An Allstate. Is it worth it?
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Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS ĎDrake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 1874
Location: Space Coast Florida
Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:02 pm quote
Have a question in regard to a '64 Allstate Vespa nearby. The seller stated it belonged to his dad. Been siiting in a garage for over twenty years. Says he recently started it up. It ran, but rough. Clear title. Has the original passenger seat that was never instaled. Asking $2,100 with rear seat. $2,000 without.

The floor board on the right side is slightly bummed up. The rest looks fairly good.

I've restored many classic cars in my time and I'm very aware of the monetary pitfalls of taking on these projects. If I restored it, IMO, I'd never get the money back that I put into it. On the otherhand, I like preserving it's original character. Just make it a fun driver.

Back to my question, does this seem overpriced? I think it does by a few hundred. But, the guy won't negotiate. Your thoughts?

Bob

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Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3848
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:03 pm quote
I think it is overpriced. But in the last year I have seen prices rising on all Vespa/Allstates in my area (Charlotte, NC) to ridiculous levels, so who knows? In the past whenever I wanted to sell a scoot I was lucky to break even. For some bizarre reason, I have also seen Alstates asking for higher prices than for a comparable year of a Vespa. I guess the americana connection to Sears is driving the price up. Some actually are convinced that the Allstates are rarer than a Vespa, which is crazy as the opposite is true.
I can only guess that the guy that owns it has emotional attachment to it as it belonged to his father, but that has nothing to do with the asking price. Me? I would pass, There are better ones around for that price. Around here that would go for around $1200. As for comparison: 2 Allstates were on CL in the last few months, A 62 and a 63. Both asking prices were about $3000. No titles, not running, but all there. They both ended up going for $1000 to $1200. There is a fixer upper on there for $500 for the last 2 weeks, no takers so far.
So I have to ask, have you ever ridden one? I as because of the lack of the front shock and smaller engine, among other things, makes them less describable to own and ride. Now if you come across a Blue Badge Sprint, grab it, I missed out on one awhile back and I regret it. Sorry for the long story, It's raining hard all weekend and I'm going a little bonky. Best of luck!
Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS ĎDrake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 1874
Location: Space Coast Florida
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:19 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
I think it is overpriced...
I have to agree with you. No, I've never had the opportunity to ride an Allstate. I grew up with some very unforgiving Cushmans. So, I know what you're say'n.

Yes, the price seemed high to me. Also, when I talked to the owner my intuition told me he was Bs'n me somewhat. If it's been garaged, the Oakley decal seems out of character. The scooter is 50 miles from me and I wanted some input here before making an offer after a more through inspection.

This is another attempt for me to experience the NSM side of Vespa.

Thanks!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3848
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:54 pm quote
Well, I don't want to discourage you. They are fun rides, but the least you have to do is replace the old tired front spring with a Stoffi one. As it is, it is like a pogo stick front end - crazy to ride and a bit dangerous. The low tuned 125cc engine will do 45 mph on a good day,and take awhile to get there. This can be remedied somewhat with a larger piston, cylinder, carb and different exhaust from a later Vespa model. At this point you may be doing a full rebuild on the engine, That will get you to 50 and get there quicker. At this point you can ride it around town carefully without holding up too much traffic. Want better? You can install a p150 or larger engine. And then be aware that you moved up to a 10 to 12 HP engine on a scoot with 5 HP brakes. Just depends where you ride, when you ride and what you want to get out of it. For me, with a few upgrades, the Allstate is at home on 35 to 45 MPH roads with not a lot of traffic on weekends. If you want to get something like this, plan on dropping some coin into the engine, cables. rubber parts, etc. None of it is too hard to do and if you DIY, you will probably be looking around $500 to $750 for a general refresh. This will keep you from getting stuck on the side of the road because that 55 year old seal leaked and seized the engine.
Hooked
2005 et4
Joined: 23 May 2015
Posts: 414
Location: oshawa ontario canada
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:32 pm quote
I have a 1965. That is several hundred overpriced. If he wont budge, pass. They come around quite a bit.
Hooked
59" Allstate
Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 176
Location: TC Florida
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:55 pm quote
IMO That is way overpriced for what I see in the picture. I would pass and keep looking.
Member
P 200E P125X
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Posts: 48
Location: Hendersonville,NC USA
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 637
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:25 pm quote
That nineties restoration hasn't aged well.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1177
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:46 pm quote
Here is another example and this one looks fantastic for 2k https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/mcy/d/bremerton-1965-vespa-allstate-price/6819777263.html

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Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:19 pm quote
Re: An Allstate. Is it worth it?
That is extremely overpriced. If it has been sitting for 20 years you may very well need a complete engine rebuild. How old is the wiring? Is it original from 1964? If it is, that will need replacing, as will the stator plate. Probably all new cables will be needed. What about tires/tubes/brakes? You don't want to ride on ancient tires and brakes. How about the fuel line? Are the switches crumbling? Shocks?

You get the point? If you're paying someone else to do all that work you may end up spending more than what you paid for it! And you'll still just end up with an Allstate, not a GS or SS. A 125cc pogo-stick suspension Allstate.

In my opinion, with all that will definitely be needed, that's a $300-$500 scooter.

Now if was a RUNNING scooter that didn't need anything, then maybe $1500.
flordian wrote:
Have a question in regard to a '64 Allstate Vespa nearby. The seller stated it belonged to his dad. Been siiting in a garage for over twenty years. Says he recently started it up. It ran, but rough. Clear title. Has the original passenger seat that was never instaled. Asking $2,100 with rear seat. $2,000 without.

The floor board on the right side is slightly bummed up. The rest looks fairly good.

I've restored many classic cars in my time and I'm very aware of the monetary pitfalls of taking on these projects. If I restored it, IMO, I'd never get the money back that I put into it. On the otherhand, I like preserving it's original character. Just make it a fun driver.

Back to my question, does this seem overpriced? I think it does by a few hundred. But, the guy won't negotiate. Your thoughts?

Bob
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3848
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:28 pm quote
Yeah, I contacted that guy. He was under the impression that:
1) it was a original scoot because that is what he was told by a "collector"
2) it was rare and they only imported so many.
When I respetfully told him the year, that it was a three speed (he did not know!), 125cc (ditto) and at the least the tailight was wrong, he was a bit upset. Said he was going to lose too much money as it was. Pass for me.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 344
Location: Central california
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:42 pm quote
64 Allstate
Well I payed 2100 for my 64. Motor has had new seals installed before I bought it. Price was just ok, but California prices seem to be a bit more. I did install a stoffi spring.....makes riding it a lot easier.

82711364-D86E-4ED4-B813-76D6578DDDB3.jpeg

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7270
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:44 am quote
HARD PASS at 2K

somewhere around 1500 would be decent-ish depending and a straight buy would be 1K

figure you're gonna need a roller rebuild: tires, tubes, cables, grips & rubber bits so there's a quick and easy $300

then tackle the motor situation. maybe you just do a soft parts rebuild and tune up so there's another easy $200

throw in an extra $100 for incidentals and you're at a solid 2K for a bike that handles like a coal cart and you can ride to the doughnut shop on the weekend.

and that's before tackling the body and considering that you'd be doing all the work yourself.

-g
Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS ĎDrake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 1874
Location: Space Coast Florida
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:11 am quote
Thanks all for your informative posts. So, I told the guy yesterday it was overpriced and he went ballistic on me. Guess that says it all. Will keep looking to jump into the world of the NSMís. As one said, Ďif itís meant to be...í

Bob
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:35 pm quote
flordian wrote:
Thanks all for your informative posts. So, I told the guy yesterday it was overpriced and he went ballistic on me. Guess that says it all. Will keep looking to jump into the world of the NSMís. As one said, Ďif itís meant to be...í

Bob
If it is priced so fairly he should have no problem selling it to someone else. His anger tells you that he is having problems attracting buyers at that price.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7270
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:08 pm quote
Re: 64 Allstate
Sjanuary wrote:
Well I payed 2100 for my 64. Motor has had new seals installed before I bought it. Price was just ok, but California prices seem to be a bit more. I did install a stoffi spring.....makes riding it a lot easier.
to be fair, that looks a damn sight straighter and much more tidy than the other and the PO did soft parts on the motor. add in a set of white walls and that's going rate. so, in all honesty i think you did okay there.

-g
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Siam
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:07 pm quote
flordian wrote:
Thanks all for your informative posts. So, I told the guy yesterday it was overpriced and he went ballistic on me.
That's so funny. Why do people get so emotional? If someone told me that, I'd just say, "Hmm..., ok, no problem." It's like he's had his ancestral lineage shat upon.

Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:42 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
To me, that is just absurd. Buy yourself a repop Allstate emblem and slap it on a 125cc from the same time period. That's about the only difference, other than the missing front shock.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Siam
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:59 pm quote
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
To me, that is just absurd. Buy yourself a repop Allstate emblem and slap it on a 125cc from the same time period. That's about the only difference, other than the missing front shock.
Most of the serious collectors here are fanatical about originality, so they'd not consider that. Vietnam is the same. Many of the locals have immaculate all original gems for themselves, but send out the bodgy garbage to unsuspecting noobs.
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:12 am quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
To me, that is just absurd. Buy yourself a repop Allstate emblem and slap it on a 125cc from the same time period. That's about the only difference, other than the missing front shock.
Most of the serious collectors here are fanatical about originality, so they'd not consider that. Vietnam is the same. Many of the locals have immaculate all original gems for themselves, but send out the bodgy garbage to unsuspecting noobs.
So they are willing to pay thousands for, basically, a legshield emblem.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1074
Location: Siam
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:25 am quote
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
To me, that is just absurd. Buy yourself a repop Allstate emblem and slap it on a 125cc from the same time period. That's about the only difference, other than the missing front shock.
Most of the serious collectors here are fanatical about originality, so they'd not consider that. Vietnam is the same. Many of the locals have immaculate all original gems for themselves, but send out the bodgy garbage to unsuspecting noobs.
So they are willing to pay thousands for, basically, a legshield emblem.
Whatever dude. I mean some people are just really into a particular original bike. One man's trash is another man's treasure as they say. There's an original Allstate legshiled badge on ebay right now for US$200.00
Some people wouldn't pay US$200 for the whole original bike attached to it, others would pay US$5,000.
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:42 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
NotAutomatic wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Interestingly enough, Allstates in Thailand go for absurdly high prices because they are so extremely rare here.
To me, that is just absurd. Buy yourself a repop Allstate emblem and slap it on a 125cc from the same time period. That's about the only difference, other than the missing front shock.
Most of the serious collectors here are fanatical about originality, so they'd not consider that. Vietnam is the same. Many of the locals have immaculate all original gems for themselves, but send out the bodgy garbage to unsuspecting noobs.
So they are willing to pay thousands for, basically, a legshield emblem.
Whatever dude. I mean some people are just really into a particular original bike. One man's trash is another man's treasure as they say. There's an original Allstate legshiled badge on ebay right now for US$200.00
Some people wouldn't pay US$200 for the whole original bike attached to it, others would pay US$5,000.
It's not "whatever". It's not just an opinion. It's a statement of fact.

I also wouldn't pay $200 for just an emblem.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3848
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:11 pm quote
Re: 64 Allstate
Sjanuary wrote:
Well I payed 2100 for my 64. Motor has had new seals installed before I bought it. Price was just ok, but California prices seem to be a bit more. I did install a stoffi spring.....makes riding it a lot easier.
That's a clean looking scoot you got there. I gotta agree with G, you did alright.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 344
Location: Central california
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:18 am quote
price was ok....all original
Yes it is a solid scooter. lt is all original....the only reason i bought it. like i said the price was just ok. scott
Hooked
Allstate 1965
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 141
Location: Western NY
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:29 pm quote
I have a 65 Allstate and itís in ok shape. Iíve had 2 offers at 2k and Iím not even interested in selling. People just want it. So if Iím getting offers of 2k for an average at best Allstate, then I could probably get at least a few hundred more, easy. I have definitely seen an uptick in prices and I have no idea why. I got it for about $1800 and couldnít see paying more than that.
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