New 177 contender
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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4598
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:32 am quote
deleted, double post

Last edited by sdjohn on Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4598
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Did anyone in the United States figure out how to get these in cast iron? I wouldn't mind ordering 10, keeping a few and selling the rest. I created an account and emailed 10 Pollici about ordering a quantity of them. Might make it more worthwhile to them. If I can get 10 in the U.S. I figure I can sell the kits to people and get my money back.
Do they speak English at 10 Pollici and are they willing to ship to the USA? Was just looking at their site for a VMC ignition for the small frame...
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2209
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:10 am quote
How about this?? A "newish" VMC 177 kit for the 200 cases...

74815214_3081760501838955_2801935246847639552_n.jpg

77311582_3081760535172285_721182067638927360_n.jpg

74703506_3081760641838941_5966283935825526784_o.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:09 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Did anyone in the United States figure out how to get these in cast iron? I wouldn't mind ordering 10, keeping a few and selling the rest. I created an account and emailed 10 Pollici about ordering a quantity of them. Might make it more worthwhile to them. If I can get 10 in the U.S. I figure I can sell the kits to people and get my money back.
Do they speak English at 10 Pollici and are they willing to ship to the USA? Was just looking at their site for a VMC ignition for the small frame...
He (whoever it was, can't recall) does write in English but I think it helped to get an Italian friend to write to him. Gave me shipping price to Oz that was around 150 euros iirc... eg SIP would be maybe 40 or 50. But do contact him, he's very good to deal with. When a clutch was out of stock, he offered me a 15% more expensive one for the same price. Good guy.

Last edited by Ginch on Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:10 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
How about this?? A "newish" VMC 177 kit for the 200 cases...
Wow, that's weird. More info Chrys?
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1646
Location: UK (South East)
Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:10 am quote
Struggling to see the benefit of that 177 kit for a 200. Ok, better crank and inlet and longer conrod, but why not just use a 210/221/215/225 kit if you have 200 cases?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1532
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:44 am quote
I received a reply from http://www.avotecnica.com/ they recommend the aluminum due to shipping weight of cast iron to the US.

2 kit Stelvio alluminium, fusion head, 470 euros delivery included (NO VAT)
5 kit Stelvio alluminium, fusion head, 1070 euros delivery included (NO VAT)

$520.47 / 2 = $260.24 each US$

$1184.89 / 5 = $236.98 each US$

Shipping using a medium size USPS box is $15.00, even if I bought 5 to reduce shipping costs from a single unit, I would have to resell them for $252.00 to break even. That's a lot of work to save $40.00, if I bought one and paid full shipping.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:59 am quote
Re: New 177 contender
Jimmyrs250 wrote:
I have this kit in aluminum with long stroke 187cc. Over a year now runs perfectly
Hello, i have the same setup , can i know what is your jetting?
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2871
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:25 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
I received a reply from http://www.avotecnica.com/ they recommend the aluminum due to shipping weight of cast iron to the US.

2 kit Stelvio alluminium, fusion head, 470 euros delivery included (NO VAT)
5 kit Stelvio alluminium, fusion head, 1070 euros delivery included (NO VAT)

$520.47 / 2 = $260.24 each US$

$1184.89 / 5 = $236.98 each US$

Shipping using a medium size USPS box is $15.00, even if I bought 5 to reduce shipping costs from a single unit, I would have to resell them for $252.00 to break even. That's a lot of work to save $40.00, if I bought one and paid full shipping.
I tried to buy one iron kit from them over a year ago, paid for it. They never shipped it and refunded me after over a month of trying to figure out what was going on. They said local customs and postal restrictions made it unaffordable to ship to the USA. Was a bit frustrated they didn't just cancel and refund it right away instead of having to put quite a bit of effort into trying to get them to communicate.

At that time only the aluminum kit was available through sip, and the iron kit pricing was deep discounted only on their site which is why o tried to buy through them. Now sip sells both so there is no reason to purchase direct from manufacturer anymore especially given their difficulty shipping to usa.

I just bought an aluminum kit from sip for my p125 engine. Came in a week no problems!
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:42 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
[I just bought an aluminum kit from sip for my p125 engine. Came in a week no problems!
I Just got the SuperG kit, and i'm testing diferents jets. What's your actual jetting ?
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2871
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:54 am quote
It's sitting on the shelf. That project won't start for months or a year.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1201
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:59 pm quote
mendozaram wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
[I just bought an aluminum kit from sip for my p125 engine. Came in a week no problems!
I Just got the SuperG kit, and i'm testing diferents jets. What's your actual jetting ?
What does your porting look like? Is it matched? Is it half-assed? Did you just mount the cylinder to the case with no porting? What is the rest of your setup? That will get a better ballpark idea. Photo attached is the porting I did on my last VMC 177.

A697FC68-F37A-4160-97AF-17FFB2ED336E.jpeg

Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:22 am quote
GickSpeed wrote:
mendozaram wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
[I just bought an aluminum kit from sip for my p125 engine. Came in a week no problems!
I Just got the SuperG kit, and i'm testing diferents jets. What's your actual jetting ?
What does your porting look like? Is it matched? Is it half-assed? Did you just mount the cylinder to the case with no porting? What is the rest of your setup? That will get a better ballpark idea. Photo attached is the porting I did on my last VMC 177.
Yes, i had ported the case. My setup is

VMC 177 SuperG
60mm Stroke Mazzi Crank
24/24E with 2mm drilled Passage
Main Gear - Cluth DRT 23 - Stock 68 tooth
BGM Fast Flow
Scootopia SR150 Big Box (i have a Malossi Pipe waiting his turn to be mount after a get the jetting right)

Currently using Idle 55/160 , screw 2.75 turns out , Main Stack AC140/BE3/Mj120 and i feel a little bog between 1/4 to half throttle. I didn't WOT yet. Spark plug is Just black

IMG_20201220_103659.jpg



Last edited by mendozaram on Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1201
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:55 pm quote
mendozaram wrote:
GickSpeed wrote:
mendozaram wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
[I just bought an aluminum kit from sip for my p125 engine. Came in a week no problems!
I Just got the SuperG kit, and i'm testing diferents jets. What's your actual jetting ?
What does your porting look like? Is it matched? Is it half-assed? Did you just mount the cylinder to the case with no porting? What is the rest of your setup? That will get a better ballpark idea. Photo attached is the porting I did on my last VMC 177.
Yes, i had ported the case. My setup is

VMC 177 SuperG
60mm Stroke Mazzi Crank
24/24E with 2mm drilled Passage
Main Gear - Cluth DRT 23 - Stock 68 tooth
BGM Fast Flow
Scootopia SR150 Big Box (i have a Malossi Pipe waiting his turn to be mount after a get the jetting right)

Currently using Idle 55/160 , screw 2.75 turns out , Main Stack 140/BE3/120 and i feel a little bog between 1/4 to half throttle. I didn't WOT yet. Spark plug is Just black
I would think you are in the ballpark with your 140.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2179
Location: california
Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:03 pm quote
Quote:
Yes, i had ported the case. My setup is

VMC 177 SuperG
60mm Stroke Mazzi Crank
24/24E with 2mm drilled Passage
Main Gear - Cluth DRT 23 - Stock 68 tooth
BGM Fast Flow
Scootopia SR150 Big Box (i have a Malossi Pipe waiting his turn to be mount after a get the jetting right)

Currently using Idle 55/160 , screw 2.75 turns out , Main Stack 140/BE3/120 and i feel a little bog between 1/4 to half throttle. I didn't WOT yet. Spark plug is Just black
I would be concerned that the hole in the float bowl at 2mm may be restricting a 140 main jet. To test this - you can put in a much larger jet - like a 150 or larger - and make sure that you can feel a lot of change at wide open throttle. There should be a size of main jet that is just so rich it is gurgling and wont rev out. This means your main jet is controlling the richness - not the 2mm hole.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:50 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
I would be concerned that the hole in the float bowl at 2mm may be restricting a 140 main jet.
Hmmm. CM - What should the carb (any carb for that matter) be drilled out to? I've been drilling mine (20/20's and 24/24s) to 2.0mm. What you're saying is questioning why I didn't go bigger..
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:05 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
I would be concerned that the hole in the float bowl at 2mm may be restricting a 140 main jet. To test this - you can put in a much larger jet - like a 150 or larger - and make sure that you can feel a lot of change at wide open throttle. There should be a size of main jet that is just so rich it is gurgling and wont rev out. This means your main jet is controlling the richness - not the 2mm hole.
it's AC140 - BE3 - MJ120 .... I'd changed the Air Corrector to 160 today. It's feels better. Now Main stack is AC160-BE3-MJ120 , Idle 55/160 Screw 2 1/2 turns out. Sparkplug still Black. I have another idle jet 45/140 but i don't know if is too lean to use it because i'm on Break-In period
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: California
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:01 pm quote
Mendoza, can you post up a photo of your plug? Are you inspecting the plug after normal shut down or when at high RPM shut down?

The trend seems to be moving towards smaller air corrector to keep the WOT mixture as rich as possible I'm using a 120AC.

Next step is to find the sputter point with the main jet, find the largest main jet that causes sputter basically from 1/4 throttle then back down from there.

Once you have that somewhat good then fine tuning with atomiser and pilot jet.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:54 am quote
hibbert wrote:
Mendoza, can you post up a photo of your plug? Are you inspecting the plug after normal shut down or when at high RPM shut down?

The trend seems to be moving towards smaller air corrector to keep the WOT mixture as rich as possible I'm using a 120AC.

Next step is to find the sputter point with the main jet, find the largest main jet that causes sputter basically from 1/4 throttle then back down from there.

Once you have that somewhat good then fine tuning with atomiser and pilot jet.
Normal shutdown

IMG_20201228_085344.jpg

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: California
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:48 am quote
Hmm

Is that a long reach spark plug? Is long reach plug required? What is the heat rating? What is your timing?

Plug looks as you described. How many miles are on the plug?

What is the squish gap?

Need to know what size main jet floods out and will not run clean. On my Pinasco 190cc seems 132 main jet is that point it can not pull past the sputter so I know this is the ceiling. I am currently testing with a 120AC-BE4-128MJ.

I started with BE3 atomiser then BE5 then BE4 to richen up the mid range.

Will need some plug chops at higher RPM to see plug condition.
Hooked
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 115
Location: MA
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:04 am quote
Tis a puzzlement. That plug reads very rich but I don't think your jetting is rich at all for a 187. Might even be a bit lean. Only things I can think of are the spark plug might be too cold or you might be sucking some oil from the gearbox.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am quote
hibbert wrote:
Hmm

Is that a long reach spark plug? Is long reach plug required? What is the heat rating? What is your timing?

Plug looks as you described. How many miles are on the plug?

What is the squish gap?

Need to know what size main jet floods out and will not run clean. On my Pinasco 190cc seems 132 main jet is that point it can not pull past the sputter so I know this is the ceiling. I am currently testing with a 120AC-BE4-128MJ.

I started with BE3 atomiser then BE5 then BE4 to richen up the mid range.

Will need some plug chops at higher RPM to see plug condition.
VMC recommend B9ES, this one is B8ES, little hotter than B9. Timing is set @ 18°.

100 miles with this new Cylinder. Plug was used. I can put it a new one B8ES.

Temps here is around 26-30°C.

Squish is 1.5mm (VMC recommends 1.8mm)

Right now i'm with AC140-BE3-MJ120, and has a little bog trying WOT at 3rd. I didnt full WOT yet. Cylinder has only 80-100 Miles on it, maybe less than that. Today i change the idle jet from 55/160 to 45/140. I'll see the plug with a short ride on it

Last edited by mendozaram on Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:52 am quote
Kowalski wrote:
Tis a puzzlement. That plug reads very rich but I don't think your jetting is rich at all for a 187. Might even be a bit lean. Only things I can think of are the spark plug might be too cold or you might be sucking some oil from the gearbox.
Hi, sucking oil is discarted because everything was check when the case was splitted to Port.

I'm a little scared because i'm has seen people here with similar setups using mj125 or bigger.

This is the plug now with Idle Jet 45/140 , screw 3 turns out. My Exhaust is an Malossi Pipe

IMG_20201229_124406.jpg

IMG_20201229_124439.jpg

IMG_20201229_124555.jpg

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: California
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:54 am quote
Get a new plug in pronto so you can evaluate the new set up. 8 should be OK for now not sure on temp value until jetting is better. I don't see the crush washer are you using a CHT temp ring?

1.5mm seems good for squish.

Suggest richen up the main jet until you find the sputter, 120mj might be a bit weak looking at your porting and build spec. You need to know where that is, where is it?

Positive engine has no leaks? Port on fly side next to cylinder stud looks skinny.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:08 am quote
hibbert wrote:
Get a new plug in pronto so you can evaluate the new set up. 8 should be OK for now not sure on temp value until jetting is better. I don't see the crush washer are you using a CHT temp ring?

1.5mm seems good for squish.

Suggest richen up the main jet until you find the sputter, 120mj might be a bit weak looking at your porting and build spec. You need to know where that is, where is it?

Positive engine has no leaks? Port on fly side next to cylinder stud looks skinny.
Crush washer is on it, i recheck, But is too flat.. Ook ok. I have a new B8ES , i'll put on it.

I'd try mj125 and has sputters everywhere, so i went down to mj120, and has Just a small bog trying a short WOT at 3rd.

No leaks.

Yes, looks skinny But i fullfilled both sides with JB Weld
Member
Vespa T5 251, Lambretta GP200
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Leeds, England
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:51 pm quote
I'd be happy with your last pics of plug if "feel" and "sounds" are good too.
I stopped re-using plugs a few years ago on the advice of a tuning guru. They may be good for 20,000 miles but the crush washer is a use once only thing. The boxes mine come in even have a pictorial guide on the side, basically snug up and then half to three quarter turns. (NGK).
Of course I do use re-use them if the situation needs it with no worries but at 2 quid a plug....better to be safe.
Hooked
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 115
Location: MA
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:10 pm quote
RunsLikeSlug wrote:
I'd be happy with your last pics of plug if "feel" and "sounds" are good too.
I stopped re-using plugs a few years ago on the advice of a tuning guru. They may be good for 20,000 miles but the crush washer is a use once only thing. The boxes mine come in even have a pictorial guide on the side, basically snug up and then half to three quarter turns. (NGK).
Of course I do use re-use them if the situation needs it with no worries but at 2 quid a plug....better to be safe.
Agreed that color looks much better in second set of photos. You should still replace that plug though because it remains encrusted with soot from before.

If the scooter runs smoothly up to 1/3 throttle, then the 45/140 idle jet is pretty close. Might be a little lean if it takes 3 turns on the mixture screw to trim out, but that is not a big deal.

Conventional wisdom says your AC140/BE3/MJ120 main stack is too lean for a 187. It will be interesting to see how that ends up once you get the scooter run in enough to start bombing around at WOT.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2179
Location: california
Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:44 am quote
mendozaram - Hebert has some good advice there.
Keys:
1. Stick with one air corrector for time being. Jumping around can have big changes and you are in break in. Suggest 140 or 120 and just stick with it.
2. Hebert's suggestion on splutter: Keep making the MJ larger until the scooter wont rev up because it is too rich. Then start walking it down. This way you will be moving from too rich to a more lean, optimized jet, without running the risk of a very lean jet hurting your engine before you have discovered the right one.
3. Best read of plug color comes from running wide open throttle for 10 seconds before pushing the kill switch and coasting to a stop. Let the motor cool a little bit, and then pull the plug out and photograph. If you have a slightly inclined road - this is even better in my experience.

I believe you said you have about 100 miles on it.
Everyone here has a different opinion about how long to break in a new motor.
Ask 10 people - get 10 different answers.
Some would say you are safe to start going to wide open throttle.
Some would say you are not even close yet.

In my opinion - once you reach 7 heat cycles - where you have ridden and gotten it fully hot - and then cooled off - you are safe to run some wide open throttle tests to perform 3 above. Not sure if you are there yet.

Hope that's helpful.
Keep posting pics.
-CM
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:10 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
mendozaram - Hebert has some good advice there.
Keys:
1. Stick with one air corrector for time being. Jumping around can have big changes and you are in break in. Suggest 140 or 120 and just stick with it.
2. Hebert's suggestion on splutter: Keep making the MJ larger until the scooter wont rev up because it is too rich. Then start walking it down. This way you will be moving from too rich to a more lean, optimized jet, without running the risk of a very lean jet hurting your engine before you have discovered the right one.
3. Best read of plug color comes from running wide open throttle for 10 seconds before pushing the kill switch and coasting to a stop. Let the motor cool a little bit, and then pull the plug out and photograph. If you have a slightly inclined road - this is even better in my experience.

I believe you said you have about 100 miles on it.
Everyone here has a different opinion about how long to break in a new motor.
Ask 10 people - get 10 different answers.
Some would say you are safe to start going to wide open throttle.
Some would say you are not even close yet.

In my opinion - once you reach 7 heat cycles - where you have ridden and gotten it fully hot - and then cooled off - you are safe to run some wide open throttle tests to perform 3 above. Not sure if you are there yet.

Hope that's helpful.
Keep posting pics.
-CM
Ok. Already put a Fresh new B8ES on it. I was asking FMP thru his YouTube channel too and he recommend something about ac160/beX/mj140. I had try one MJ140 and the Bike Just doesnt rev anything.

I Will start from scratch today... 55/160 and AC140/BE3 and some biggers jet than mj120. 140 means 1.4mm right ? 120 it's 1.2mm , and so. I'm working drilling old jets, in My country is hard to find jets.

I have more than 7 heat cycles, lets try a WOT today. I'll keep you informed
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:50 am quote
New B8ES. This is 10km city ride , some short WOTs. Idle 55/160 2 1/2 turns out. AC140-BE3-MJ130. I feel splutter trying WOT at any gear and new plug is starting to get Black color

Im going to try an AC120 that i found today. I'm really thinking about downgrade the carb to a 20-20E.

IMG_20201230_104206.jpg

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: California
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:55 pm quote
Mendozaram your latest plug photo looks clearer.

It's going to take trial and error before success. I would stick with the 24mm carb and keep notes.

Try to get a pack of main jets 118-138 this way they should be sequential in sizing. The main jet is the starting point on tuning the si carb. I am not willing to test my precision with a drill bit to this tolerance.

Get the 120 air corrector.

Get a BE4 and BE5.

You will probably require some pilot jets too 55-160 might be too rich it is what a P200 is using. This is an area I'm not good at predicting. I am currently testing a 48-160 pilot that I drilled the 140 air venturi to 160/5. Drilling the air part is simple and not as delicate as a fuel passage. Waiting to test a 45-160 next.

What is your air filter setup?
Hooked
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 115
Location: MA
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:19 pm quote
mendozaram wrote:
New B8ES. This is 10km city ride , some short WOTs. Idle 55/160 2 1/2 turns out. AC140-BE3-MJ130. I feel splutter trying WOT at any gear and new plug is starting to get Black color

Im going to try an AC120 that i found today. I'm really thinking about downgrade the carb to a 20-20E.
I agree with Hibbert, you don't need to change carbs. A 24-24 should be fine with a 187.

How does the scooter feel at partial throttle? If the only issue is splutter at WOT, I would leave everything else alone and just start walking down the main jet.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:35 pm quote
hibbert wrote:
Mendozaram your latest plug photo looks clearer.

It's going to take trial and error before success. I would stick with the 24mm carb and keep notes.

Try to get a pack of main jets 118-138 this way they should be sequential in sizing. The main jet is the starting point on tuning the si carb. I am not willing to test my precision with a drill bit to this tolerance.

Get the 120 air corrector.

Get a BE4 and BE5.

You will probably require some pilot jets too 55-160 might be too rich it is what a P200 is using. This is an area I'm not good at predicting. I am currently testing a 48-160 pilot that I drilled the 140 air venturi to 160/5. Drilling the air part is simple and not as delicate as a fuel passage. Waiting to test a 45-160 next.

What is your air filter setup?
Thanks for your replies

- I need patiente.... hehehe... I can Buy a pack of MJ , But that will take at least a month to get it in My country. D:

- Already got in My hands the AC120, i'll test tomorrow with it

- i have a E3 atomizer un hands, looks pretty close to BE5. Maybe a little Richer

- I have the IJ 45-140 , i'll test tomorrow paired with AC120 and MJ120

- Air Filter is a LML Deblued and heart holes drilled

Last edited by mendozaram on Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:48 pm quote
Kowalski wrote:
I agree with Hibbert, you don't need to change carbs. A 24-24 should be fine with a 187.

How does the scooter feel at partial throttle? If the only issue is splutter at WOT, I would leave everything else alone and just start walking down the main jet.
Feels i little rich maybe until 1/3 throttle But rideable, beyond that, splutters and feel pretty Bad. I'll try to record a sound of it

Tomorrow i'll try the AC120 combo. But i have to Buy a set of MJ and wait a month to get it. Until that, i'm working almost blind , with drilled MJ D:
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:05 am quote
Short WOT at 3rd. WOT shutdown. Jetting is 45/140 3 turns out, AC140- E3 - 120mj.

I was testing AC120 but doesnt rev good at all with BE3 and MJ116.

IMG_20210102_125646.jpg

IMG_20210102_125710.jpg

Hooked
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 115
Location: MA
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:26 pm quote
mendozaram wrote:
Short WOT at 3rd. WOT shutdown. Jetting is 45/140 3 turns out, AC140- E3 - 120mj.

I was testing AC120 but doesnt rev good at all with BE3 and MJ116.
Apart from the plug, how does the scooter feel now? Any bogging under acceleration or splutter at WOT?

To my eye, that plug reads lean, which is what I would expect from an MJ120 on a 187. Have you tried an AC140/E3/MJ125 combo yet? That gives you an air tube that puts you near the midddle of the rich-lean spectrum, a mixer tube that does the same, and a main jet that is toward the bottom end of what I expect you would need for a 187.

Not surprised at your results with the AC120, but the AC120 itself is not the culprit. It is the BE3/MJ116 combo, which, even with an AC120, is almost certainly too lean for a 187.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:28 am quote
Hello everyone. I'm waiting a set of Main jet but that will take a month. Right now i'm on IJ 55/160 2.25 turns out , Main Stack AC140 - E3 - MJ (Something between 120 & 130) remember i had to drill some MJ to test because is hard to find jets here in My country. I'd recorded a vídeo , let me read your comments about it.

I'm new with this "Art of Tunning" and i'm still confused with things like how is a sputter at wot or similar

https://youtu.be/fukhONP7z_U

I attached some plug pics after that ride. Normal shutdown.

IMG_20210109_151502.jpg

IMG_20210109_151535.jpg

IMG_20210109_151545.jpg



Last edited by mendozaram on Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 115
Location: MA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:02 pm quote
mendozaram wrote:
Hello everyone. I'm waiting a set of Main jet but that will take a month. Right now i'm on IJ 55/160 2.25 turns out , Main Stack AC140 - E3 - MJ (Something between 120 & 130) remember i had to drill some MJ to test because is hard to find jets here in My country. I'd recorded a vídeo , let me read your comments about it.

I'm new with this tune art and i'm still confused with things like how is a sputter at wot or similar

https://youtu.be/fukhONP7z_U

I attached some plug pics after that ride. Normal shutdown.
Plug looks perfect. The video sounds good too, except you can hear splutter at WOT, so your main stack is rich.

Plan A would be to try a smaller main jet. In your case, though, you don't really know what you have now and it's hard to get more.

Plan B would be to try your AC160. That probably will get rid of the splutter, but needs to be monitored carefully to ensure it isn't so lean the motor overheats and seizes.

Plan C would be to try your BE3 mixer. That will make things a little leaner at WOT, but mostly it will make things leaner in the midrange, which may not be what you want.

I would order several main jets between 120 and 130 and then, carefully, go with Plan B until they are delivered.
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: California
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:57 pm quote
Nice video Mendozaram scoot sounds pretty good. Sounds like you are getting some sputter towards the end at the higher RPM.

I'm learning like you please take my comments with caution. Not sure where the E3 emulsion tube lies in the line-up with B series maybe BE5?

Running pretty crisp 0-1/2 throttle might try to en-richen with 120 Air corrector and possible B4 emulsion tube.

Plug is looking good. Be careful extended WOT runs in 4th gear can reveal a different story.
Member
2005 Star Dlx - VMC 187ccm
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Venezuela
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:36 pm quote
Hi Hibbert and Kowalsky , thanks for your comments. I had try , because it was spluttering , to give more Air, i drop an AC160-BE3 and the same mainjet from the last vídeo. And i felt it was worst.

Drop a bigger jet which i measured with a Medical needle , and there was bogging everywhere

So, in this vídeo. The setup is the same Drilled mainjet from the last vídeo But AC160-BE3

https://youtu.be/39BtjyCBqnc
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