Autonomous Cars N/S/R
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Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2236
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:16 pm quote
Vintage1 wrote:
I wonder what happens to the U.S. auto industry when these vehicles become the norm? It seems like fully half the ads on our TV stations are car ads. We already often hear about how a downturn in the industry can cause a recession.... To whom are they going to market their cars to, a Uber type organization?
They'll probably all look alike and have the same features. No marketing for individual tastes. Everything will look the same to a certain degree. Maybe just differences for luxury and capacity.

I guess the companies will need to diversify into different products like the coach and carriage companies had to do when the automobile came along.
To a degree, that's already happening: Ford, for one, is investing in one of the companies pushing electric push-scooters in major cities (with somewhat mixed results); GM, of course, has a stake in Lyft, and is angling to supply its own "autonomous" fleet to same whenever they get their self-driving act together (which will be a while, IMO). Meanwhile, both companies, along with Fiat Chrysler, are jettisoning their sedan lines at breakneck speed, sticking to SUV/CUV/Pickup* models on account of their traditionally higher profit margins (and, in the case of pickups, more-lax emissions/fuel-economy standards...way to go for the planet, guys). This decade is going to be quite interesting.


(*While I'm ranting here, just one more: Ford just "reintroduced" the "compact/mid-size" Ranger to their pickup line, and making a big deal of it, when in fact, (1) this is a model they've offered other world markets for several years now, and (2) this "smaller" truck is roughly the same size as the early-'aughts F-150 before it got super-sized. It's the 1960s all over again in Dearborn.)

Last edited by amateriat on Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1712
Location: North Jersey
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:08 am quote
Agree with what you say. Cheap U.S. gas prices always fuel the move to larger vehicles. (pun intended). I don't blame the manufacturers, it's the public that aren't buying the cars so what are they to do?
Hooked
2009 GTS 250ie
Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Posts: 454
Location: south Texas
Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:15 am quote
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Real Stupidity. I like driving. We're traveling by motorhome currently. Scoots are along for the ride... and I especially like riding those scoots.

Sadly, I envision a time in the not too distant future where there will be lanes (much like HOV lanes) for autonomous vehicles. Won't be much fun "in the twisties," though.

All that said, my last career was as a boat captain. Autopilot in a boat is much different from cruise-control in a car. It could be programmed for waypoints, making turns at the appropriate places. It frees the person at the helm to check radar and keep a lookout for traffic. AIS (Automatic Information System) keeps you informed on traffic (speed, direction, closing concerns) around you (assuming they also have an AIS send/receive). It is about resource management, not elimination of a thinking person in charge.

I don't think I would be comfortable in a fully autonomous car... currently. Too many stupid people out there, doing things that aren't "logical" - how would a logical computer-driven vehicle keep up with "stupid to the left - stupid to the right"??
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7107
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:25 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
Ok, want about the people that have Classic cars that want to drive them? Mecum Auction just sold over 100 Million Dollars worth of cars in Kissimmee Fl in the past week Highest earning Auction in their history.
Don't think for a minute that those 100 Million dollars of cars are going to be driven any distances. They're going into a garage or pod until their price goes up another 30K.
Lots of them will be driven, once they go over $100,000 the amount of driving is limited or goes away. But lots of cars for under $25,000-$50,000
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 13 Sep 2017
Posts: 788
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:03 am quote
Just chatting with a Coworker about this idea. Vegas will be one of the first places to adopt autonomous vehicles!

Imagine your Venetian hotel package includes the autonomous Carriage picking you up from the airport with your complimentary glass of Champagne. Oh, and you opted for the finger foods snack option.

You walk out of the airport to the designated pick up area and your carriage arrives with an LED Scroll with you name on it. The door opens as you click on your smartphone the code. You walk in, put your luggage down. Enjoy your drink and snacks as the vehicle takes you to the hotel.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:31 pm quote
bosh
I think that someone has just seen the future.

It's got legs.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1852
Location: Finland
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:00 pm quote
I remember following the original Darpa Grand Challenge in the net.
If you'll think about it, this was only 15 years ago... darn the development is fast!

eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:44 am quote
Ask
Would you actually need a drivers licence seeing as you're not actually driving ?

Would Taxi companies go out of business ?

Bill x
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 2085
Location: London
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:59 am quote
The future will likely mean none of us drive, at least in cities. Fuel costs will escalate in time as will all costs involving owning a vehicle. Insurers will see those who hang onto their own vehicles as a liability. Everyone will likely use autonomous electric vehicles in addition to trains etc. Why would people bother passing driving tests? I don't know why I'm talking about this as if it's some far future thing. Here in London you have issues trying to park at both ends of your journey, it's often faster to bicycle plus there's congestion charging if you drive into the city. I offered driving lessons to both my lads as a present but neither were even slightly interested.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:15 pm quote
Pulse
Did you know that the Uber Volvo that killed that pedestrian in Tempe Arizona had its collision avoidance system disabled because it was conflicting with Uber's self drive electronics.

Also the driver was watching The View on her cell phone rather than looking at the road as she was instructed to do.

Not good.

Bill x
Member
2013 Vespa GTS300 IE
Joined: 30 Dec 2017
Posts: 41
Location: Destrehan Louisiana (New Orleans)
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:37 am quote
Anxiously awaiting the delivery of my self driving Tesla Model 3.

I do enjoy being driven around.
Hooked
BV 350
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:20 am quote
Joking, right?
jplanaux wrote:
Anxiously awaiting the delivery of my self driving Tesla Model 3.

I do enjoy being driven around.
The current state of the art with Teslas is not 'self-driving'. If you think so, you may end up dead. There have been a number of Tesla crashes, some deadly, when the driver wasn't paying attention and the system failed to recognize a problem. Unless you were thinking of taking delivery in 5 years or so.

Considering that humans do a fair job of driving with only a small portion of their 'processing power', the brute-force mechanisms being used to develop true self-driving cars are missing something.

As to stupid drivers, a well-developed autonomous system will almost certainly see the problem before a human driver, and take corrective action quicker.

The 'autonomous vehicle lane' will be noteworthy because the vehicles will have very little following distance, start, stop, and accelerate almost as a unit, and as a result move 2 to 3 times as many people as the 'human' driven vehicles. Presumably they will not sit, unmoving, at a green light, as many local humans do, nor fail to stop for red lights.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 2236
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:47 am quote
Re: Joking, right?
Jimding wrote:
The 'autonomous vehicle lane' will be noteworthy because the vehicles will have very little following distance, start, stop, and accelerate almost as a unit, and as a result move 2 to 3 times as many people as the 'human' driven vehicles. Presumably they will not sit, unmoving, at a green light, as many local humans do, nor fail to stop for red lights.
Hmm...dedicated "path" - check. Closely grouped-together cars - check. "Start, stop and accelerate as a unit" - check. Not dawdling at greens nor blowing through reds - checkamundo.

Hold on, kids, I've got this one!

eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:26 am quote
Chunk
If the driver ended up dead though not paying attention how do you know if that when he's not alive to ask ?

Question - Did you crash through not paying attention ?

Answer - Sorry, I can't answer because I'm dead.

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5739
Location: New Zealand
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:09 pm quote
Bill Dog wrote:
If the driver ended up dead though not paying attention how do you know if that when he's not alive to ask?
In one case the Harry Potter DVD was still playing after the crash.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37422
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:15 pm quote
Re: Chunk
Bill Dog wrote:
If the driver ended up dead though not paying attention how do you know if that when he's not alive to ask ?
There was a camera inside the car pointing at him - and another at the scene in front - at the time.

Apparently it's fairly certain that even had he been paying full attention, the collision would have still have happened with fatal results.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:10 am quote
Plant
Just run with the joke Jim.

It's funnier that way.

If you look at the footage, the pedestrian ( homeless person) walks into the path of the car and the footage gives the impression that it's a badly lit piece of road.

Bill x
Hooked
BV 350
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Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:06 am quote
sidenote
Looks like autonomous trains are in the offing as well:

https://fortune.com/2019/07/29/autonomous-trains-challenges/

Was surprised at the split on how much freight goes by truck vs. rail. But the figure was misleading, as trains move mostly low value/weight commodities like coal. Split by weight is closer to 55 truck/45 train.

Maybe if the railroads got their act together, and consumers stepped away from right-now shipping, we could see some drastic reductions in oil consumption and air pollution by returning to more rail shipping. Be nice to reduce congestion (not to mention wear and tear) on our highways as well.
Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 4681
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:48 am quote
Re: Pulse
Bill Dog wrote:
Did you know that the Uber Volvo that killed that pedestrian in Tempe Arizona had its collision avoidance system disabled because it was conflicting with Uber's self drive electronics.

Also the driver was watching The View on her cell phone rather than looking at the road as she was instructed to do.

Not good.

Bill x
I read an article that said that the data logs in the collision avoidance system showed that the pedestrian had been "seen" and identified as an issue in plenty of time for the car to have taken the action to stop. But because the system was disabled, it did not take control of the vehicle. What a shameful situation. The collision avoidance system had been disabled in order to improve ride comfort. They thought it was overly aggressive and would sometimes brake when it wasn't needed leading to a less comfortable ride for customers.

-Craig
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5739
Location: New Zealand
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:54 am quote
Re: Pulse
caschnd1 wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
Did you know that the Uber Volvo that killed that pedestrian in Tempe Arizona had its collision avoidance system disabled because it was conflicting with Uber's self drive electronics.

Also the driver was watching The View on her cell phone rather than looking at the road as she was instructed to do.

Not good.

Bill x
I read an article that said that the data logs in the collision avoidance system showed that the pedestrian had been "seen" and identified as an issue in plenty of time for the car to have taken the action to stop. But because the system was disabled, it did not take control of the vehicle. What a shameful situation. The collision avoidance system had been disabled in order to improve ride comfort. They thought it was overly aggressive and would sometimes brake when it wasn't needed leading to a less comfortable ride for customers.

-Craig
Yep.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/05/emergency-brakes-were-disabled-by-ubers-self-driving-software-ntsb-says/
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
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Location: Nebraska
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:14 am quote
"Autopilot"
A shame that Tesla had the poor judgement to name their system "Autopilot", and users were dumb enough to believe it:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/delray-beach/fl-ne-tesla-autopilot-lawsuit-20190801-zokyrcqxz5cn7jpjeenaoud6iy-story.html

Oh, and the 'Starship", isn't.
Hooked
BV 350
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Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:14 am quote
Another victim
Another driver who believed Tesla's hype:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/tesla-model-3-explodes-after-rear-ending-a-tow-truck-in-russia/

Fire departments are finding e-cars to be challenging when it comes to extinguishing fires. There are reports that some wrecks burst into flames (again) days after the intial fire had been extinguished. And the fumes may be toxic.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:27 am quote
Lunge
Wow that's unpleasant.

What's more flammable ? A tank of gas or a battery ?

Bill X
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1712
Location: North Jersey
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:49 pm quote
Re: Another victim
Jimding wrote:
Another driver who believed Tesla's hype:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/tesla-model-3-explodes-after-rear-ending-a-tow-truck-in-russia/

Fire departments are finding e-cars to be challenging when it comes to extinguishing fires. There are reports that some wrecks burst into flames (again) days after the intial fire had been extinguished. And the fumes may be toxic.
This "latest tragic news" is over 20 years old. It shouldn't be all that challenging to them if they've paid attention and done some actual training over the past two decades. For one thing, Toyota sent out info to every fire department in the U.S. 20 years ago pointing out the new challenges to extinguishing Prius fires and how to stay safe when dealing with the high voltage side of things under the hood.
Hooked
BV 350
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Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:26 am quote
Problem
The problems seems to be the fire rekindling after it is put out. And while it may be old news, the local fire department is just now getting geared up to handle electric car fires. But then, they are far from progressive.
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