Key programming
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 7970
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:52 pm quote
Having a few challenges programming keys. First mistake was impulsively getting the cheaper blue key (Scooterwest) which, as it turns out needs coding by a dealer(?), so wouldn't work with the basic programming procedure.

Ordered an exact replacement from my dealer, but in the meantime, after sorting through a pile of stuff, found a black Piaggio key blank that I must have ordered months or so with other stuff and promptly forgot about. Figured I had nothing to lose, had that one cut, and like the first, wouldn't program.

So, I'm assuming both of these keys are lacking what I need for programming.

Is it safe to expect that the proper key will program? I have the option of returning it at this point, but obviously once I have it cut, it's mine.

Am I missing anything? I just don't want to strike out a third time if there's something I'm not getting right.
Addicted
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 566
Location: Toronto
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:08 pm quote
Are you sure you are using Vespa keys with an embedded immobilizer chip? I think you can check by looking for the engraved chip symbol.

A Vespa key programmable only by dealer is news to me. I understood there are some cheaper clone keys that need to be programmed with a special cloning machine (by dealer, locksmith, etc). For example I have one for my LX made by JMA. But I understood that you are talking about actual Vespa keys where I did not think this "special programming" would apply.

chip key.jpg

Ossessionato
LXV 150 Midnight Blue (SOLD)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2427
Location: Bangkok
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:12 pm quote
I read on here somewhere that sometimes "hole up" or "hole down" makes a difference.
Hooked
2016 LXV 150 ie, 2009 GTS Super, 1978 Vespa P125
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 348
Location: central Illinois USA
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:14 pm quote
Bought my new LXV in June of 2016 from Moto Europa, St. Louis MO and had them order a ‘back up’ key, blue key. I picked it up the next time I was down in the city, took it to my local locksmith with my other original keys, the blue 1 I was using the scoot with and the brown ‘master’ key. And my book, and the Haynes book. The locksmith cut the key for me and then, since he had no customers, went out to watch me program the new key...which I did, by following the directions exactly.... and now I have the master put away, my ‘running’ key and hanging up with keys, is that blue ‘backup’ key—which if needed, my son will rescue from the house and bring to me...wherever I am sitting with a scoot and no key-cuz I managed to loose it... so far that has NOT happened, but I can use either key on that scoot...and the master stays safely tucked away in my jewelry box. But I have the original brown master key.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 7970
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:19 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
I read on here somewhere that sometimes "hole up" or "hole down" makes a difference.
I'd read that too....but it didn't help.
berto wrote:
Are you sure you are using Vespa keys with an embedded immobilizer chip? I think you can check by looking for the engraved chip symbol.

A Vespa key programmable only by dealer is news to me. I understood there are some cheaper clone keys that need to be programmed with a special cloning machine (by dealer, locksmith, etc). For example I have one for my LX made by JMA. But I understood that you are talking about actual Vespa keys where I did not think this "special programming" would apply.
I think you've likely got it. The first key is a JMA. The Piaggio key doesn't have the engraving, and now that I think about it, I think it was one of two keys sent to me by the dealer as a replacement for a lost topcase key..... it was the wrong size, but he told me to just keep it. It's all making sense now.

Guess I'll go ahead and have the key from the dealer cut when I get it, and hopefully problem solved. I'm going to guard all of my (useable) keys with my life.

One of the good things from all of this is dealing with an awesome key service. Both times he cut my keys amazingly fast, handed the first one to me and said "no charge" and the second one with "let me know how that works." I'm going to force him to take my money this time....

Last edited by fledermaus on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2428
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:27 pm quote
Which scooter are you making the key for?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 7970
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:32 pm quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
Which scooter are you making the key for?
The GTS.

I'm in good shape with the BV after the seller finally discovered his brown key.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2428
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:40 pm quote
Sorry, I can't help you much there. I suppose it's different from the BV in some way.
Member
1980/2003 Vestella -- 2004 GT200
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 33
Location: SoCal
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:40 pm quote
Is your JMA key part # KB10 from scooterwest?

That key has a blank, clonable, transponder in it. Take it (and your original) to a locksmith or hardware store and ask them to clone/copy the transponder for you. If they can copy transponders, then they can clone yours.

Once cloned it will work just like the original, no programming needed.

--This paragraph removed because it was wrong.--

Last edited by 1stGear on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 242
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:50 pm quote
The key for the BV350 is different from the key for the GTS. It is larger and more expensive, but is programmed the same way.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 7970
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:54 am quote
1stGear wrote:
Is your JMA key part # KB10 from scooterwest?

That key has a blank, clonable, transponder in it. Take it (and your original) to a locksmith or hardware store and ask them to clone/copy the transponder for you. If they can copy transponder keys, then they can clone yours.

Once cloned it will work just like the original, no programming needed.

FYI, the immobilizer LED will tell you if the key has a transponder or not when you turn the switch to ON. Between the first 0.7 second light and the solid light you will see 2 or 3 flashes; 2 = transponder not found, 3 = invalid transponder found.
Apparently my locksmith can't do it...or misunderstood my issue. Thought I might keep trying to find someone to do so as long as I have the key, but the JMA key is also thinner and might be the cause of some catching in the ignition, so best as a third-tier backup. If my dealer can't, he can probably point me toward someone near him that can. Problem is he's 70 miles away and I can get a few keys for the price of the drive alone.....

Was aware of the flashing code, though IIRC it didn't fit that pattern when flashing.
Member
1980/2003 Vestella -- 2004 GT200
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 33
Location: SoCal
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
1stGear wrote:
Is your JMA key part # KB10 from scooterwest?

That key has a blank, clonable, transponder in it. Take it (and your original) to a locksmith or hardware store and ask them to clone/copy the transponder for you. If they can copy transponder keys, then they can clone yours.

Once cloned it will work just like the original, no programming needed.

FYI, the immobilizer LED will tell you if the key has a transponder or not when you turn the switch to ON. Between the first 0.7 second light and the solid light you will see 2 or 3 flashes; 2 = transponder not found, 3 = invalid transponder found.
Apparently my locksmith can't do it...or misunderstood my issue. Thought I might keep trying to find someone to do so as long as I have the key, but the JMA key is also thinner and might be the cause of some catching in the ignition, so best as a third-tier backup. If my dealer can't, he can probably point me toward someone near him that can. Problem is he's 70 miles away and I can get a few keys for the price of the drive alone.....

Was aware of the flashing code, though IIRC it didn't fit that pattern when flashing.
Ask your locksmith if he has a transponder reader/cloner. Like a Silca RW1 or RW4. The device is used to read the code from the original transponder, then write that same code on to a compatible blank "clonable" transponder such as the one in that KB10 JMA key.

Also, I just did some testing on my GT and I was wrong about the blink codes identifying a key with a blank transponder. A blank "clonable" transponder gives the same 2-flash "transponder not found" code as not even having a transponder. Only a programmed transponder that passes the ECU's algorithm check (before failing the "Hey, do I know you?" check) will return 3 blinks. FYI, that algorithm check is the reason that a blank transponder can't be programmed (via the brown/red master key) into the system to begin with.

As for the key catching, that's most likely due to the accuracy of the cut. It's probably a few thousands off compared to the original.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 4946
Location: South Carolina
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 pm quote
You can get a real programmable Vespa key for about $25, and program it with your existing brown key. That seems hard to beat.
There is a new blank for the bike with the immobilizer, and it is black, but it does have that little symbol. The ones that don't have it aren't ever going to program.

Real Blue Key
https://scooterpartsco.com/recambi-scooter/pontedera/vespa-blue-key-blank-573426
Ossessionato
LXV 150 Midnight Blue (SOLD)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2427
Location: Bangkok
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:31 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
You can get a real programmable Vespa key for about $25, and program it with your existing brown key. That seems hard to beat.
There is a new blank for the bike with the immobilizer, and it is black, but it does have that little symbol. The ones that don't have it aren't ever going to program.

Real Blue Key
https://scooterpartsco.com/recambi-scooter/pontedera/vespa-blue-key-blank-573426
My blue key doesn't have a symbol.
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 4946
Location: South Carolina
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:42 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
My blue key doesn't have a symbol.
Does your bike have an immobilizer?
Molto Verboso
Primavera ET3 & PX150 & GTS 300
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 1369
Location: Berlin
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:54 pm quote
No symbol on my blue key either, but it's a Euro model GTS.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 Midnight Blue (SOLD)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2427
Location: Bangkok
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:55 pm quote
Who knows? It is a 2016 and has a red light that flashes when it is parked.
Came with two keys. Brown and blue.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8080
Location: New Hampshire
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:58 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
Who knows? It is a 2016 and has a red light that flashes when it is parked.
Came with two keys. Brown and blue.
That is correct. The red light flashing will stop after a day or so of non-use.
Molto Verboso
Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 1897
Location: St. Pete, Fla
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:04 am quote
It has been awhile, but I know that last key I programmed I had problems when following Robots instructions. I can not remember exactly how I solved it but I followed the same sequence but I either quickly turned the key on and off faster than Robot or I did it slower. A quick on and and off not waiting for the light to go out "I think" was what I did. Again, I may have left it a few seconds longer.
Sorry I cannot remember more. All I can recall is I had a problem and changing the timing solved the problem.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 7970
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:57 am quote
lostboater wrote:
It has been awhile, but I know that last key I programmed I had problems when following Robots instructions. I can not remember exactly how I solved it but I followed the same sequence but I either quickly turned the key on and off faster than Robot or I did it slower. A quick on and and off not waiting for the light to go out "I think" was what I did. Again, I may have left it a few seconds longer.
Sorry I cannot remember more. All I can recall is I had a problem and changing the timing solved the problem.
I remember the same, I did get a previous key programmed after a half-dozen (maybe less) tries. Can take a bit of patience. I think this time I'd bombed out with the wrong key blanks. Still waiting for the right one to arrive....

BTW, Motovista has the best deal in town for keys, but I wanted to give my local dealer a shot at making a few bucks off of me.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8080
Location: New Hampshire
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:21 am quote
From our wiki:

ALL: Programming New Keys
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 4946
Location: South Carolina
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:37 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
Motovista wrote:
You can get a real programmable Vespa key for about $25, and program it with your existing brown key. That seems hard to beat.
There is a new blank for the bike with the immobilizer, and it is black, but it does have that little symbol. The ones that don't have it aren't ever going to program.

Real Blue Key
https://scooterpartsco.com/recambi-scooter/pontedera/vespa-blue-key-blank-573426
My blue key doesn't have a symbol.
Those are the keys Piaggio is getting from Minda, instead of their usual supplier Giobert. They still get keys from both places and the Minda ones are supposed to work only in the later model immobilizer, but probably work in all of them.
Enthusiast
2019 Primavera 150 Touring
Joined: 21 Sep 2018
Posts: 71
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:34 am quote
I purchased my blue key from scooterpartsco.com because I was tired of getting confused of looking for the correct key to start my bike and to open my top box box. I followed these directions from robot and it worked.

Good luck!
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