wow, that's impressive! Flo is looking good... can't wait to get a chance to ride her!

Luckybear
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:35 pm quote
It's official
Flo is on the road. I took it to the gas station today and drove around a little bit - about 8 miles. I even got daring enough to wind her up after she warmed up, and all was well. I didn't bring enough bungy cords though to keep the gas on the back rack. It only fell off once! So the floorboard it is - and the front brake is way better than Ruby's.

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Glamour shots by the river.

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You wouldn't know it, but I did the whole rubbing compound and wax, and 303 Protectant on all rubber and plastic. Who cares, she's running! :-)

20181123_105035_resized_1.jpg
Compression check - all good.

Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:47 pm quote
Wow!... that is great! I'm so glad do see the Flo is performing up to expectations. Now that she is, I'm going to tell you something I never thought I'd ever say to another man... Go ahead and ride My Lady just as long and as hard as you like!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:28 pm quote
Well, I've gotta say, Flo is running fine and I'm ready to hand her over to Luckybear. Today Flo got to try out my new Christmas gift - a Harbor Freight Lift! Very nice. I adjusted both brake cables and the clutch cable with ease and at a great height. Yes, I feel spoiled.

But anyway, I've used Flo to run errands to the Post Office, Store, Gas Station, Post Office, Bank, etc. She's running great. Starts cold on the 1st kick (with choke) and on the 2nd kick when nice and warm, and just a touch of throttle. All lights work and electrical is all good. Even the kill switch works! The green wire solder is working well.

Time to turn my attention back to Ruby and change the front brakes (again). I can't stomach ponying up the cash to do a disc conversion - yet.

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Getting a lift!

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Hanging out with the other type of scooter in front of the store.

Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 566
Location: Fresno, CA
Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:46 pm quote
She’s Done! After 4 months of cleaning, adjusting, tweaking and general babying, Flo has been moved to her permanent home in my mother’s garage. Flo was in a more “challenging’ condition than I thought when I bought her sight unseen on Craig’s List but luckily for me, my friend qascooter was bored and looking for a project. As they say, “A marriage made in heaven”.

He did a great job on Flo and on her latest run she fired up on the second kick and made the 6 or 7 mile run to my mom’s house flawlessly. I now have a great running scooter and qascooter had fun making it happen. Win-Win!

Luckybear
(Formerly Fatbear)

20181209_141853_resized.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:28 pm quote
It was a fun project! Here is what was done, to recap:

Replaced a bunch of rotted rubber bits
Changed the gear oil
Sent stator to you to be rebuilt
Installed rebuilt stator and verified timing
Cleaned and rebuilt carburetor
Replaced fuel petcock
Fixed leaky oil tank
Replaced oil and fuel line
Checked torque on hubs
Fixed ground wire (last six inches was toast)
Fixed neutral light
Lubed and adjusted all cables
Cleaned and lubed throttle and shift tubes
Removed sidestand (and installed on my scooter)
Replaced and rotated tires
Cleaned up the entire bike (compount, polish, wax), including fenderwells
Straightened out the bent stand
Replaced a couple of blinker bulbs
Put dielectric grease on all connections under the horncast and regulator/battery area
Rode it a bunch!

It was again, a fun project. I think the best part will be when Luckybear gets his ass up here, he'll be able to ride whever he goes instead of drive. One of the nicest drives around is up the coast to Yachats. I love that stretch of coastline.

Oh, and I got a petcock removal tool and a flywheel puller also. Necessary to do the work and I didn't have the tools, so Jeff sent them up for my measly speciality tool collection. It's getting bigger though. And when I delivered the scooter, I conveniently forgot to bring the box of spare parts for Flo. If he wants them, he'll have to come for a visit!

Thanks for following along!
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