Sometimes I wish it had a kick start .
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Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:25 pm quote
Tried to start my GTS 300 in minus 4 celcius this evening after I parked the scoot in a Cold garage 3 days ago . (roads are nice and dry)

Everything seemed to be ok . The start engine turned the engine but the engine did not start . On Next attempt the start engine did not "grab" the engine but just span freely . The fuel pump and ignition was ok .

I gave up after a while and went for the bus .

Question: Is it just the Cold or did some part (propably plastic?)brake because of the cold?





MV Santa
GTS250, 1960 VBA, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 4126
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:53 pm quote
Re: Sometimes I wish it had a kick start .
Jampa T wrote:
Tried to start my GTS 300 in minus 4 celcius this evening after I parked the scoot in a Cold garage 3 days ago . (roads are nice and dry)

Everything seemed to be ok . The start engine turned the engine but the engine did not start . On Next attempt the start engine did not "grab" the engine but just span freely . The fuel pump and ignition was ok .

I gave up after a while and went for the bus .

Question: Is it just the Cold or did some part (propably plastic?)brake because of the cold?





My guess is that there is nothing wrong with the scoot and it's a combination of cold and a weak battery. How old is it?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10589
Location: Oregon City, OR
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:16 pm quote
In my experience, scooters do not start more easily in cold weather with a kick starter than an electric start with a battery in good condition. Keep your scooter in good tune, keep the battery at full charge, and replace the battery when it will no longer hold a full charge. Do that and it should start at -4 C (25 F), mine does.
Hooked
2009 GTS 250ie
Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Posts: 369
Location: south Texas
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:49 pm quote
Starting at 25 F?? I'll never know.
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:50 pm quote
Its a GTS Super 2016 . In use since 2017 .
The battery is ok . Its just like the start engine spinns without attaching the cogwheel of the engine. I Wonder if something broke due to the cold .
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:25 am quote
Its the starter . I need to take out the starter , open it and see if some part(S) can be replaced .

Is this a job I can do myself ? I have to admit I dont even know what it looks like and where it is located (ofcourse its conected to the motor,but I cant figure out where). A Picture would be nice .

BTW I tired everything else from charging the battery to pre warm the motor . The starter runs like hell but its not Connected to the motor . The outside temp is now +6-8 degrees celcius .
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:35 am quote
Look. Not my video, but I think this is exactly whats going on . Similar sound .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5jrqGgYMkM

And here is the solution I think? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VESPA-GTS-300-STARTER-RELAY-GENUINE-FACTORY-PART-/380423664216
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1698
Location: Finland
Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:50 am quote
Don't have any input into identifying/ fixing the problem, but can also confirm that -4C should not be a problem when the scoot & battery are OK.

This does not have anything to do with your problem, but in general, when using the scoot at -C temperatures, just make sure the liquid engine coolant is changed according to the maintenance intervals with the proper stuff that don't get frozen. If I remember correctly, the standard one recommended by Vespa and used normally handles a bit of freezing fully OK.

Other than that, sub-zero degrees of Celsius should not cause much problems to a fuel injected machine that is used regularly.
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 248
Location: Nebraska
Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:15 pm quote
Maybe
If a part has too much oil or grease on it, it can become 'sticky'. when it gets cold. Before you start swapping parts, might clean the various moving parts, apply a thin coating of oil, and see if it works.
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:17 am quote
Ok. It was not the battery, not the relay or the Cold (its warmer now)
I have to check the starter . Now this looks difficult and I dont fell competent to take it off and apart . Looks like theres a lots of parts that has to be removed to get to the starter .

Should I try anyway?

I keep thinking why did they skip the kick start? I mean how much can it weigh? What if this happens on a road trip ? Can I trust it in the future?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8605
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:22 pm quote
Jampa T wrote:
I keep thinking why did they skip the kick start?
While I too miss the option of kick starting on newer scoots, they are of limited utility on modern, fuel-injected engines. You still need a topped-up battery to power the fuel pump and injector on modern scoots, so a kickstart doesn't help to get around the problem of a flat battery.
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 16

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:16 am quote
The problem was battery cable in contact with frame/body draining power so that engine turner did not turn around .

SOLVED..

Addicted
GTS250, P200E
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:40 am quote
Silver Streak wrote:
You still need a topped-up battery to power the fuel pump and injector...
The new Honda Super Cub is fuel injected and can start on a dead battery. The Tohatsu 20 HP outboard motor is fuel injected (with no battery) and uses a pull start. Unfortunately, you need to pull the Tohatsu cord three times to build up fuel pressure each time you start it. I don't know anything additional about the Super Cub.

The point is that other companies are doing it.

Cheers,
Bob
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1977
Location: London
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:14 am quote
I only ever use the kick start on my Enfield simply because it makes me feel like Marlon Brando. I have to go through quite a ritual each morning to get the old girl to start though - one kick with the clutch in to free up the clutch, another 4 gentle kicks with the engine turned off to get the oil around the engine. Then finally turn on the ignition and then give 4 steady kicks to get her going. On cold days you need to hold the "choke" lever down and on really cold days it sometimes needs a load more kicks. There is of course a start button which works perfectly well but where's the fun in that?

(mine has fuel injection also)
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Posts: 378
Location: Portland OR
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:21 am quote
Jampa T wrote:
The problem was battery cable in contact with frame/body draining power so that engine turner did not turn around .

SOLVED..

Sweet ......
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 248
Location: Nebraska
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:30 pm quote
Ah
robinm wrote:
I only ever use the kick start on my Enfield simply because it makes me feel like Marlon Brando. I have to go through quite a ritual each morning to get the old girl to start though - one kick with the clutch in to free up the clutch, another 4 gentle kicks with the engine turned off to get the oil around the engine. Then finally turn on the ignition and then give 4 steady kicks to get her going. On cold days you need to hold the "choke" lever down and on really cold days it sometimes needs a load more kicks. There is of course a start button which works perfectly well but where's the fun in that?

(mine has fuel injection also)
A return to the 'good old days'. Most kick-start bikes had a 'procedure', depending on the temp, phase of the moon, and your horoscope, seems like. Usually a competition between poor mixture control and a weak spark. Walked a fine line between not enough fuel to start it, and flooding the sparkplug. Oh, and on some bikes, like my XT 500 Yam, you had to gently turn the engine over until the crank was in precisely the right position, or it'd kick back and launch you over the bars. Happy to sell everything that didn't have a start button. If it won't start with the button, something is wrong that needs to be fixed.
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