Super 150 12v conversion
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Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:11 pm quote
Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a quality 6v to 12v conversation kit for a 1974 vespa super 150.

I've been having lighting and charging problems with my bike for a while, and it might be hard to explain why my blinkers barely work when it comes time for me to take my license test.

I was also wondering about the difficulty of a conversation like this, and what goes into it. I don't have much experience wiring electronics beyond installing a car stereo.

Thanks guys
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1055
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:25 pm quote
Your choices are:

1. Original engine + after market 12v conversion (beware of poor quality)
2. Original engine + hybrid crankshaft + PX ignition
3. Complete PX engine swap

I was very happy with 3. until I became precious about having the correct/factory engine, so I reverted to 2. Option 1. just seemed like the wrong way to go, but each to their own.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:42 pm quote
With the aftermarket conversion, are there any that people have had good luck with?

Otherwise It's kind of a shame to swap my Vespa's engine, as it only has 3000 original miles and runs more reliably then my daily driver. Aside from fouling a plug once it's been insanely reliable. However I wouldn't put an engine swap out of the question, depending on it's ease, and whether or not I could squeeze more power out of a PX engine.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1055
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:48 pm quote
Yes, there are good conversions (stator, flywheel and CDI). I have heard that the basic Bajaj/Indian ones are ok. Do you have a battery? The wiring is usually explained in a simple sheet that comes with the kit, but a forum like this will help you.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:16 am quote
Yes my bike has a battery. I've seen some of the Bajaj kits but I've heard conflicting things about them. Picking the right one didn't look very clear either.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4600
Location: So Cal
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:45 am quote
Welcome to the forum.

The 6v battery systems work fine if the wiring is intact and the connections are good. Can you be more specific exactly what problem(s) youíre having?

As said, there are several 12v conversion kits. Iíd avoid the Bajaj. Vespatronic is probably your best bet if you want to go to an electronic ignition.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:26 pm quote
Vespatronic Huh? Haven't heard of them but I'll look it up. Right now the wiring system I have has a lot of difficulty holding a charge for long. If I'm running the headlights constantly the battery will need to be recharged at least once a week. My suspicion is that the stator plate is no good. But even when it has a good charge it has a lot of trouble running headlights and blinkers at the same time. Even when the connections between the engine cover and blinker are good.
Hooked
Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 207
Location: Ohio USA
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:02 pm quote
This is a US market 1974 Super with oil injection, turn signals, and battery powered headlight?

The most convoluted wiring harness in all of the US market Vespas. Best to get the original electrics sorted, no aftermarket kit plays well with the 74 US bikes with battery..
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:15 pm quote
Haha yeah that's what I'm hearing. Thanks for the welcome by the way.

By get the electronics sorted do you mean look into a new stator plate? I'm not sure what else to look into that might be causing this problem. It's good to know ahead of time that most kits won't work though. Glad I didn't waste any money already.
Addicted
69 VLB, 79 P200, P125/Stella and a couple frames
Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 908
Location: Alabama
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:38 pm quote
If you decide to convert this can I have your fuse box and regulator?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3676
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:45 am quote
Where are you located? Will there be a mandatory inspection of the bike that requires the signals to be on and working? If your stator is in good shape, you can always convert to AC and ditch the regulator that is often the problem. The battery goes then too, so you can't show working lights with engine off and you probably won't end up with working signals, but you do end up with 12V electrics and a good headlight and tail light. It's not for everyone, but is another option on the double yellow stators. I have a thread on how to do it if you are interested.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 am quote
I'm in Wisconsin. I'm pretty sure I'll be required to show working equipment to pass license testing. I'm just guessing though as they do that for autos when you go for your license.

Since the bike was shipped with blinkers I don't think I could get away with deleting them unless the tester was unfamiliar with the law.

Although I'm betting if the blinkers and lights only worked when the bike was running that would be fine. I'd have to look into it but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

Right now I'm looking into replacing the stator. To see if that helps. Do you think a replacement regulator might help too? Right now it appears that the charging system isn't working well enough to keep the battery charged for long.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4600
Location: So Cal
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:45 am quote
Before you start replacing random parts, get out your multimeter and do some tests to pinpoint why the battery isnít holding a charge.

How old is the battery?

Whatís the voltage at full charge?

Is the fuse and wiring between the battery and rectifier intact?

What AC voltage is coming off the yellow stator into the rectifier?

What DC voltage is coming out of the rectifier?

Let us know what you find.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3676
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Before you start replacing random parts, get out your multimeter and do some tests to pinpoint why the battery isnít holding a charge.

How old is the battery?

Whatís the voltage at full charge?

Is the fuse and wiring between the battery and rectifier intact?

What AC voltage is coming off the yellow stator into the rectifier?

What DC voltage is coming out of the rectifier?

Let us know what you find.
this is a great place to start. and don't forget scooter mercato and scooterwest among others can rebuild your stator if you want to stay original. figure out what's wrong and then you can decide the next steps that make the most sense for you.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a herd of easy shifty rats
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6786
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm quote
Can you pick up a 14mm combination wrench with your flywheel? Sometimes the magnets get too weak, but the flywheel can be remagnetized. I have no experience here, but maybe somebody who has done this can advise you where to get it done if needed.
Hooked
Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 207
Location: Ohio USA
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:08 pm quote
Ground, ground, grounds.

The battery needs to have a good ground to the chassis.

The rear turn signal housings need to ground to the cowls, which need to ground to the chassis.

The front turn signal housings need to ground to the handlebar, and be grounded through the wiring harness to the chassis.

The turn signals may need 6v10w bulbs if using an original thermal flasher. If you have converted to a solid state flasher then 6v18w bulbs should be fine.

Battery needs to be fully charged, 7.2 volts or so.

Check the wiring diagram on scooterhelp.com.
Hooked
1960 Series 2 Lambretta, 1962ish API series 2 Lambretta, 1974 Vespa Super 150, 1978 Rally 200
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 240
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 pm quote
As a fellow Wisconsonite I'd recommend that you borrow another bike for the test. For sure there's somebody with a 250 Honda or something similar you can borrow for the day. I believe it'll save you a lot of time and hassle.

You can work on the Super as you go. It's an old motorcycle - it's going to always need some TLC.
Hooked
Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 207
Location: Ohio USA
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:28 pm quote
^^^Absolutely this. ^^^

If you are getting your endorsement use an automatic with all the safety items. It's awesome to pull it off with a manual scoot, but the reality is go with a modern loaner.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6839
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:09 pm quote
Another option is to go LED with the blinkers (including LED flasher) and supply the DC via a bridge rectifier or the battery. That will take a big load off, even after you have checked out all the stuff that SoCalGuy mentioned.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:01 pm quote
Thanks for all of the input guys,

I'll begin with checking the voltages. The battery is only a few months old, So I'm hoping it's not the weak link here. Anyway I don't actually have a multimeter but I can probably borrow one for the local autoparts shop. Between my Vespa and my other classic cars I'm on a first name basis.

I have a few questions for SoCalGuy, I'm not entirely familiar with the anatomy of my Vespa yet, is there a diagram that will show me the location of my Rectifier?

I'm not the kind of guy who goes crazy about parts being original or not, I care more about having my bike running perfectly. So I'd probably just buy a new stator if it comes to that.

As soon as I get home I'll try to see if my flywheel will hold some kind of metal to look into that.

I believe that the grounds for the battery at least are good. The rear turn signal to the cowl though is another story. But every so often I polish up the connections when the turn signals are being especially finicky. I'll check the front turn signals when I get home too. I believe they are good though. And thanks for the exact voltage I should be looking for vma1racer, I assumed before hand that I should be looking for 6v.

As for taking the test on another bike this is something I would rather do with my Vespa. It's just something I'm more familiar with and comfortable with. I have until summer to get the issues with charging sorted out, otherwise mechanically the bike is perfect. I'll take getting a loaner into consideration though. It would be something to brag about if I could do it with my old Vespa though lol.

And thanks for the tip on the LED blinker, is there any more info on that?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6839
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:38 pm quote
Humanbean wrote:
And thanks for the tip on the LED blinker, is there any more info on that?
I switched to LED bulbs for my turn signals - here's how!
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:25 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Humanbean wrote:
And thanks for the tip on the LED blinker, is there any more info on that?
I switched to LED bulbs for my turn signals - here's how!
Thanks Ginch, that looks perfect for my situation. I'm having the exact same problems the guy in the video was talking about. During the day the lights are so dim I might as well have a candle in the pod.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4600
Location: So Cal
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:57 pm quote
Hereís a diagram.

https://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wiring/VLB1T.VBC1T.w.ind.batt.pdf

The rectifier is in the left cowl next to the battery. It looks like this (this pic is from a smallframe):

A2B0B00C-3413-4888-9B99-AB868A904424.jpeg

Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 am quote
Nice, thanks SoCalGuy

Will post results in the next few days.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4600
Location: So Cal
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:02 am quote
No problem.

As for multimeter, itís a tool every vintage owner should have. I have an extra one that was given to me by MJRally (actually I kind of accidentally drove off with it). He said to gift it forward, so if you want it, PM me and itís yours.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3827
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:06 am quote
You did not mention the year of the Super, but if it has factory siganals, it would have to be a 74 to 79? The set up on these years are that the signals work directly off the battery and the stator can barely keep up the volts for the battery. If is just a test you are worried about, charge up the battery (slowly) like with a battery tender, hook it up and take the test. If you want to retain the signals, plan on keeping it on a tender when you are not riding. Simplest way out that I can think of. But then I always use hand signals to convey my turning intentions as no one around here notices signals.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:44 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
You did not mention the year of the Super, but if it has factory siganals, it would have to be a 74 to 79? The set up on these years are that the signals work directly off the battery and the stator can barely keep up the volts for the battery. If is just a test you are worried about, charge up the battery (slowly) like with a battery tender, hook it up and take the test. If you want to retain the signals, plan on keeping it on a tender when you are not riding. Simplest way out that I can think of. But then I always use hand signals to convey my turning intentions as no one around here notices signals.
Heyo, the year on my Vespa is the 1974. Sorry I didn't mention sooner, probably would have been helpful if I had.

Keeping it on a tender is what I have been doing all summer and fall, and part of winter. Lucky for me my Vespa lives inside of my apartment with me so it isn't a pain. I've been doing a little bit of hand signalling but it isn't my cup of tea. I'd rather just have a working system.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:04 pm quote
Well I followed SoCal's instructions to the best of my abilities. I checked both of the yellow wires coming off of the rectifier (tell me if that isn't right) for AC and DC charges. With the multimeter set to 9v which I assumed was the right setting. Everything registered around a 6.2v. I think the battery wasn't fully charged though because someone had said it should read around 7.2v? Correct me if I'm wrong. The battery itself also registered 6.2v so it looks like it isn't losing anything to the rectifier. All of these tests were done with the bike off though. I'm not sure if that was right. And the entire time the blinkers were not working at all.

Sorry again, I don't have a lot of expertise working with electrics. Typically my dad helps me but he's pretty busy and I think it's important to learn these things.

Thanks for the help so far guys, what should I do from here? I'm still leaving towards the LED lights. I'm guessing the old bulbs aren't the best anyway.
Member
Vespa super 150
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 41

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:08 am quote
Converted my Vespa over to LED bulbs, I've noticed a huge improvement. Thanks for the suggestion guys! I road a little yesterday and I noticed some issues, they were rapidly losing brightness. Right now I'm chalking that up to cold weather and maybe an unsecured flasher relay. As soon as I took it inside and let the bike heat up a little they worked just fine. I still need to check the battery for charge though. I have noticed though that when the headlight is on the blinkers are dimmer and hesitate more though.
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