eliminating tilt lock system on mp3
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Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:05 pm quote
I searched and couldnt find exactly what I was looking for.

I want to remove everything "tilt lock" from my 2009 mp3 500. I read there were bikes offered with no tilt lock system. I would like to see parts diagram for such a bike. or a thread where someone did this.

I am new to MP3 ownership. rode bike all day long. I simply find no real need for the tilt lock system. I would rather simplify the bike and make it lighter and more reliable. I am not looking for opinions about why this should not be done. Only support that it can be done.

I originally had plans to use engine in lighter two wheel project. But those plans quickly changed when I put seat time on three wheels. quite frankly just fell in love with the unique driving dynamics of the vehicle. Its a completely new challenge that I quite enjoy. completely different experience than riding my vespa 300. My new plans are to shave as much weight as possible off the vehicle. make it as light and nimble as possible.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4052
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:50 pm quote
it was a 125 thatcame a without and it did have caburated engine

and what you want won't work the neck of the mp3 is to long to fit a leg from a vespa even a triple tree from a X9 won't fit

if you disconnect the parking ecu the bike wont'work dash parking ecu and throttlebody are all connecto to each other

and if you loose the parking ecu it won't loose weight
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:56 am quote
there are no computer issues when the sensor is left plugged into harness. if you would read what I wrote the bike is staying a three wheeler. just going to make a stripped down naked version.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 212
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:01 am quote
It might be a little difficult. If I get what you're asking, it's to completely remove the tilt lock motor and all the sensors and hydraulics and such. You would still need to keep the tilt-lock computer, just spoof it into thinking it's doing what you want.

Here are a couple of things:

Spoof the seat sensor into thinking you're always sitting on it by jumpering it with a 3K ohm resistor.

Spoof the hydraulic pressure switch by making it close when the tilt lock is turned on, and open when it's turned off. Maybe use a relay to do this? I don't know. I also could have the operation backwards- it might be open-on and closed-off.

There might be another sensor built into the tilt-lock motor. That would need to be spoofed as well.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm quote
yes, I have run bike with pressure switch open (not connected) and the pump sensor plugged into harness but removed from pump. the bike runs with no warning lights. so it appears I can now remove all the hydro and mechanical stuff on the front. Only other concern would be to make sure switch for lock is never turned on. it would be a bit of a nitemare to get it ride able again if that happen.
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 73
Location: singapore
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 am quote
pump sensor?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:09 am quote
some update on my testing. I tried unplugging locking computer with ecu connected. bike starts but only idle present. when plugged back in the idle only condition remain. to clear code the lock system must be turned on. This concerns me if down the road the tilt computer looses connection or goes dead I would need to be able to turn it on again to satisfy ecu. not sure what that would take with hardware removed from bike. of course these same fears would be present with an intact working system. and there are certainly plenty of threads of locking system malfunctions. ideally I think I should install something like a micro squirt ecu and never have to worry about it. that way I can also tune for optimum power.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:42 am quote
updating my own thread if anyone down the road wants to follow. since october of last year been driving bike with just one wheel sensor disconnected. added 3500 miles to bike. this was only way I could find to get bike to drive without the tilt lock system working. I tried disconnecting each sensor one by one and various things happened. some of which were either loud horn basting or idle only conditions.

wanted to make progress on this amazing machine. removed all tilt lock components last night.

rear brake lever switch= tied continuous.
tilt cable brake micro switch =tied continuous
hydro motor position switch (three wire) = removed but connected to harness
pressure switch = left open
tilt lock motor for cable brake = left open
two wheel sensors = one connected, one open

this works fine. but leaves switch and pump motor wiper switch connected to harness. I havent pulled out multi-meter yet to see if they can be removed somehow. will update when that is done. likely when I do my seat I will have some resistors handy.

shaves 20.5lbs. and I love the change . front end operates with overall better precision.

Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 73
Location: singapore
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:27 am quote
If mine tilt lock is to fucked one day,i like to convert it to a full mechanical lock.
Keep the caliper and pull it mechancially by a lever and remove all the electronic stuff and pump.do i really need the suspension lock?
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:23 pm quote
My plan is to just reroute the handbrake cable to the tiltlock caliper as soon as the tiltlock system stops working for some reason.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:50 pm quote
I live in florida and its pretty flat here so the handbrake was long gone already. plus in my opinion a hand brake should clamp front brakes not the back. locking the rear does nothing when bike is on center stand. a simple strap on brake lever serves this purpose well.

what would be pretty usefull is to engineer the hand lever to lock all three calipers in front or the rear and the front tilt caliper.

but for me I dont miss the features I eliminated from my bike.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:45 am quote
jerryd wrote:
I live in florida and its pretty flat here so the handbrake was long gone already. plus in my opinion a hand brake should clamp front brakes not the back. locking the rear does nothing when bike is on center stand. a simple strap on brake lever serves this purpose well.

what would be pretty usefull is to engineer the hand lever to lock all three calipers in front or the rear and the front tilt caliper.

but for me I dont miss the features I eliminated from my bike.
Tell me what motorcycle locks the front brake when it is on the center stand? what would the purpose of this be?
How is it going to ROLL AWAY on the center stand?? Don't get it
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:05 am quote
your right the center stand comment makes no sense. my mistake.

but my thoughts were the parking brake is only useful if the tilt lock is functioning. so it makes no sense to move cable from parking brake to the tilt brake. they both need to be functioning so bike will stand without putting on the stand.
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:07 am quote
The reason I would move the cable from parking brake to tilt lock caliper is to keep some of the stability for walking with the bike, not for parking.

A sidestand would be my favorite solution for parking in this scenario, since the scoot is not stable enough without the hydraulic suspension locks - it will stand on its own, but it's easier to tip over without the locks.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:07 am quote
thats a good point, I agree that would be a nice feature when moving bike around while you are not on it. as a three wheeler the bike has no additional stability when pushing it around, it acts just like a heavy two wheeler in that instance.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 138
Location: Gilroy, California
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm quote
My tilt lock stopped working on it's own some time ago. It's probably from a lack of use months after I bought it in '09. I find maneuvering the bike quite easy without any assistance from the tilt lock. My seat sensor also stopped working some time ago, so I have to be careful with the throttle if I'm not actually on it.
No idle stall for me. So while removing that dead weight for me would make sense given the situation, I'll just leave it the way 'Mario' made it since it isn't causing any problems.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:02 pm quote
small update here.

had an issue a couple weeks ago. going over bumpy railroad tracks. the yellow tilt light starts flashing accompanied by three medium beeps that keeps repeating. I was about 2 miles from the house and didnt want to drive home listening to the beeps. I remember not securing the wiper switch to frame so it was able to move around. it needs to stay connected to harness to keep tilt ecu happy. so I stopped and pulled over to fiddle with the wiper switch. memory doesnt serve me well exactly what I did. bike restarted and the code was cleared and I drove home everything normal.

this did put fear in my heart. dont want this happening on the regular.

on this past sunday I go for my favorite ride to downtown and davis island. 10 miles from home. I hit similar bumps and same thing happens. but this time I didnt get so lucky. I fiddled with sensor and this time the code advanced to a more disabled state. even louder longer constant beep. and the worse idle only condition.

I disconnected battery in hopes codes would clear. I know they clear overnight. but wasnt sure exactly how long that takes. I gave it 30 minutes but it wasnt long enough. I like this bike too much to leave unattended. so I decided to push bike home. It took two hours to get to get about half way. at which point I conceded I was gonna be really tired if I completed this feat. so I called my wife. she was of course eager to help by now and is really worried. we roped towed the bike the rest of the way home.

I didnt touch the bike the next day. I was indeed very tired but also very worried I wasnt gonna be driving this bike again after I reconnected battery. I removed the wiper switch from bike and installed on the tilt lock mechanism to get the switch in the correct orientation. then reinstalled on bike. connect battery. started right up. no codes ready to drive. the switch mounted immovable this time. but I want to find a more permanent solution to this.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:02 pm quote
Try doing a wiggle test on the wires going to the front wheels sensors.
Tilt lock fluid is full, right?
I can never remember what gives how many beeps.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21409
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:13 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Try doing a wiggle test on the wires going to the front wheels sensors.
Tilt lock fluid is full, right?
I can never remember what gives how many beeps.
the op has removed the tilt lock assy so no fluid.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:32 pm quote
possible solutions.

measure sensor wires with dmv and build circuit to supply what ecu needs to see. if this sensor fails while driving you are walking home. the sensor is hella expensive at dealer. if they were cheap I would just buy a spare and keep on the bike.

the tuning software may be able to disable right at ecu.

if complete maps can be loaded from one ecu to the next I will load map from beo 500 and tune from there.

least desirable is aftermarket ecu. if that has to happen I am gonna turbocharge this bike to make it worth my time.
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:55 pm quote
The position sensor is just a plain potentiometer as far as I can tell.

Easy to replace by a set of fixed resistors in parallel/series to get the desired value, or even a single one if you're lucky.

Just make sure to measure it's resistance without anything connected to it.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:18 am quote
Tiltlock
I personally wouldn't remove the Tiltlock at all! In my oppinion,it just would be another roller with an extra Wheel. The Tiltlock is what makes (among other things ) the MP3 unique.But to each his own.
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:31 am quote
Re: Tiltlock
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
I personally wouldn't remove the Tiltlock at all! In my oppinion,it just would be another roller with an extra Wheel. The Tiltlock is what makes (among other things ) the MP3 unique.But to each his own.
To me, also personally, the tiltlock system is little more than some kind of electrically controlled centerstand. I could easily live without it.

I'm with jerryd on this one..
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:51 am quote
Re: Tiltlock
mono wrote:
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
I personally wouldn't remove the Tiltlock at all! In my oppinion,it just would be another roller with an extra Wheel. The Tiltlock is what makes (among other things ) the MP3 unique.But to each his own.
To me, also personally, the tiltlock system is little more than some kind of electrically controlled centerstand. I could easily live without it.

I'm with jerryd on this one..
Like I said Momo. To each his own! I just see the Plus in having the Tiltlock because the MP3 is not a Lite weight,and some of us Old Dudes can use the extra help!! If ya know what I mean !
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:43 am quote
jerryd wrote:
possible solutions.

measure sensor wires with dmv and build circuit to supply what ecu needs to see. if this sensor fails while driving you are walking home. the sensor is hella expensive at dealer. if they were cheap I would just buy a spare and keep on the bike.

the tuning software may be able to disable right at ecu.

if complete maps can be loaded from one ecu to the next I will load map from beo 500 and tune from there.

least desirable is aftermarket ecu. if that has to happen I am gonna turbocharge this bike to make it worth my time.
Good luck putting a turbo on engine that has a 10.5:1 compression ratio already.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:48 am quote
first engine I turbo compression was 6.9
that was in early 80s.

I was using 7.7 just ten years ago.

dont assume I wouldnt be changing the piston before I turbo my engine. you are an a bit of a know it all to me. how bout you stop reading my posts and start your own threads??
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:53 am quote
jerryd wrote:
first engine I turbo compression was 6.9
that was in early 80s.

I was using 7.7 just ten years ago.

dont assume I wouldnt be changing the piston before I turbo my engine. you are an a bit of a know it all to me. how bout you stop reading my posts and start your own threads??
So you're going to have a piston made? No one makes a low compression piston for the motor.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:13 am quote
no one is turbocharging them either. you really think you know more about turbcharging things than I do? think somewhere else please.

just snapped some pics of messy office









Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:46 am quote
jerryd wrote:
no one is turbocharging them either. you really think you know more about turbcharging things than I do? think somewhere else please.

just snapped some pics of messy office

No just a little, first job in Auto Industry was in high school working for one of the shop teachers after school at his shop, "Turbo Dynamics" in Springfield Va.

I mainly was a clean up boy, but learned a lot.
Number one thing learned, you don't Turbo something that is already at 10.5:1.
Step one is find low compression pistons, good luck with that for the Piaggio Master engine.
Not saying one can't be found that will work, but it is noting going to be found by vehicle make and model in a catalog, you will be in a warehouse measuring pistons after looking as specs in catalogs for hours or days.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:56 am quote
no body cares what you think.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5470
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:24 am quote
jerryd wrote:
no body cares what you think.
Sorta hard to prove a negative like that, but really easy to disprove.

I care. See?

Now, before we go a'jumping, that says nothing about what I think about what you think. Not that I expect you to care.


But for some reason, I DO expect you to comment.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:48 am quote
this thread is about eliminating tilt lock. I started this thread because I had plans to do it. it did it. and I since I cant find anyone anywhere else on the planet that did as well and wanted to talk about it I thought I would take about it..

I am pretty sure no one who is searching to eliminate their own tilt lock wants to read the BS posts they now have to read through because of Web-tech.

and your proud to want to know what he says next????

just wow.

Last edited by jerryd on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:09 am quote
Jerryd is thinking out of the box here, and seems to have the knowledge to make his ideas work.

People like to jump all over these kind of threads to post their opinions on why one wouldn't want to do such things, confusing their own preferences and knowledge with those of the topicstarter - often steering the discussion off topic and making it harder for interested people to extract useful information.

Can we keep this thread a bit clean and on topic please?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7507
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:02 am quote
jerryd wrote:
this thread is about eliminating tilt lock. I started this thread because I had plans to do it. it did it. and I since I cant find anyone anywhere else on the planet that did as well and wanted to talk about it I thought I would take about it..

I am pretty sure no one who is searching to eliminate their own tilt lock wants to read the BS posts they now have to read through because of Web-tech.

and your proud to want to know what he says next????

just wow.
Because you took away a huge reason to by the MP3.
Where I take and park mine I can't imagine NOT having the tilt lock.

Pulling off the road Anywhere ditch, grass hill, just hit the tilt lock and hand brake. Go eat berry's growing on the hill on the side of the road no one else can get to because there is not room to park and no place level for motorcycle to park. Hit tons of places like that on the MP3. MP3 is my berry picking go to
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:11 am quote
mono wrote:
Jerryd is thinking out of the box here, and seems to have the knowledge to make his ideas work.

People like to jump all over these kind of threads to post their opinions on why one wouldn't want to do such things, confusing their own preferences and knowledge with those of the topicstarter - often steering the discussion off topic and making it harder for interested people to extract useful information.

Can we keep this thread a bit clean and on topic please?
Chill mono. They´re just having a bit of fun . Of course I think I will stick with my Tiltlock if it´s all the say to you . You young Wipper-snappers can do what ya want . I donnot doubt anyones knowledge or abilities in this Forum and I truly think that everyone is entitled to his or her oppinion .
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:46 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
...
Because you took away a huge reason to by the MP3.
Where I take and park mine I can't imagine NOT having the tilt lock.

Pulling off the road Anywhere ditch, grass hill, just hit the tilt lock and hand brake. Go eat berry's growing on the hill on the side of the road no one else can get to because there is not room to park and no place level for motorcycle to park. Hit tons of places like that on the MP3. MP3 is my berry picking go to
That's exactly the problem here: the tiltlock was a huge reason FOR YOU to buy the MP3.

Jerryd and I couldn't care less about the tiltlock - and we both have valid reasons for that.

This is NOT about OPINIONS whether we should keep or remove the system, it's about HOW it could be done WHENEVER PLAUSIBLE.




(shouting only meant for clarity, I'm not angry )
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:37 pm quote
mono wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
...
Because you took away a huge reason to by the MP3.
Where I take and park mine I can't imagine NOT having the tilt lock.

Pulling off the road Anywhere ditch, grass hill, just hit the tilt lock and hand brake. Go eat berry's growing on the hill on the side of the road no one else can get to because there is not room to park and no place level for motorcycle to park. Hit tons of places like that on the MP3. MP3 is my berry picking go to
That's exactly the problem here: the tiltlock was a huge reason FOR YOU to buy the MP3.

Jerryd and I couldn't care less about the tiltlock - and we both have valid reasons for that.

This is NOT about OPINIONS whether we should keep or remove the system, it's about HOW it could be done WHENEVER PLAUSIBLE.




(shouting only meant for clarity, I'm not angry )
I understand,but it does sound very complicated,so good luck to both of you .
Member
2007 Piaggio MP3 250
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 25
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:10 pm quote
...and here I am just trying to figure out how to make the beeping noise quiet (it drives my dog into a barking frenzy every time).
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:59 am quote
I filled the speaker of my parking ECU with hot glue.

It's barely audible now - just perfect.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:01 am quote
mono wrote:
I filled the speaker of my parking ECU with hot glue.

It's barely audible now - just perfect.
That's a good idea you have there Mono. I think I'll try that one on my reverse gear (back up) beaper before it drives me crazy!
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