Malossi V-One Sport / VR-One MHR cases
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6500
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:00 pm quote
There's been a little bit of talk about these new, as yet unreleased cases but no dedicated thread. So here it is.
The V-One is a rotary valve case, and the VR-One is a reed case.

What is new about them?
The mounting pad for the cylinder is broader and not undercut like the original.
It's already matched to the 210 Malossi kits.
The cases are held together with M8 screws and not M7 bolts.
Below the crank there is an extra screw holding the halves together.
The flywheel side bearing uses the chunkier T5 bearing.
The clutch side bearing retaining casting is much bigger and stronger than the original.
There's a 'pad' just in front of the selector box mount, I'm guessing that it will hit the ground before the selector box when leaning on right-handers.

Prices have been released. In the UK VE will be distributing, rotary valve: £699.82 and reed induction: £792.86 (includes 30mm manifold but not sure if reed itself is supplied).
At Malossistore.de the price will be 790/895 euro.
As a comparison the current 200 cases made by Malossi but an exact replica of the Piaggio ones are 1210 euros at SIP!
Pinasco cases are 545/587 euros.

The reed opening is much bigger than LML or Pinasco. The reed supplied, according to SLUK, is a "much larger reed block that is equivalent in size to a 6-petal block"
The really important thing about the location of the reed opening however is the positioning. To get good unrestricted flow from the reed to the cylinder generally involves a lot of work, and a flowed or bell crank.
With this MHR case the opening has been brought forward towards the cylinder. This means that even if you fit a full circle crank, it won't be in the way of flow. So you can get the benefits of the heavier crank with better balance and better flow to the cylinder as well. 2 stroke motorcycles mostly all use a similar arrangement now, rather than cylinder-mounted reeds.

A downside is the 'Malossi' cast into the swingarm where you would normally stamp your number. Whether this makes it to the production version who knows?

https://scooterlab.uk/new-malossi-px-crankcases-released-news/?fbclid=IwAR3JqKICWxgiHeh-y4taZGyz7J1Iw_MU30Musn5-cujNwKz43yg5wP69r3I

Malossi V-1 1.jpg

Malossi V-1 2.jpg

Malossi V-1 reed block.jpg
The carb connection on the reed version has been kept nice and low.

Malossi V-1 grinding block.jpg
Selector box saver?

Malossi V-1 reed flow.jpg
This still from the video shows the space that will be available around the crank



Last edited by Ginch on Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6500
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:01 pm quote
At EICMA -
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Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:05 pm quote
They're not on the distributor site yet.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6500
Location: Victoria, Australia
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6500
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:04 pm quote
Here is a little further info from the SIP blog (translated from German) -

MOTOR HOUSING MALOSSI V-ONE / VR-ONE FOR VESPA PX 200
In addition to the standard motor housing for the Vespa PX 200, MALOSSI has two reinforced versions in its range. The MALOSSI V-One with rotary valve inlet and the MALOSSI VR-One with membrane inlet . As a material, the Italians use AL Si 7MG aluminum with a perfect silicon / magnesium content. In the development of the housing, the material has played a major role. Because only then was it possible to combine all the requirements of a modern motor housing such as corrosion protection, machining flexibility, accuracy of fit and strength.


Constructively, the Italians have made a statement. In addition to the stiffening of typical weak points of the standard housing (secondary shaft, 5-fold bolted crankshaft housing, swing arm, shock absorber mount), was also deliberately planned for more material at required points such as engine sealing surfaces, transfer flywheel side and cylinder base. An innovation is the screw connection. If previous original motors were screwed together with M7 screws and nuts, the two MALOSSI One motor housings with M8 Allen screws are assembled into already integrated threads of the large motor half. The result is a better and stronger connection between the two halves. Malossi does without the big engine seal. Only temperature-resistant sealing compound is used!




Both motors have a recess for the electric starter. MALOSSI saw optimization requirements in the layout of intake and crankshaft housing. Both were streamlined optimized. The transfers are already adapted to the MALOSSI 210 Sport or 210 MHR. Pre-assembled silent rubbers on the engine and shock absorber mount are included.


Of course, both versions have a few differences:

Motor housing MALOSSI V-One ( 5717245)
Motor housing with rotary valve inlet, can be used as standard replacement, without intake manifold, reinforced, M8 hexagonal motor bolts, original bearing dimensions, bearings not included, cylinder studs as well as bolts for brake preassembled

Motor housing MALOSSI VR-One ( 5717230)
Motor housing with diaphragm inlet, for sophisticated tuners, incl. Diaphragm intake manifold 360 ° rotatable for PHBH 30-34mm carburetor, incl. 6 flaps diaphragm, reinforced, M8 allen engine bolts, incl. Bearings (flywheel side 25x52x15 / clutch side 25x62x12), cylinder studs and bolts for brake preassembled



Conclusion:

The V-One is perfectly usable as a standard replacement. The 210cc driver is looking forward to the already adapted overflows and the new connection system of the engine halves which makes it possible to split the engine easy when installed.

Demanding tuners access the VR-One. One has all the advantages of the V-One housing. The reinforcements are perfect for powerful engines. By using a roller roller instead of needle roller bearing on the flywheel side, a well-known problem is solved. The scope of delivery already includes the two crankshaft bearings as well as the diaphragm intake manifold including diaphragm. If you take into account the large engine seal that is no longer needed, it can not be beaten!

Motor housing V-One
Art. No. 57172450
Price: 849,00 EUR incl. VAT.

Motor housing VR-One
Art. No. 57172300
Price: 959,00 EUR incl. VAT.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a herd of easy shifty rats
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:28 am quote
another contender
Seems like more & more choices these days, but this one will cost you dearly. 55HP+ claimed, made in Italy for SIP. More here: https://scooterlab.uk/sip-bfa-push-the-boundaries-with-55-bhp-vespa-news/


306 cc anybody?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:51 am quote
If I win the lottery tomorrow (need almost 8k €, with a proper carb and a nice ignition), it's going on my blue P
Addicted
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:48 am quote
Think I'll stick to the 30HP MHR build and maybe buy an old ZZR1100 for half the cost of the BFA stuff. Best of both worlds.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:29 pm quote
I thought they were supposed to come down in price when they went from CNC'd cases to cast?

It looks completely awesome. I do wonder however how the cooling will (or won't) keep up with 50hp of heat being produced? They don't seem to be making a special fan.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I thought they were supposed to come down in price when they went from CNC'd cases to cast?
They did. CNC engine was 12k+ €...
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1132

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:39 pm quote
...but can any transmission hold up to 50HP? The cases look strong enough for when a tooth breaks of of the christmas tree and gets lodged between the gears, it won't crack them..and i said "when", not "if"...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:02 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
...but can any transmission hold up to 50HP? The cases look strong enough for when a tooth breaks of of the christmas tree and gets lodged between the gears, it won't crack them..and i said "when", not "if"...
That's one bit they don't seem to make. SIP are suggesting you buy DRT F1 items (you have your wallet out already, why not? ) so perhaps that's enough? Although I do share your skepticism... scooterists have been the unwitting crash test dummies for a lot of new gear.

Apart from all that SIP's description of the clutch sounds pretty impressive - like replacing plates while the basket is still in the motor.
Hooked
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:04 pm quote
I’m not sure how much fun a 50+ hp Vespa would be to own as it’s hard enough keeping the front wheel on the ground with a 25hp tune
But I wouldn’t say no to having a ride on a Vespa with that engine installed
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:35 pm quote
Ha ha. Yes somehow I doubt you would be exploring the limits! Unless it's of your brakes. Or fuel tank!
Addicted
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:03 pm quote
I see a set of the Malossi cases in my future. No need just yet but all the little upgraded bits will niggle away until I buy some.

Malossi did miss a trick with the new casings though. Notice the BFA has a 3 port exhaust. Well, thats where the extra 15bhp comes from. The Malossi will make around 40bhp max with the one exhaust port.
Malossi could have added extra threads for two barrel studs, which don't get in the way of the 40 bhp MHR but could be used for a new 55bhp MHR+. And now were back to the gear teeth issue.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1183
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:54 pm quote
Beefy gearbox parts are here or coming soon. Crimaz has already a beefed up primary "tree" and KR Solutions from Germany, is preparing 2 beefed up axles, one with a special wheel hub (although the Made in Taiwan stamp doesn't inspire confidence)...

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:04 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
...Malossi did miss a trick with the new casings though...
That's interesting isn't it? They've upgraded and kept the continuity, where they might have taken the opportunity and designed it for a new cylinder (like the Pinasco 250 case). It's possible they already have a suitable cylinder somewhere in their own range.
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Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:56 pm quote
Never seen a kit for the Pinasco 250 but if it doesn't have 3 exhaust ports it doessn't make the Christmas list.

I really would have liked to see the Malossi cases have alternative positions for the bottom two studs. They could have then sold us a 55bhp MHR kit with 3 exhaust ports as an option. Could have run the same cranks and everything else. And could still have been used for the 40bhp cylinder.

The BFA one looks great but who's paying that kind of money and everytime something breaks it's more custom money again.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6500
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:38 am quote
Yes you only have to look at the Cyclone 5 speed gearbox for Lambrettas... something like 4 or 5 versions to date over 3 or 4 years.
You wouldn't want to be looking for a job in R & D when the public can do it just as well and pay for the privilege!

Hard to pick what Pinasco will do about a cylinder for the 250 case - they have those nice split exhaust 177s that don't seemed to be pushed at all. But it would definitely be a good base for motorcycle cylinder conversions - if the stroke is long enough.
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Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:14 am quote
pinasco 251 cc
and the new clutch and crank

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PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:01 am quote
Can just see it. The Pinasco 250 does have 3 exhaust ports. Could be fast. And even if it isn't it can be ported faster. Who makes the piston?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:37 pm quote
Thanks for putting that up Wilhelm! I had seen that picture but didn't realise it was the 250 cylinder. Jack do you think this is the exhaust side port? I wasn't sure, but guess it's far too high for a transfer.

Pinasco 250 exhaust port maybe.jpg

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PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:22 pm quote
Yes, we have the clarification thanks to Wilhelm. The Pinasco 250 could now be a better option than the new Malossi with the new MHR. With 3 exhaust ports it is tunable (if not already) to 55bhp. If it runs on the usual Pinasco 60mm crank etc. (ie doesn't need $5,000 dollars of special parts) then the only detail is the piston.

Pinasco (and Polini) traditionally make c**p pistons . If this 250 has an Asso, vertex, Wiseco or other respected non-chocolate reliable piston, then they might really have something here.
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Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:47 pm quote
The thing is Jack Pinasco and Polini buy their pistons in, certainly the ones that I've seen fail come from Asso. So I won't be taking a chance with Asso anytime soon or until they're proven over the course of hard testing on the road.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:45 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
With 3 exhaust ports it is tunable (if not already) to 55bhp.
And back to my question - can you keep a 55hp cylinder cool with the available cooling?
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Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 am quote
The head looks typical of Pinasco, with the Piaggio style fins. I like the BGM and Parmakit style with radial fins, but how much better is the cooling capacity in reality?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:37 pm quote
The radial fins at least don't block any air... I often wonder how the air gets to the small side fins on the traditional design.
The space inside near the plug on the BGM I imagine would sort of act as a sort of plenum of higher pressure where the air can go in all directions from there. Whether that's what actually happens I'm not sure.
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 am quote
Vespa air cooling is better than it is given credit for. I think it will be fine. Tricky but fine. All overheating issues can be controlled by jetting and timing. The issue is that when the temperature is controlled the high rpm power may not be as expected. Compression and squish can be adjusted to help get the power higher. Hopefully Pinasco already did all this and provide detailed set up instructions for the guys who buy it....what you reckon?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:37 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
...and provide detailed set up instructions...


Good one Jack!!!
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