same old problem
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion
Author Message
Hooked
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 240
Location: Uk
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:52 am quote
hi fellow odd balls
yet again another mp3 with system locking issues, details
250
2007
12500 miles
problem
suspension will not lock.
symptoms : igntion on,press button to activate locking system,yellow light goes from flashing to solid state,internal buzzer/horn ( not the main loud horn ) beeps for 1 second then off for 2 then repeats and never stops till lever double tapped right.

nothing else happens at all, nothing, no motor whirl, no clicking, no buzzing , nada zip ziltch.
things iv already checked

fuses both sets
relays checked and moved around
reversed bleed brake fluid
checked both small actuating pistons behind each wheel for seized parts
checked sensors for damage or leaking fluid
checked wheel sensors
please dont say battery issues as new battery and checked its volts 12.7
when i check sensor inputs i never get more than about 5 volts maybe an issue there.

is there a way to put 12 volts into the system to make sure the main motor is working ?
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3969
Location: Netherlands Zwolle
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:27 am quote
air in the system
Hooked
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 240
Location: Uk
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:22 am quote
from what I could gather,thats what I thought but I have reverse bleed the system and got a few small bubbles out of the offside but nothing major. its a mystery to me as to why I don't get anything at all happen other than the yellow light going solid and the red tilt lock symbol coming on when I press the button to the left.

can I put a 12 volt wire onto a sensor wire somewhere just to check system is still working and make it engage?
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:19 am quote
I too am suffering form suspension lock issues. I have a continuous beep (not horn) and I can't unlock the suspension.

Reading all the posts I will be looking through the following.



Low battery voltage
Low hydraulic fluid
Speed Sensors disconnected
Position potentiometer faulty
Full travel microswitch faulty
Parking Control unit not functioning
Water in tilt lock housing
Hydraulic Sensor faulty
Handlebar Switch faulty
Instrument panel disconnected

Have I missed any potential issues?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 5972
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:27 am quote
buddyspudface wrote:
from what I could gather,thats what I thought but I have reverse bleed the system and got a few small bubbles out of the offside but nothing major. its a mystery to me as to why I don't get anything at all happen other than the yellow light going solid and the red tilt lock symbol coming on when I press the button to the left.

can I put a 12 volt wire onto a sensor wire somewhere just to check system is still working and make it engage?
How did you bleed it? You want to push the fluid up from the shock solenoids.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 240
Location: Uk
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:27 am quote
yep, shoved it right up there with my little syringe
im trying to see if i can put a direct 12 volt cable to anywhere to check motor is still working... but not sure which wire to attack first.
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:50 am quote
For my continuous beep problem one of the solutions seems to be replacing the parking controller.

I have bought a second hand one on ebay for 50 quid, perhaps it might speed the repair we'll see.

Just wondering if anybody knows if it is a straight swap out, or is there any further work required to swap one unit for another.

And apart from just working, is there anyway to test a unit off the bike?

Thoughts appreciated as always....
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:09 am quote
desq wrote:
For my continuous beep problem one of the solutions seems to be replacing the parking controller.

I have bought a second hand one on ebay for 50 quid, perhaps it might speed the repair we'll see.

Just wondering if anybody knows if it is a straight swap out, or is there any further work required to swap one unit for another.

And apart from just working, is there anyway to test a unit off the bike?

Thoughts appreciated as always....
I have a few of these in my parts.
The 640439 is the latest to my knowledge to 2016 Models of MP3/400, /500, and /250. I do recall an older part number that was on some of the 2007/2008 models.

They break pins easily on a collision, and its not visible on the plug.
The easiest solution is to swap and see if your problem goes away.
They are expensive, and a real pain in the ass to replace to get to them so its always good to keep a spare which as you know can be found on ebay. Most of the sellers have no idea what it is, and some sell them at a good price, and others sell them for more then what you can buy a new one for.

In the US, the best seller of this part is scooterpartsco.com for a New Part.
My next choice would be easyparts.nl


Keith,
Marietta, GA
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:58 am quote
Thanks Keith

That was going to be my next investigation through the manual, but sounds like you know how to get to the parking control unit?

Sounds like it ain't going to be quick!..
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:15 am quote
Hmmm, just looked through the workshop manual.

Can see references to the parking control unit in the circuit diagrams and in the exploded parts (brakes) section. But can't see any reference to where it actually is located on the bike.

Its part no. 40 in on this page.

https://www.parts-piaggio.com/piaggio-scooters/125-PIAGGIO-SCOOTER/MP3/2006/MP3/Electrical-system/Voltage-Regulators--Electronic-Control-Units-ecu--HT-Coil/810/52/131019102/1606
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:28 am quote
Apologies, just done some more sleuthing and found Keith had made this comment in a previous thread..

"The Tilt lock has its on PCC (Park Control Computer, near the Parking Brake under all the ABS Plastic.)"

I also have another question before I make an incorrect assumption. The continuous beep tilt lock warning happens even when the bike is running and showing around 13v on the two battery terminals.

Does this mean that I can rule out a bad battery?

Thx
Hooked
Fuoco 500ie - 2007, Benelli Adiva 150 - 2003
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 388
Location: North West London,UK
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:21 pm quote
Took the leg shield off, which was time consuming but relatively straight forward.
The parking control unit is directly behind the handbrake lever, and you can easily take the plug out, by pulling back the purple locking lever on the side.

When I pulled off the old unit I could hear a rattle inside which gave me hope that perhaps I was onto something, but when I started the bike up after putting the new unit it, it unfortunately has made no difference.

I still get a continuous beep when I try and unlock the tilt lock. If I turn off the ignition and turn it on again, there are no beeps or warning lights.

Next step is to go through the tilt lock checks in the workshop manual starting in section Suspension 16 and see if that points to anything.

Ho hum...think that this is going to take a long time to solve!
Member
MP3 500 Sport HPE 2018
Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire,UK
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:39 am quote
Hi Buddyspudface. I have no experience of the older MP3s, but my 2016 tilt lock has its own brake fluid reservoir and it runs out of oil about once a month. No leak has ever been found, just ran out of oil. Topped it up and everything was ok again. (this I have got down to 17 minutes from start to finish)
The 2016 has a small reservoir on the right hand side (left if you look from the front) just for the tilt lock.
Is it the same on the older machines? Just a thought.
Emlyn
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:30 am quote
Emlyn wrote:
Hi Buddyspudface. I have no experience of the older MP3s, but my 2016 tilt lock has its own brake fluid reservoir and it runs out of oil about once a month. No leak has ever been found, just ran out of oil. Topped it up and everything was ok again. (this I have got down to 17 minutes from start to finish)
The 2016 has a small reservoir on the right hand side (left if you look from the front) just for the tilt lock.
Is it the same on the older machines? Just a thought.
Emlyn
Emlyn, you have a leak somewhere... This is far from being normal.
I had a MP3/250 that would do a reverse fluid draw back into the reservoir that would cause my MP3 to lean to one side every morning. (Before I used the Center Stand like I do know.) I thought their was a leak, and once the Cylinder was replaced it worked normal.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 am quote
desq wrote:
Thanks Keith

That was going to be my next investigation through the manual, but sounds like you know how to get to the parking control unit?

Sounds like it ain't going to be quick!..
It's a Pain in the Ass, and many body parts have to be removed.
You do a few of these, you get good at taking the bike apart.
One of the things I do is get some small plastic zip lock bags, and as I remove screws I put them in the bag, and then tape that bag to the part I removed.
Use your Cell Phone Camera to take pictures of certain areas as a reminder for re-assembly. Take your time, and have plenty of room. In a short time you will have body parts all over the place and the bike will be down to its tube frame. I have the older MP3/250 and MP3/400's down to a few hours. I have not taken my 2016 MP3/500 totally apart yet, so still need to learn how to do that one. It looks to be a little easier from what I have taken apart so far for doing mods.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:42 am quote
desq wrote:
Took the leg shield off, which was time consuming but relatively straight forward.
The parking control unit is directly behind the handbrake lever, and you can easily take the plug out, by pulling back the purple locking lever on the side.

When I pulled off the old unit I could hear a rattle inside which gave me hope that perhaps I was onto something, but when I started the bike up after putting the new unit it, it unfortunately has made no difference.

I still get a continuous beep when I try and unlock the tilt lock. If I turn off the ignition and turn it on again, there are no beeps or warning lights.

Next step is to go through the tilt lock checks in the workshop manual starting in section Suspension 16 and see if that points to anything.

Ho hum...think that this is going to take a long time to solve!
That's what's so "Exciting" about this Bike.
(Aren't you glad your not paying someone an Hourly Rate in a Shop to do this Repair? Your Service Bill will add up quickly...)

You conceivably change one thing, and you have to go to another.
I have learned to keep "Known good spare parts".
Try to swap to that part, if the conditions of the Beep / Horn does not change, put the old part back on... Try something else...
I just checked my spares of the PCC, and there should be "No Rattle" going on with that part. My suggestion would be to leave the one you just installed in place.

Good Luck...
Keith,
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:53 am quote
desq wrote:
Apologies, just done some more sleuthing and found Keith had made this comment in a previous thread..

"The Tilt lock has its on PCC (Park Control Computer, near the Parking Brake under all the ABS Plastic.)"

I also have another question before I make an incorrect assumption. The continuous beep tilt lock warning happens even when the bike is running and showing around 13v on the two battery terminals.

Does this mean that I can rule out a bad battery?

Thx
I hate to make to many suggestions to cause you to spend money.
I would try a "Known Good Battery", not the original one installed in your MP3, that you "Assume is Good". A spare battery is another part I keep handy for diagnosing problems, or I will take the one out of my other MP3, to see if the symptom of the problem changed.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Member
MP3 500 Sport HPE 2018
Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire,UK
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:50 am quote
Hi klaborde. I know that I have a problem, it is just that I cannot find out where it is going. This is not strictly true, sometimes there is a small patch of oil under the front end, (a couple of drops from a 10ml syringe.) Not every time I put the scoot in the garage. It just goes out of the reservoir until the low oil is triggered and the machine leans over a bit. At that point I can move the scoot from side to side with a bit of force.
This problem at the moment is not enough to worry me.
Thank you anyway
Emlyn
Member
Mp3
Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Okc
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:07 am quote
buddyspudface wrote:
.....can I put a 12 volt wire onto a sensor wire somewhere just to check system is still working and make it engage?
Yes you can do this. I tried it yesterday.
You just remove the connector going to the big black DC motor in the back of the tilt lock assy. If I remember right you need to reverse the 12vdc To get it to lock and then red to red to get it to unlock.
I'm still trying to figure out the tilt lock but I think the motor turns and pushes down on the hydraulic valve in the front of the tilt lock. This engages the brake pads that go to the parallelogram to lock the tilt.
Member
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 41
Location: philippines
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:33 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
Emlyn wrote:
Hi Buddyspudface. I have no experience of the older MP3s, but my 2016 tilt lock has its own brake fluid reservoir and it runs out of oil about once a month. No leak has ever been found, just ran out of oil. Topped it up and everything was ok again. (this I have got down to 17 minutes from start to finish)
The 2016 has a small reservoir on the right hand side (left if you look from the front) just for the tilt lock.
Is it the same on the older machines? Just a thought.
Emlyn
Emlyn, you have a leak somewhere... This is far from being normal.
I had a MP3/250 that would do a reverse fluid draw back into the reservoir that would cause my MP3 to lean to one side every morning. (Before I used the Center Stand like I do know.) I thought their was a leak, and once the Cylinder was replaced it worked normal.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
sir klaborde... what Cylinder were you referring to? do u have a picture? Im not sure if thats the same cylinder that im thinking of. thank you.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4113
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:43 pm quote
This is the tilt-lock cylinder. Looks like a silver tube.

Keith
Marietta, GA
Member
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 41
Location: philippines
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:14 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
This is the tilt-lock cylinder. Looks like a silver tube.

Keith
Marietta, GA
I dont know if my computer is acting up i cant see the image you sent mate.
Scooting the Ozarks is a scooter rally held in Eureka Springs, Arkansas offering riders scenic twisty rides, poker run, and more.   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion
[ Time: 0.4432s ][ Queries: 23 (0.0982s) ][ Debug on ]