1980 P200E v 1999 PX200
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Member
2016 PX150 1999 PX200
Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 5
Location: The UK's Premier Seaside Resort
Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:08 pm quote
Hi folks hopefully some of the knowledgeable MV people can answer my question.

I remember about 1986 my pal at the time got hold of a bog standard P200E. It seemed pretty quick at the time and had absolutely no problem lifting the front wheel on the throttle in first gear and on shifting into second.

In contrast my 1999 PX200 although no slouch does not seem to have the beans that that the P200E had. This may just be my poor old aged memory!

I seem to remember a post mentioning that the early P200E had a slightly different head with slightly higher compresssion that accounted for the increased grunt of the earlier model.

Can anyone clarify and is there a way I could make my PX200 more like my mate’s P200E?

Thanks in advance all👍
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6557
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:57 pm quote
Let's put aside the possibility that 32 years have added a couple of hp to your memories for a moment...

The Rally 200 (and early P200s) was apparently the most powerful stock 200. If you look on SIP etc they sell a "12 hp" version of the 200 cylinder which explains a tiny bit - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+kit+piaggio+200+cc+_41470800

Typically I can't find it now, but a port map comparison of the Rally to the PX shows that the port timing was lowered at some point which lost power.
If you add in a couple of differences like ignition timing and jetting on the individual scooters it could go some way towards an explanation.
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2008 GTS 250, 1979 P200E
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 838
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:11 pm quote
Also, there is some "technique" in bringing the front tire up. I had a friend that had the exact same scooter as mine (Bajaj Chetak 4t) and in 2nd gear I could get that tire just fine in the air. He said his bike was defective and wouldn't do it. So I took it down the street and in front of his house pulled the front tire up in 2nd. Tons of grunt on those 4t Chetaks but it was technique to get the front tire up.

BTW, I explained what I was doing (already in gear, hit the throttle and lean and pull back). He kept using the clutch and went through a few cables. I hate to see what his clutch looked like!
Addicted
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: London UK
Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 am quote
There were differences even in the 80's. Some were faster than others. At the time we never knew what it was but now we do! And it can be easily fixed.

As ginch said, the porting. But apart from the 10bhp and 12bhp cylinders, there are the manufacturing variables, which are not as insignificant as we might hope.

By changing the base gasket thickness it is possible to put the porting nearer where it was supposed to be. 12bhp standard P200 should have 160 degrees of exhaust duration. If yours has less than this 160 degrees it will feel really strong and wheelie easily but out on the open road it will be slow and get hot.
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 44

Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:21 am quote
Theory and reading from books is one thing. Experience is another.

I have ridden 3 different px200s, all stock. None of them have catalytic converters. One of them was extremely fast. The other 2 were a bit slow. On the slow ones, we added drilled out heart recess air filters, and SIP road 2.0 pipes, which helped with low and mid torque, but still doesn't match the top speed of the fast one (probably 67mph while the slow ones are 61mph).

I have ridden a bone stock 1976 Rally 200. It is way more powerful than the the slow px200s and probably a little more powerful and faster than the fast PX200. I dont 'know about top speed though.

We did not tear these apart to look for little changes in porting, squish, etc. Suffice to say that all 200s are not equal.
Member
2016 PX150 1999 PX200
Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 5
Location: The UK's Premier Seaside Resort
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:06 pm quote
Thanks for the replies.

I’m aware of the 2hp difference between the P200 of old and its modern counterpart and of my retrospective ‘speedy goggles’!

My mate’s P200 was definitely a quick one and as said it was all down to manufacturing differences.

I definitely remember stock Rally 200s being dead quick but we never did the ‘science’ then!

I may have a tweak of my PX200 but I’m pretty happy with what the old girl pushes out.

Keep on Vespin’
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