Cannot move MP3 250
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Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:09 am quote
Hi, Just got a 2007 MP3 250. Need two people to get if off the truck when it shipped to me. It cannot easily roll on the ground. Feels like the gear is shifted on, or brake is on. The hand brake is down. I parked in center stand and I could not spin real wheel. Is this normal or something wrong? Thanks.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10202
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:13 am quote
- deleted - (post in error)

Last edited by Dooglas on Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:37 am; edited 2 times in total
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:05 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
The manual (parking) brake locks the front wheels, not the back.
WRONG! The parking brake locks the back wheel, not the front wheels. It is quite common for the cable to be seized, especially if it's been in a humid or wet environment or has been left unattended for ages.

It's easy enough to check if it's seized and to release the brake at the rear if so.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:23 pm quote
Hi, Jimc: How to check the bake cable is locked, and how to release it? The hand brake indicator is not on and it is in off position. I am able to ride the scooter, but hard to start / speed up in the beginning. After 2 miles of riding, I smelled something kind of burning. I checked the rear brake fluid, it is dirty and kind of low. It is not smooth to pull the rear brake lever (left). Does the low / dirty brake fluid causes the problem? Thanks.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:30 pm quote
Look at the parking brake mechanism while the parking brake lever is being moved up and down - does anything move at the brake itself? If it's stuck on (a very common problem in freezing weather) then it'll be hard to move the wheel - and if you do drive it - yes it will smell as the thin brake pads are cooked!

You can release the parking brake at the back end merely by unwinding the adjuster. IIRC, some needle-nose pliers and an 11mm (or was it 12mm?) wrench are useful here.

You can use a mirror to eyeball if the pads are tightly gripping the disc.

It sounds like once the back wheel has been freed up that you'll need to replace the parking brake cable and pads and also do a brake fluid change for the main rear brakes.

It could still be a belt problem - but it's very unlikely that a belt that had seized the clutch would still allow the bike to be driven in the first place.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:46 am quote
Jim: Thank you for the details. I moved the hand parking lever up and down. I could see the end of 'parking brake mechanism' closed / opened. I used mirror to check the pads, and it looked like the pads are still tighten to the disc. How to release the pad from disc? I do not have right size of wrenches to adjust it. I will get one today and try it. Thanks.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3970
Location: Netherlands Zwolle
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:12 am quote
spanner 6mm and a 12mm un do the 12mm nut and turn the axle with the 6mm
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:32 am quote
New to the scooter, so need a lot of help. Thank you all in advance. I am able to remove / adjust the parking cable with 12 mm wench. However, the pads are still tight to the disc. I still cannot spin the wheel when the scooter is on center stand. How to release the pads from the disc? I tried to lose 12 mm nuts, but it was not help.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:21 pm quote
Scooter Jr. wrote:
New to the scooter, so need a lot of help. Thank you all in advance. I am able to remove / adjust the parking cable with 12 mm wench. However, the pads are still tight to the disc. I still cannot spin the wheel when the scooter is on center stand. How to release the pads from the disc? I tried to lose 12 mm nuts, but it was not help.
You have misunderstood. The adjustment of the mechanical caliper is not to do with the cable adjustment. You have to wind out the piston using the 6mm spanner (or needle-nosed pliers if the adjuster is somewhat rounded) to release the pads. You have to release the 12mm inner lock-nut first.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:54 pm quote
Jim: Thank you so much. Here where I am stuck now. Should I lose (turn counter clockwise) the nut on the black cover? Or tie (clockwise) this nut to wind out the piston?

Handbrake.jpg

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:59 pm quote
The nut is merely a lock-nut. Hold the threaded bit with a 6mm spanner (or pliers!) and loosen the nut. Then wind the threaded bit out - it's a fine adjustment to have the pads far enough away that the wheel can turn with the parking brake off, but near enough that they'll hold the disc tight when the brake is on. When you've got it 'just so', tighten the locknut again.

If you ride more than a small distance with the handbrake on, the thin pads will wear right away - they're only intended for static use.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:18 pm quote
Jim: I can use my fingers to screw the threaded (stud?) in and out for couple turns. Is this right? When I screw the threaded out, I can see the underlying black plastic cover is extending. What do you mean "Hold the threaded bit with a 6mm spanner (or pliers!) and loosen the nut."? I use the wrench to 'counter clockwise' the nut and use the plier hold on top of stud (kind of clockwise turn) at same time. I do not feel the nut is going out. Should I use more power to turn? Or should I reverse my turns (wrench clockwise, and plier counter clockwise)? Sorry for the stupid questions. Thanks.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 240
Location: Uk
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:26 am quote
this.

just to add,thats a very clean looking mp3. looks like its never seen any rain.

handbrake_19469[1].jpg

Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:58 am quote
It has less then 900 km on it. Seller from Texas, and parked in garage. I still cannot release the wheel. I held 12 mm, and turned 6 mm (stud) then the button part of 12 mm nuts pop out. The wheel is still locked. I am afraid of the whole stud will lose if I keep in turning. Should I hold 12 mm, and turn #1 (red direction) or #2 (yellow direction)? Thanks.

P3.PNG

Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3970
Location: Netherlands Zwolle
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:08 am quote
first put the cable holder and cable back then do the adjustment
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:46 am quote
I removed the black cover then I can see the whole stud. Maksor is right, when I put cable holder back, then I have no need to hold 12 mm wench. I can turn 6 mm stud to adjust. Question is : which direction to adjust to release the locked pad? I turned #2 yellow direction, and it did not work. I turned #1 direction (red), and nothing happened. I am afraid of turning too much to cause more problem. Thanks.

P5.PNG

P4.jpg

Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3970
Location: Netherlands Zwolle
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:24 am quote
if the rear wheel stil don't move

it a wheel or clutch bearing or something else
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:42 am quote
I'd be guessing that those first ~900 km were put on in 2007 and the scooter sat for over ten years. The rear tire is original. And there is corrosion on the fasteners that mine doesn't have after ~42,000 miles in all weather but frozen. So I have to wonder if it was really garage kept, for those entire ten years.

Given how far you are into the parking brake, I'd pull that caliper off the wheel and see if that frees it. Even just removing the caliper fixing bolts and see if it is free on the disc will answer some question I have (is it still the parking brake that is frozen despite adjustment being all the way out).
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:44 am quote
When the scooter first arrived few days ago. It could not move easily and I thought this is NORMAL for MP3. I ride on the road for about 6 km. I smelled something was burning. I could not move it forward or backward after I back to home. I found this forum and a lot thanks to Jim. He pointed out this parking brake issue. The back (left) brake lever is not moving smoothly. The brake fluid is dirty and low. Will the dirty brake fluid lock the wheel? I will flush the brake fluids after unlock the real wheel. Will try to adjust the brake again, and hope it will work this time. Will post the result. Thanks.
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:03 am quote
Scooter Jr. wrote:
When the scooter first arrived few days ago. It could not move easily and I thought this is NORMAL for MP3. I ride on the road for about 6 km. I smelled something was burning. I could not move it forward or backward after I back to home. I found this forum and a lot thanks to Jim. He pointed out this parking brake issue. The back (left) brake lever is not moving smoothly. The brake fluid is dirty and low. Will the dirty brake fluid lock the wheel? I will flush the brake fluids after unlock the real wheel. Will try to adjust the brake again, and hope it will work this time. Will post the result. Thanks.
Dirty fluid by itself won't lock the rear brakes, but they could still be stuck due to rusted caliper pins.

If you undo the caliper mounting bolts on the parking brake you will see if the wheel is now free to turn (just a little). If the wheel then turns then the parking brake is what is stuck - to the brake disc. If, with the parking brake caliper bolts out the wheel still doesn't turn, it points to the rear brake (or other bearing as Maksor suggests).

Beyond all this, I'd be wondering why the brake fluid is low and dirty if it was just sitting in a garage.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:38 am quote
Madison: I believe you are right about both of the scooter and wheel lock issue.
Lesson learns, do not buy motorcycle online. Anyway, I took out 2 nuts of caliper. I shake caliper but did not remove it from the disc (I am afraid I cannot put it back later. ) The wheel is still locked. What do you suggest? Should I check the rear brake and flush brake fluid or anything else? Thanks.

P6.jpg

Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:29 am quote
If it was me at this point I'd remove the rear wheel and open up the transmission. After having a new belt and rollers, rear tire, hub oil, and brake fluid on hand.

Just depends on how deep you want to dive into this.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:25 am quote
Madison: Thank you for the suggestion. It is fun to go deeper, however, it may be a challenge for a new rider. No tools, no experiences, and rely on online helps. One more question. The closest Piaggio's dealer is about 20 miles away. It is not far, but my scooter is not running smoothly. Do you think it is good idea to have local motorcycle repair shop to fix it? MP3 is kind of different from regular bike. Thanks.
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:45 am quote
Scooter Jr. wrote:
Madison: Thank you for the suggestion. It is fun to go deeper, however, it may be a challenge for a new rider. No tools, no experiences, and rely on online helps. One more question. The closest Piaggio's dealer is about 20 miles away. It is not far, but my scooter is not running smoothly. Do you think it is good idea to have local motorcycle repair shop to fix it? MP3 is kind of different from regular bike. Thanks.
The stuff that is not working is the same stuff that's on most any scooter.
The dealer will do fine with it, even if they aren't accustomed to the MP3 tilt-lock.
See if they can come pick it up.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 13 May 2017
Posts: 232
Location: Land of Oz
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:02 pm quote
I think your pistons are frozen up. You will have to remove the caliper and rebuild it. It also looks like you ruined the rotor by riding it with the brakes locked. Rebuilding a caliper is not hard. If you are not mechanically inclined then take it to a dealer and have them do it. I think what Madison suggests (taking it to a dealer) may be your best option.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 5995
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:39 am quote
Scooter Jr. wrote:
Madison: Thank you for the suggestion. It is fun to go deeper, however, it may be a challenge for a new rider. No tools, no experiences, and rely on online helps. One more question. The closest Piaggio's dealer is about 20 miles away. It is not far, but my scooter is not running smoothly. Do you think it is good idea to have local motorcycle repair shop to fix it? MP3 is kind of different from regular bike. Thanks.
I am in Ashburn, and would be willing to stop by and take a look. I am off Wed, Thur and Fri this week.
PM me if you want me to stop by and take a look.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:52 am quote
Hi, I took the muffler off today and bleed the rear brake fluid. Yeah! My first accomplishment. I am trying to remove both calipers from the rear disc. I think #1 and #2 nuts are mounting of rear brake caliper. #3 and #4 are mounting of parking brake caliper. Am I right about both? These two sets of nuts are different. Thanks.

p7.PNG

Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:05 pm quote
I removed those 2 nuts, and I am able to wiggle the rear wheel. The first time I can wiggle the wheel by hand. The caliper is still on the disc and I am not able to take it off. I believe this is the problem where stuck the wheel. How to release the rear brake (or how to release the piston)? Will it helps if I remove those 2 yellow allen nuts? Thanks.

p8.PNG

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 134
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:36 pm quote
Looks like your brake piston is frozen. Good job diagnosing it!

At this point you can do very little harm to it since it needs to be rebuilt. So, just wedge a crowbar between the pads and pry between the brake pads to open the piston until you can slide the caliper off the disk. Then either buy a new/used one or take that one to a rebuilder. Probably cheapest to get a good used one from ebay. It's possible that prying it open broke it free and it will work OK for a little while, but it really needs new seals and a hone to be reliable.
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:57 pm quote
Squeazel wrote:
Looks like your brake piston is frozen. Good job diagnosing it!

At this point you can do very little harm to it since it needs to be rebuilt. So, just wedge a crowbar between the pads and pry between the brake pads to open the piston until you can slide the caliper off the disk. Then either buy a new/used one or take that one to a rebuilder. Probably cheapest to get a good used one from ebay. It's possible that prying it open broke it free and it will work OK for a little while, but it really needs new seals and a hone to be reliable.
Be careful to avoid gouging the disc if you do this.
EBC brake pads are very good.
perfectbrakes.com I think.
Member
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Location: Herndon, VA
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:31 pm quote
Need help to confirm 2 things. #1. Am I removed the right nuts? #2. I slide/push caliper into back, but the back side of caliper touches the tire / wheel (the material circle part). I cannot push it out any more. Any suggestions? Thanks.

p9.PNG

p10.PNG

Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:51 pm quote
Pretty sure you need to remove the rear wheel.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 3970
Location: Netherlands Zwolle
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:05 am quote
not on a 250 only a 400 or 500 you need to remove rearwheel to get to the calipers
Enthusiast
Piaggio MP3 250, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 93
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:15 am quote
You just need to draw the brake pads as far from each other as possible. Then the caliper would be removable.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 13 May 2017
Posts: 232
Location: Land of Oz
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:00 pm quote
Squeazel wrote:
Looks like your brake piston is frozen.
I already told him this.
Madison Sully wrote:
Be careful to avoid gouging the disc if you do this.
No worries there. He already fried the rotor while attempting to ride the scooter with the brake pads locked up. I already told him this as well.
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4771
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:55 pm quote
FrogmanDave wrote:
Squeazel wrote:
Looks like your brake piston is frozen.
I already told him this.
Madison Sully wrote:
Be careful to avoid gouging the disc if you do this.
No worries there. He already fried the rotor while attempting to ride the scooter with the brake pads locked up. I already told him this as well.
How exactly does one determine if a brake rotor is 'fried' by way of looking at a picture? You don't smell stainless steel. I've ridden with my parking brake applied, smelled the pads, oops, release the brake and go on. Did it on my Explorer once too, and totally cooked the PADS but the rotors were fine.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 44
Location: NNJ
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:00 pm quote
If you need to get it to a dealer on a trailer try calling the dealer. My dealer knows a local guy that will pick up and deliver bikes for very reasonable cost and they use him all the time.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 13 May 2017
Posts: 232
Location: Land of Oz
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:04 am quote
Madison Sully wrote:
How exactly does one determine if a brake rotor is 'fried' by way of looking at a picture?
It just looks very scored to me. Plus he said in an earlier post he rode it 6 km's with the brakes locked up. It is just an educated guess on my part that the rotor is fried. Of course I could be wrong. Plus I figured the caliper would not come off of the rotor because it had dug into the metal and caused a groove around the outside.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4114
Location: Marietta, GA
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:54 am quote
DAAAaaammmm.... and I will throw in a OMG !
From the looks of the Disc, the Brakes are Locked up.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4114
Location: Marietta, GA
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:56 am quote
Scooter Jr. wrote:
Need help to confirm 2 things. #1. Am I removed the right nuts? #2. I slide/push caliper into back, but the back side of caliper touches the tire / wheel (the material circle part). I cannot push it out any more. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Sledge...
Your Screwed anyway...
Plenty parts need to be changed.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
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