Autonomous Cars N/S/R
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm quote
So what's the attraction ?

I couldn't think of anything worse than being driven around by something.

I'm not sure I could be driven around by a machine as I have enough issues with Taxi driver who hasn't been introduced by two members of my family.

Discuss.

Bill x
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:18 pm quote
I agree. But I'm a driving/riding enthusiast. I still prefer driving a car with a manual transmission (PTWs too for that matter).

I think a large segment of the population would prefer to spend their commute time doing other things. Catching up on work, preparing for a meeting, talking with someone on the phone, texting, social media, etc. Unfortunately they do that already today in their non-autonomous vehicles and it puts us all at risk.

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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:02 pm quote
After more then 100 years of the automobile, we still havenít figured out how to drive them. So this is inevitable.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:05 pm quote
Do
But the question is why would you want to ?

It wouldn't be driving, it would be sitting.

Bill x
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:15 pm quote
Right now I wouldnít want to either, but thatís because of our generation having our current opportunities.

Admittedly they are a way off yet, and mixing autonomous and driver cars is lethal in my opinion BUT in a few generations time Iím certain itíll be the norm and they will think we where mad.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 pm quote
I drive race cars and love riding my moto's. I do not consider much of my "driving", driving.
Sitting behind a steering wheel waiting for the car ahead to move forward so I can move forward... That's not driving. Yep, I can't wait for full autonomous cars.
Last Thursday I "drove" a 90 mile commute from the South Bay to my office/home in the North Bay. My new car has active cruise control. I set the set point for 80MPH and the car drove the last 60 miles without my touching the brake or gas pedals. It was a piece of heaven.
Strangely, I was involved. I changed lanes and chose a path through traffic that allowed the cruise control to do its thing.
Another step towards removing the tedium from my tedious drive.
eeee-bip
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:28 pm quote
Control
You see I can't use cruise control either.

I really want to retain as much control as I can.

Bill x
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:31 pm quote
I think when AI takes over, vehicle transportation will become a lot safer. Now I worry that the vehicle operator coming toward me in the opposite lane may not be paying attention or is distracted.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:43 pm quote
Re: Autonomous Cars N/S/R
Bill Dog wrote:
So what's the attraction ?

I couldn't think of anything worse than being driven around by something.

I'm not sure I could be driven around by a machine as I have enough issues with Taxi driver who hasn't been introduced by two members of my family.

Discuss.

Bill x
Last year to help my cub scouts earn their technology badge. I had to have a discussion with them. 3rd graders 8-9 year old. The discussion got on alternative fuel type of ideas and led towards transportation. These young ones didn't seem to mind the idea of a computer operating the vehicle to get them where they need to go. Now, keep in mind most of them are transported this way already with parents being the ones controlling the vehicle that gets them from A to B.

I chalked it up to the fact that they haven't operated their own mode of transportation and the freedom that brings. Yet, it got me thinking. Our little suburb has invested in a city owned "Uber/Lyft" called Via. Right now, the main users are the elderly to get them to the store or Doctor's appointments and the young when parents aren't physically able to transport their kids.

I only bring this up as technology is advancing, so are we and we are programming ourselves. To which I mean, a rideshare application allows you to use your portable computer/mobile phone device to "hail a cab" Track the progress of the ride to your location. Jump in. Currently it has another human as the operator of the vehicle but I know people who do not communicate at all with their rideshare drivers. And if the main users are the bookends of the spectrum (The elderly and the youth, basically the segment of society who cannot operate vehicles) then it's not hard to see how the youth/children are already programmed to trust in an outside influence to get them safely to wherever they need to travel. If the technology advances enough to have Autonomous machines operating as the main mode of transportation. They are already adapted to this model and will become the main users.

So if these autonomous vehicles start working out their glitches and traffic accidents/deaths go down. I can easily foresee government mandating that they be the main operators on the roadways. Remember friends, driving is a privilege not a right! While it's a horrific and gut-wrenching sentiment for me and most of us here as we are programmed and trained to operate our transportation. I can see how the youth coming up won't be bothered by this transition. Eventually we will age out and have to use the autonomous machines. But, I will only do so when I am unable to safely operate my own methods of transportation!

Though, even the Scout leader mentioned after this conversation that he wouldn't even mind that much if the autonomous machines helped him in commuting. He'd love to catch up on work or personal email/social media. Listen to the radio or do other forms of entertainment and not have to worry about the responsibility of operating the transportation machines. He did express horror as well but was open to the idea for the things stated.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:45 pm quote
Someday, people will not want other humans driving cars on highways and around cities because they are not safe. I look forward to this day.
Now, driving on "driver's roads" in the countryside is another thing altogether! Fun will continue...
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:55 pm quote
Many people commute now by train, bus, or Uber and use the time to do some work. I think the main public will endorse autonomous vehicles.

I still have questions on how an autonomous vehicle will recognize a police officer directing traffic around a crash or other scene and how it will obey any hand signals 'telling it' to take a detour.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:09 pm quote
Vintage1
All good questions that will be answered by technology that already exists but is not networked yet.
The cop has a smartphone.
Traffic information is radioed from ground and GPS to car to car to car, etc. to create a network of constant information. Humans process the information now. We OFTEN miss information that's right in front of us. We drive slowly and carefully and sometimes crash into each other anyway.
Processors will process this information in the future.
Networks. Car to car. GPS. Onboard sensors. Almost all available and reliable now. There will be teething errors, many to do with human programming, some from things that we don't know that we don't know. Humans didn't get where we are now by not taking chances. It's in our nature. We could not maintain the present population levels without technology. We trust technology with our lives and those of our closest loved ones all the time. There's always fear of the future.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:13 pm quote
tommylittlescooter wrote:
After more then 100 years of the automobile, we still havenít figured out how to drive them. So this is inevitable.
Speak for yourself, I can drive and not text or talk on the phone without hands free interface. I have hundreds of thousands of miles driving, with one little fender bend when I we 18 driving a work van, 58 now.

I do the one thing you are suppose to do when you drive, drive.

As long as I can drive I will not be in an autonomous car.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:21 pm quote
That's quite a claim.
If you're around long enough you'll ride in one, and probably like it.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:36 pm quote
SCTLVR, good points. I imagine eventually all autonomous vehicles will be in constant contact with each other and they will be informed of any crashes or roadblocks in real time. And any people driven vehicles still around during whatever transition period there is will also have this communication built in.

I still wonder though, if an autonomous vehicle is say, traveling along at 45 MPH down a two lane road, and you are traveling in the opposite direction on your 'antique' scooter, and suddenly a woman and three children step into the roadway and the AI controlled vehicle determines it can't stop in time to avoid striking them, will the vehicle decide to instead swerve and kill you, one victim, as opposed to killing four?

I know, that's a weird thought. But in my defense, I never said I was normal.

Last edited by Vintage1 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:37 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
tommylittlescooter wrote:
After more then 100 years of the automobile, we still havenít figured out how to drive them. So this is inevitable.
Speak for yourself, I can drive and not text or talk on the phone without hands free interface. I have hundreds of thousands of miles driving, with one little fender bend when I we 18 driving a work van, 58 now.

I do the one thing you are suppose to do when you drive, drive.

As long as I can drive I will not be in an autonomous car.
+1
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:44 pm quote
At the speed of a microprocessor using software, the decision will be taken. Probably like you state. You go first. I'd rather the SW make the decision from a logical standpoint.
There would be the usual consideration of how many are in the car and what vehicles might be behind you and how close vehicles are following it. Many decisions made with the knowledge of the best path to avoid the most carnage. A human could not make such a decision based on our very-limited knowledge of our surroundings and capacities. Also, maybe the car do something a human would not consider; flash lights/honk horn to get your attention, for example. It would almost certainly thread the needle between you and the kids.
As you may note, the people in this scenario are the real danger; Why did they step out in front of an approaching car?
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:46 pm quote
Glad to read that my fellow scootists are good drivers!
Don't play with your phone while driving.
Drive while you're driving!
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:59 pm quote
shoprat75 wrote:
I think when AI takes over, vehicle transportation will become a lot safer. Now I worry that the vehicle operator coming toward me in the opposite lane may not be paying attention or is distracted.
As an electrical engineer of nearly 50 years' experience, I can think of nothing scarier than completely turning over my personal safety to AI. We're a long, long way from AI systems that can deal with that unquantifiable thing called "judgement."
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:15 pm quote
As a EE, I do trust that we will be there in not too much time.
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:42 pm quote
Re: Do
Bill Dog wrote:
But the question is why would you want to ?

It wouldn't be driving, it would be sitting.

Bill x
It's not a matter of wanting.

Some busy businesspeople have no choice. It's either multi-task or spend an extra hour or two at the office cheating your wife and kids.

If I was that busy I'd welcome the opportunity to do so. Not much different than taking an Uber or Lyft.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:20 am quote
I don't see what problem they solve in congested cities.

I will filter past you suckers sat in your soleless vehicles on my two-wheeled love machine

picoftheday0012-space-60people.jpg

eeee-bip
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:23 am quote
Bosh
Or get another job.

That's that sorted.

Bill x
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:56 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
At the speed of a microprocessor using software, the decision will be taken. Probably like you state. You go first. I'd rather the SW make the decision from a logical standpoint.
There would be the usual consideration of how many are in the car and what vehicles might be behind you and how close vehicles are following it. Many decisions made with the knowledge of the best path to avoid the most carnage. A human could not make such a decision based on our very-limited knowledge of our surroundings and capacities. Also, maybe the car do something a human would not consider; flash lights/honk horn to get your attention, for example. It would almost certainly thread the needle between you and the kids.
As you may note, the people in this scenario are the real danger; Why did they step out in front of an approaching car?
Oh it's not that I would not trust the technology. It better than most drivers as it is today
I just enjoy driving. That Autonomous car isn't going to accelerate into a nice tight turn to the just the edge of losing traction
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:14 am quote
Driving for enjoyment in the future will be done using "Virtual Reality Simulators". You will be able to drive as fast and reckless as you want, drink coffee, text, or whatever else you do while driving, and nobody will get hurt. Just a thought.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:26 am quote
shoprat75 wrote:
Driving for enjoyment in the future will be done using "Virtual Reality Simulators". You will be able to drive as fast and reckless as you want, drink coffee, text, or whatever else you do while driving, and nobody will get hurt. Just a thought.
Not the same. how do you go to a Classic car rally Virtually?
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:36 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
shoprat75 wrote:
Driving for enjoyment in the future will be done using "Virtual Reality Simulators". You will be able to drive as fast and reckless as you want, drink coffee, text, or whatever else you do while driving, and nobody will get hurt. Just a thought.
Not the same. how do you go to a Classic car rally Virtually?
Old iron will still be on display in the museum. You will get there on the driverless bus.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:31 am quote
shoprat75 wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
shoprat75 wrote:
Driving for enjoyment in the future will be done using "Virtual Reality Simulators". You will be able to drive as fast and reckless as you want, drink coffee, text, or whatever else you do while driving, and nobody will get hurt. Just a thought.
Not the same. how do you go to a Classic car rally Virtually?
Old iron will still be on display in the museum. You will get there on the driverless bus.
Ok, want about the people that have Classic cars that want to drive them? Mecum Auction just sold over 100 Million Dollars worth of cars in Kissimmee Fl in the past week Highest earning Auction in their history.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:06 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Or get another job.

That's that sorted.

Bill x
Unrealistic.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:09 am quote
Bippa
Why ?

Every job that I've no longer enjoyed I've left and found something else to do.

Where's the problem ?

Bill x
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:10 am quote
Not to sound like a Luddite but we are going down a road (pun not intended) that I don't want to travel. Our city is spending millions upon millions to have a couple self driving buses run around. This is stupidity at its highest level. There are so many things that need improved around here and they are going to spend it on this? Come on folks. Let's move forward but do so realistically. If you can't "drive" your own car around something is amiss in your life. Do you really have to text, call, WORK, while driving? You'll be much "happier" if you skip doing these things in a car and just "live".... Right now we are being "taught" that many convenience items put on cars are "safety" items.... DRIVE your damn car and you won't need lane departure etc..

Off soapbox. Feel better....

Bob
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:12 am quote
We are humans not machines. Are the pro autonomous going to give us lobotomy's and take away our free will
eeee-bip
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:16 am quote
Biffa
I'm with you Bob.

I'm with you.

Bill x
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:16 am quote
Iím not sure how its going to all work out but for a while, quite a while I would imagine there will be self-driven cars and robot cars on the same road. Personally, I like driving cars, never owned an automatic even raced cars as a hobby but the idea of the daily grind to work over the same congested roads, running to the market for milk is not my of idea driving for pleasure and for me it would be great to have a robot to do those drives for me.
Though, most of the time weather permitting (fair weather rider), I do take the scooter for those routine trips it adds spice to other wise a mundane road experience; that should never be taken away from me.

Last edited by rajron on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:17 am quote
Re: Do
Jet Peddler wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
But the question is why would you want to ?

It wouldn't be driving, it would be sitting.

Bill x
It's not a matter of wanting.

Some busy businesspeople have no choice. It's either multi-task or spend an extra hour or two at the office cheating your wife and kids.

If I was that busy I'd welcome the opportunity to do so. Not much different than taking an Uber or Lyft.
Cheating, so working 12 hour days is cheating now?
I says it doing what you have too to get by.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:21 am quote
johnymoore wrote:
I don't see what problem they solve in congested cities.

I will filter past you suckers sat in your soleless vehicles on my two-wheeled love machine
Then you're not understanding the full advantage of autonomous cars. The lights will know which way traffic is heaviest from and time the lights to accommodate. You won't be sitting at lights that are red for 5 minutes with no cars going through the intersections.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:22 am quote
Ö.and how about those half hours in the car traveling only a couple of miles because of traffic; switch on the robot for me!
eeee-bip
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:31 am quote
Muff
If all the cars are talking to each other won't they all take the same detour ?

Bill x
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:32 am quote
Ok, want about the people that have Classic cars that want to drive them? Mecum Auction just sold over 100 Million Dollars worth of cars in Kissimmee Fl in the past week Highest earning Auction in their history.[/quote]

As long as they continue making gasoline I expect that their will be Classic Car Ralleys. I do not see them going away in my lifetime. I also know in my area when I go to an antique car or tractor show the attendance is not what it used to be. Not many young people seem to have the interest. Even NASCAR has trouble filling seats. Charlotte Motor speedway has changed format to Roval (road and oval) to make it more entertaining. So a generation from now, who knows where this industry will be and what people will be collecting and showing.
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Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:36 am quote
Autonomous cars?
Three words, ďthey scare meĒ!

But then again, so do all the distracted drivers with their cell phones, tablets, newspapers, eating, yelling at their kids in their backseats, etc, etc & etc.....
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