eliminating tilt lock system on mp3
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Member
2010 MP3 250, 2009 BV250
Joined: 26 Nov 2019
Posts: 10
Location: Michigan, USA
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:14 pm quote
I'm interested in hacking the tilt lock system, for reasons that I will explain later.

If I break the CAN connection between the tilt control unit and the ECU, do they do anything useful? Or do they just complain about errors?

My hope is that I can unlock the tilt and then break this connection, so the ECU will let the engine work normally regardless of what I do with the tilt lock. Is it possible?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 459
Location: tampa
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:11 am quote
the answer is already in the thread. when you break connection to tilt ecu bike will start but idle only.

I have the mechanical parts of tilt lock system off bike but tilt ecu is still needed as well as the sensors that the ecu locks at.
Member
2010 MP3 250, 2009 BV250
Joined: 26 Nov 2019
Posts: 10
Location: Michigan, USA
Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:47 pm quote
Got it. Thanks Jerryd for confirming what I thought I saw in your posts.

So here is the longer version, for anybody who is interested...
I'm doing a research project on the riding experience for tilting three wheel vehicles. One thing we are focusing on is the transition from tilt-locked low speed operation to unlocked leaning operation. We've got a couple vehicles to play with, including the MP3.

What we want to do is make it so we can manually lock and unlock the tilt. So we can play with riding it slowly in both modes, and experiment with when and how to switch modes, and how that feels.

Here is my current thought about how to accomplish this. I'd be very happy to hear your suggestions.

1.. Disconnect the tilt lock motor potentiometer, and connect a fixed resistor so the tilt controller always thinks the bike is tilt-unlocked and the ECU is happy and will let you ride.

2.. Disconnect the tilt motor power leads from the tilt controller.

3.. Install our own control unit and a handlebar switch. Our controller will drive the motor until the pot reaches 1v when the rider pushes the switch one way, and drive the motor until the pot reaches 4v when the rider pushes the switch the other way.

So what I hope we will have is:
- a bike where the Piaggio ECU is happy
- a separate working control system for the tilt lock.

What do you think? Any suggestions?
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 459
Location: tampa
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:59 pm quote
I will be following your progress. I think its very possible to achieve the goal you are after. I will say the titling ecu is simultaneously locking two systems. one hydro lock. and a second cable disc lock. only one style lock is really needed to drive around locked. so you have a few possible avenues to get the condition you are after. from the testing I did the ecu doesnt flag a code when the cable lock motor was disconnected. so you might be able to use diodes inline to the motor and turn that motor on without the tilting ecu knowing its happening.

and even easier is just manually operating the brake cable. no electronic trickery needed.
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 75
Location: singapore
Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:28 am quote
If the tilt lock is turned manual by the disc lock,the 2 locking shaft at the front suspensions will be removed.it will then allow the use of other aftermarket shocks as they do not comes will the mounting for the locking shafts.other brackets maybe needed to hold the front fenders.
Member
2010 MP3 250, 2009 BV250
Joined: 26 Nov 2019
Posts: 10
Location: Michigan, USA
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:38 pm quote
Right, I could do a mechanical system with something like a brake lever actuating the tilt brake cable. It would be interesting to see how this feels without the suspension locks.

But.. I have all the parts laying around my shop to do the electronic hack. It's easy for me. The mechanical hack is certainly feasible, but I'd have to find a suitable brake or clutch lever, and adapt the cable to it... All do-able. But in this case I'll take the easier-for-me route, which also locks the suspension, and which has more tune-ability or potential for trying strategies for automated systems.
Enthusiast
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Belgium
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:12 am quote
If the main intent is to circumvent the tilt lock system, wouldn't it have been a better and cheaper choice to have chosen a bike that doesn't have this system? Just sayin'.

Considering the lofty price tag of the MP3, I'd put that money towards a bigger bike vs. hacking and demoting a MP3.
Member
2010 MP3 250, 2009 BV250
Joined: 26 Nov 2019
Posts: 10
Location: Michigan, USA
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:41 am quote
My intent is *not* to defeat the tilt lock system. My intent is to make it manually controllable so I can lock and unlock at will. This is for a research project.

It may be Jerryd's intent to remove the tilt lock system, you could ask him about why he is making this choice, or he may have explained earlier in this thread.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4063
Location: Netherlands Olst
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:40 am quote
Good luck when driving with a locked front end
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 67
Location: Netherlands
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:18 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
Good luck when driving with a locked front end
ErikK wrote:
... One thing we are focusing on is the transition from tilt-locked low speed operation to unlocked leaning operation.... ...What we want to do is make it so we can manually lock and unlock the tilt. So we can play with riding it slowly in both modes, and experiment with when and how to switch modes, and how that feels.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7536
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:54 pm quote
ErikK wrote:
My intent is *not* to defeat the tilt lock system. My intent is to make it manually controllable so I can lock and unlock at will. This is for a research project.

It may be Jerryd's intent to remove the tilt lock system, you could ask him about why he is making this choice, or he may have explained earlier in this thread.
I would not do more than roll it out of my garage with the tilt lock on. You hit even a small rock or pot hole and you're going over.

Wayne B
Enthusiast
2013 MP3 300ie
Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 67
Location: Netherlands
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:23 pm quote
That's why ErikK should also consider trying the "disc lock" part without the hydraulic suspension locks.

It would make a major difference in handling and stability at low speeds if only the parallelogram, but not the suspension was locked.

Mind you, these guys seem to be looking for a reliable way of automating the locking/unlocking of all kinds of tilting three wheelers, not just tinkering about for fun.
Member
2010 MP3 250, 2009 BV250
Joined: 26 Nov 2019
Posts: 10
Location: Michigan, USA
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:47 pm quote
Well I got the hack to work. I can now manually control the tilt lock. As y'all predicted, I wouldn't want to ride it far or fast when locked.

Thanks for the idea of locking only the tilt and leaving the suspensions unlocked. I may try that too, we'll see.

Probably nobody else in the world wants to do this... But if you are interested let me know and I'll post some notes on what I did.

In addition to what I wrote before, I also had to bypass the tilt caliper switch and the hydraulic pressure switch before the beeping would stop.

Man is that tilt lock system over-engineered! They have fail-safes on top of fail-safes. I guess being the first of its kind they wanted to be super safe.

Speaking of which... those front parallelogram arms are massive! As is the steel steer tube. Again I think they over-engineered it since it was a new thing.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7536
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:06 am quote
ErikK wrote:
Well I got the hack to work. I can now manually control the tilt lock. As y'all predicted, I wouldn't want to ride it far or fast when locked.
You haven't owned it long have you?? Lock the front end and push is over a 2 or 3 inch deep pot hole. Make sure you are ready to keep the thing up or it may go over on you.
Not a good idea.
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