What's new in electric scooters and motorcycles
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Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:54 am quote
As new electric 2-wheelers pop up faster than mushrooms after rain, they'll deserve an own thread.

As a starter: news from Germany. Designed in Germany, made in Germany...pricey as heck, but no does not look like a cheepo in any way.

http://sol-motors.com

image.jpeg

Ossessionato
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:27 am quote
Is it just me or does it look like a penlight on wheels?
Addicted
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:00 pm quote
Looks like a penlight on wheels to me

fried okra
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:22 pm quote
1/3 of the weight, almost 7 times max. torque compared to a GTS300 - would love to get my hands on that penlight

3 driving modes (really, I'm not making this up): Eco, sport, wheelie
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:38 pm quote
Bultaco
...many remember the classic 2-stroke competition bikes.

Bultaco has been back already for awhile. This time with modern "mopeds" i.e. kind of electrically assisted bicycles. But their models have had more emphasis on the e-motor than many others. Pedals still being a key feature in this class, as the users wish to combain exersice and electric fun. Expensive they are...but I've seen a few around.

https://www.bultaco.com/en/motorcycles/albero-4-5/

Now they've taken a "a step back to the future" , launching a concept in the EICMA. E-Street looks pretty much ready to be manufactured, so would be a surprise if they'd leave it here.

Designed in Madrid, factory near Barcelona...



image.jpeg

Ossessionato
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:52 pm quote
fried okra wrote:
Looks like a penlight on wheels to me

fried okra
I’m of the opinion it looks like a penlight on wheels.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:41 pm quote
Didn't P.T. Barnum coin a phrase about PREORDERING things
Molto Verboso
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Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:59 am quote
breaknwind wrote:
Didn't P.T. Barnum coin a phrase about PREORDERING things
We can blame the business guidebooks. You know, in the old days it was enough to ask customers after the purchase, are they satisfied or not. Then act accordingly.

Then we sifted to the world, were companies actively tried to find out what customer would need/want, before making the stuff.

Now the latest trend is that you should actually make customers buy the stuff before even making the final decision of production. The idea being, that if nobody buys any, you can pull the plug early enough and not waste money. Waste the company's money, that is.

Many forms in this, from growd sourcing to preorders....but yeah, that's the stuff teached at business schools today and it's spreading like heck also outside the traditional users, say real estate business.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:18 am quote
breaknwind wrote:
Didn't P.T. Barnum coin a phrase about PREORDERING things
And Elio taught people why NOT to pre order.
Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:05 am quote
Veitis
How about this? From GB with love...

http://www.veitis.com

Got to love the idea of "eV-twin".... Does not look too comfy on the vid though (see the web pages).

image.jpeg

Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:18 am quote
Oh yeah, one general comment: I don't know if you'd paid attention to this, but there's one interesting thing in electric scoots/motorcycles. They don't need clutch & gears in the traditional way.

So in effect, they'll scooterize the whole scene!
Ossessionato
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:18 am quote
Better but I still have to give it a meh. Looks uncomfortable as you stated and the 70 mph top end while not lame seems that they should have worked to get 80 mph out of it. 70 is a dangerous top end for the highway on something that looks like a motorcycle. On something that looks like a scooter (esp a smallie) people will (usually) give you room and understand you are probably going about as fast as you can.

At the moment the Ural is probably my favourite electric bike though still not in production. I think it had moved beyond just being a concept.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:34 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
At the moment the Ural is probably my favourite electric bike though still not in production. I think it had moved beyond just being a concept.
Well, IMZ actually had one built and it worked, so it is definitely more than a "concept" (electrical components by Zero). I think the problem for the moment is how to build and sell them at a marketable price point.
Ossessionato
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:08 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
At the moment the Ural is probably my favourite electric bike though still not in production. I think it had moved beyond just being a concept.
Well, IMZ actually had one built and it worked, so it is definitely more than a "concept" (electrical components by Zero). I think the problem for the moment is how to build and sell them at a marketable price point.
Hope so. It's a good looking bike and using the sidecar for extra battery just makes good sense. I'd be tempted if they can get the price right for the market to support it.
eeee-bip
Kymco X-iting 400 The Event Horizon
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:45 am quote
Shock
No gloves.

No eye protection.

Correction, when she rides out she has no gloves. When she's riding she has gloves.

On the return to her castle she has no gloves.

Just sayin.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:46 pm quote
When someone puts a Zero into a BV, I'm sold
Ossessionato
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:04 pm quote
Much like my students' music recommendations, so far all the designs on this page simply make me feel old, too old for anything new, with little desire to see what the world looks like -- or sounds like -- when I'm even older.

Give me nostalgia or give me...Viagra? Metamucil?

Sigh.

Last edited by tdrake on Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:12 pm quote
nuuk Europe

65mph!!
Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:28 pm quote
tdrake wrote:
Much like my students' music recommendations, so far all the designs on this page simply make me feel old, too old for anything new, with little desire to see what the world looks like -- or sounds like -- when I'm even older.

Give me nostalgia or give me...Viagra? Metamucil?

Sigh.
Steady...just take a deep breath....lean on this and off we go again....

image.jpeg

Ossessionato
2006 GT200
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 pm quote
RRider wrote:
tdrake wrote:
Much like my students' music recommendations, so far all the designs on this page simply make me feel old, too old for anything new, with little desire to see what the world looks like -- or sounds like -- when I'm even older.

Give me nostalgia or give me...Viagra? Metamucil?

Sigh.
Steady...just take a deep breath....lean on this and off we go again....


Now we're talkin!
Ossessionato
GTV
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:58 pm quote
I tripped across this electric motorcycle on Pinterst as part of a future MV post I want to launch soon. I can't read any of it but I mostly like the electric MC except the weird front end and wheel. It looks so disjoint to the rest of the bike.

If anyone can help with a translation, that would be helpful. Part of the website advertises their presence at EICMA 2018.

http://motodenik.cz/clanek/768-biiista-elektricka-bestie.html

The electric bike below (2nd photo) has a similar design feel and I like the overall design better than the Czech electric motorcycle.

Are electric bicycles now merging with electric MC/Scooters, much the same way scooters are largely merging with petroleum-powered motorcycle designs? I alway tell people that my Vespa is really a modern motorcycle with a 250cc engine in a vintage body with automatic transmission and visually differentiated from a MC because of the step-through design and running boards (vs foot pegs).

Best
Miguel

Czech electric bike.jpg

Electric bike.jpg

Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 pm quote
The original "snail look design" comes from the Austrian Johammer.
This bike has been discussed in MV earlier too, the design has been around for awhile.

If you'll browse towards the price list, you'll see why they are not that common...

But as said earlier, I like their effort to think out of the good old box.

http://www.johammer.com/en/electric-motorcycle/

image.png

eeee-bip
Kymco X-iting 400 The Event Horizon
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 pm quote
Bosh
I think that it retails at $23,000.

It's brave.

I like it.

Bill x
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:17 am quote
The Zero looks interesting and tempting.

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ca/

zero-fxs-studio-profile_930f0691.jpg

eeee-bip
Kymco X-iting 400 The Event Horizon
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:51 am quote
Numbers
I think the problem with the Vietis is that it's trying to look like something else.

If I'm going to buy an electric bike I want it to look like an electric bike because I'm making a statement.

To dress it up as something else kinda feels a bit of a dupe ?

Am I missing something ?

Bill x
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:47 am quote
Re: Numbers
Bill Dog wrote:
I think the problem with the Vietis is that it's trying to look like something else.

If I'm going to buy an electric bike I want it to look like an electric bike because I'm making a statement.

To dress it up as something else kinda feels a bit of a dupe ?

Am I missing something ?

Bill x
I don't want to like it, but I think they've done a good job with the design - all the essentials of a standard vintage bike with a minimalist aesthetic. As the other examples demonstrate, electrifying PTWs opens up a whole lot of design possibilities. They just need to get the range and charging issues improved.

The internal combustion engine is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:19 am quote
Re: Numbers
Bill Dog wrote:
I think the problem with the Vietis is that it's trying to look like something else.

If I'm going to buy an electric bike I want it to look like an electric bike because I'm making a statement.

To dress it up as something else kinda feels a bit of a dupe ?

Am I missing something ?

Bill x


Agreed. I think you'd get tired of those fake cylinders within the first week/month/year. If it's battery storage, seems pretty high up.
Air cooled V4? Wow, looks like at least 1600cc I mean, why go there?
eeee-bip
Kymco X-iting 400 The Event Horizon
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:39 pm quote
Peanuts
I think it's brave but it's misguided.

It's like making a Quorn sausage. It looks like a meat sausage therefore I'm fooled into believing that it's going to taste like one.

I don't agree with the internal combustion engine prediction.

It's going to be with us for the next 20 years in one form or the other using various kinds of fuels until we've actually run out of it or it becomes uneconomic to drill, refine and distribute it.

Bill x
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Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:57 pm quote
Re: Peanuts
Bill Dog wrote:
I think it's brave but it's misguided.

It's like making a Quorn sausage. It looks like a meat sausage therefore I'm fooled into believing that it's going to taste like one.

I don't agree with the internal combustion engine prediction.

It's going to be with us for the next 20 years in one form or the other using various kinds of fuels until we've actually run out of it or it becomes uneconomic to drill, refine and distribute it.

Bill x
20 years? Not so long considering its dominance for a century.

I repeat my prediction: The internal combustion engine is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Ossessionato
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:26 am quote
Re: Peanuts
mpfrank wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
I think it's brave but it's misguided.

It's like making a Quorn sausage. It looks like a meat sausage therefore I'm fooled into believing that it's going to taste like one.

I don't agree with the internal combustion engine prediction.

It's going to be with us for the next 20 years in one form or the other using various kinds of fuels until we've actually run out of it or it becomes uneconomic to drill, refine and distribute it.

Bill x
20 years? Not so long considering its dominance for a century.

I repeat my prediction: The internal combustion engine is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
I think it is probably done but it will take a while. The technology I'm sure will improve and they will figure out the range issue. There is a LOT of money in the world related to the the internal combustion engine and oil. Those involved will not roll over easily. A lot of infrastructure also needs to change including things like condo parking. Very few have electricity at the spot let alone 240. Even new developments are only roughing in the conduit and new owners have the option of paying for it. Most spots are still not electric vehicle ready.
eeee-bip
Kymco X-iting 400 The Event Horizon
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:57 am quote
Future
A few years back I met a guy who searches and drills for oil.

Once the well is found it's capped and left for the future.

I asked him how many years of oil there's left and he said till around 2060.

There's tonnes of it left, it's just going to be the cost of getting it out that's going to eventually be prohibitive.

So is the combustion engine dead ?

Not for a long time yet.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:15 am quote
Miguel raised an interesting question about e-bikes (electrically assisted bicycles) and electric scoots/motorcycles.

I believe e-bikes today have a bit different users. They are mostly folks who like cycling as a form of exercise. With a small eletric motor, they can make longer trips and also better use the bike for commuting and such purposes.

On the other hand, there may be more "room" for e-bikes and small electric scoots in the future. Many, many cities around the world are limiting use of vehicles with fossile fuel. My colleague just returned from Shanghai and said that he could actually see the sky there! This is the result of rapid electrification of vehicles.

Perhaps there will be more room in the cities for this kind of beautiful oddities, like the Avionics V1 from Poland!

http://www.avionics.bike/index.php/story/

image.png
A beauty. I'm a bit worried of the wooden seat though...

Hooked
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:23 am quote
In the USA . . .

CSC Motorcycles is selling the City Slicker . . made by Zongshen.

Sym/Lance . . "We are gauging interest please let us know what you think! No details or prices just yet, just testing the market." . . Facebook.



Last edited by tortoise on Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:12 am quote
Internal combustion is dead? Well, a bit premature, from my perspective... and I bought my first electric scooter in the 90s. Well, "scooter" may be a bit of a stretch: it was a 100 pound foldable conveyance that I could put in an underneath compartment in the motorhome and use around RV parks.

Mid-60s, and I expect to see IE around through my lifetime. Seems that all the manufacturers are dipping their collective toe in the electric "pond"... but, I do not see the general public embracing it whole-heartedly. Yet.

As society changes, I can see where electric will be more viable. Young people have less interest in cars and motorcycles, but they have accepted the "rent by the minute" electric scooters in many big cities. Short distances, no investment. I think that generation will be more accepting of the limitations of e-vehicles.

An interesting time to be alive!
Ossessionato
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:28 am quote
Re: Future
Bill Dog wrote:
A few years back I met a guy who searches and drills for oil.

Once the well is found it's capped and left for the future.

I asked him how many years of oil there's left and he said till around 2060.

There's tonnes of it left, it's just going to be the cost of getting it out that's going to eventually be prohibitive.

So is the combustion engine dead ?

Not for a long time yet.

Bill x
a Canadian company, is already making a liquid fuel by sucking carbon dioxide (CO2) out of the atmosphere and combining it with hydrogen from water.

Combustion engines could be around for a very very long time.
Ossessionato
2006 GT200
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm quote
Dump the pedals on that Avionics and I'm in! Love those lines.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:39 pm quote
tortoise wrote:
In the USA . . .

CSC Motorcycles is selling the City Slicker . . made by Zongshen.

Sym/Lance . . "We are gauging interest please let us know what you think! No details or prices just yet, just testing the market." . . Facebook.

Zongshen promotes the "City Slicker" under their own brand as a "E2GO" in some countries. Looking pretty much as a Honda Grom clone it made me think - Honda just missed an opportunity by bringing the Monkey back with a combustion engine. How cool would that be with an electric engine....

Those removable batteries City Slicker and many others have - a necessity in many places, but darn they are still heavy....

In the Northern Scandinavia we are "lucky" to have 240V outlets commonly at residental car parks due to electric heating devices in the cars.....and unlucky to have cold weather making 2-wheeled fun more challenging at times.
Ossessionato
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Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:45 pm quote
Re: Future
Bill Dog wrote:
A few years back I met a guy who searches and drills for oil.

Once the well is found it's capped and left for the future.

I asked him how many years of oil there's left and he said till around 2060.

There's tonnes of it left, it's just going to be the cost of getting it out that's going to eventually be prohibitive.

So is the combustion engine dead ?

Not for a long time yet.

Bill x
The answer to your question, according to this article, is no.

https://www.thoughtco.com/we-will-never-run-out-of-oil-1146242
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:42 pm quote
Re: Future
Jet Peddler wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
A few years back I met a guy who searches and drills for oil.

Once the well is found it's capped and left for the future.

I asked him how many years of oil there's left and he said till around 2060.

There's tonnes of it left, it's just going to be the cost of getting it out that's going to eventually be prohibitive.

So is the combustion engine dead ?

Not for a long time yet.

Bill x
The answer to your question, according to this article, is no.

https://www.thoughtco.com/we-will-never-run-out-of-oil-1146242
Earth is constantly creating new petrol reserves it's not set amount like we use to think when the thought was that the oil was coming from decaying dinosaurs.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:57 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Earth is constantly creating new petrol reserves it's not set amount like we use to think when the thought was that the oil was coming from decaying dinosaurs.
I don't think that anyone who knows how petroleum was created ever thought that the process stopped at some time in the past. On the other hand, the rate at which we are extracting it far exceeds the rate at which it is being created. Most petroleum being extracted is over 200 million years old. We have only been extracting it for about 150 years.
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