Vintage vespa with sidecar
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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
First - thank you to Mrs. Safis for allowing her dining room table to provide you space for my tutorial.
There's no Mrs. SaFiS and that wasn't a dinning table. No worries

I install the primary at an angle but I think the slot that's present on the newer cases is what does the trick...

1.jpg

IMG_1139.JPG

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Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:31 pm quote
Quote:
that wasn't a dinning table.
- I have an old teak table also being abused in my garage. Hahaha.
Ok - here is the assembled final.
Credit where credit is due.
- Safis - the inner bosses of the gog that engage with cruciform are what is critical for spacing - when it comes to shifting smoothness/alignment. That was a breakthrough of understanding. Thanks.
- WhoDat - there is a neutral space (made me think about how to get it in right place). Totally hadn't dawned on me.
- SoCal - DRT tolerances are often very tight - ahh, the circlip interference just needs a little adjustment - Circlip DOES go there - its just a touch too tight on tolerance.
- Jack - 4th indent towards circlip is right (was convinced it was the opposite) and this stopped me fighting it and realize the circlip just needed subtle clean up.

In combo - ended up seeming simple in the end - but clues were invaluable. I was lost. Thanks guys.

Went with ~.2 clearance on feeler gauge after assembly. For spirited driving on strong tourer - what is crowd's favorite clearance target for my build?

Mean time - I decided to take 1.5 MM off end of xmas tree shaft. Hadn't seen Safi's pic & explanation at the time.
So instead of machining that slot - I have just removed a tiny bit off ends of shaft - and voila! Xmas tree is in.
Great detail shot of that slot - getting full education here.
Thanks!

EFL primary and xmas tree are such a tight fit - but really optimize the space. rivets are hitting - so I am flattening them - then cleaning up case by 1mm or so where they will otherwise scrub. Might need to add a .05 brass spacer to elevate primary a hair.

Thanks all!
-CM

IMG_2186.JPG
Ground tabs off circlip so no interference with cog

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This is what a DRT EFL (Lusso) shaft looks like when assembled - if anyone wants to know... gap at center I suspect actually helps gears align with xmas tree. Will now look at overall alignment on shaft to allow best line up with over all xmas tree gear

IMG_2189.JPG
I am flattening these rivets - then I will give slight adjustment to case to create clearance.

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:52 pm quote
That is an expensive looking assembled main shaft. Why all the fancy gear cogs? I might have missed the bit where you decided to do this.

That tree looks like its too far in. Might it need some kind of spacer washer between the tree bearing and the case? If you put the fly side case on see how far you can push the tree shaft into it. If the shaft thread goes flush with the outside, a spacer will be what you need.

btw. Assembling the main shaft before fitting it in is not the best idea. And what is the final shim clearance?
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Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:10 pm quote
Quote:
That is an expensive looking assembled main shaft. Why all the fancy gear cogs?
Depends who you ask.
Answer A: What I told my wife - that's probably not more than $150 of parts I think (thanks Craig).
Answer B: What I told myself - I love the ratios I had before tear down. Just need to adjust 4th shorter and it will be perfect. Hey! I have to replace the drive shaft and 4th gear anyway - why not go Lusso/EFL? Perfect for my side car. What's that? to go Lusso, I need a new xmas tree? Ok - well - its only another $100 right? and it will be so much better. What's that? I need a custom counter shaft? Okay - but what about the bearings. Oh. Need a new one of this too. Well - still it will be awesome - so Im gonna do it. Now - lets just look up the parts and place my order - hell - I will save $100 cause I can pick it up when I am in Germany. Now, about those cogs - lets see - just use this trusty final drive calculator Ginch posted and I can just grab the gears I need from Piaggio or LML. Oh, wait, that EFL Xmas tree has some funky sizes that are MUCH different than my existing cogs. Hmmm - cant use Piaggio or LML. but - here are the ones I need - by this DRT company. Funny name - anyway - what do I care about a name- I'll just throw em in the basket...
(Got to SIP, was checking out, and discovered they were apparently cast on the thighs of those virgin girls I was talking about.)

Bosomy Girl with nice German accent seeing my reaction to bill: Do you vant me to put zem bak?
Me: Uh, well, uh, no - I'll, um, take them. Thank you.
Quote:
That tree looks like its too far in. Might it need some kind of spacer washer between the tree bearing and the case? If you put the fly side case on see how far you can push the tree shaft into it. If the shaft thread goes flush with the outside, a spacer will be what you need.
While you were typing - I was going about basically doing just that. Going to have to play with spacers. See below.
Quote:
btw. Assembling the main shaft before fitting it in is not the best idea. And what is the final shim clearance?
Yes - that was done so I could measure the clearance and play around with the spacers quickly. I then disassembled and built up inside of cases. .2 feeler gauges at top currently. Thoughts?

IMG_2191.JPG
here is the primary with no spacer. Basically sits on the case - and gaps a bit between the top of the primary and the clutch side seal. Probably too low?

IMG_2197.JPG
Here is the primary with a 1.1mm washer - left red arrow. Gear now fits well - but haven't checked fly side case yet for shaft length interference.

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Primary alignment with 4th on drive shaft. What you can't see - Drive shaft circlip is scraping top of primary. Will need to shim drive shaft by same 1MM also?

IMG_2200.JPG
First dry fit. Getting there - but plenty of subtle shimming needed to get everything aligned.

IMG_2205.JPG
Drive shaft. Can I get away with small shim here at shoulder to get rid of interference between drive shaft lower circlip and primary gear spring cover

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:08 pm quote
Ha ha! It's easy to talk yourself into it if you know how! Craig's system is - I have to spend $100 to replace that tool/part/etc. Here's a nicer one than I was going to get, it's $150. So really, only spending $50 (on what I had to anyway). But look, this one is only $200 and has a colorful screen! So really I'm only spending $100! Woo hoo!

On another subject, although not entirely off topic, saw this today and thought of you. Not much info but interesting. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Motorcycle.Camping.Australia/permalink/2520177888218804/
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Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:35 pm quote
Quote:
Not much info but interesting.
Like the stripped down design they have - sporty look achieved with minimalist but rich fairings over tubular frame. Kinda a cool idea.
Will put that one in the memory banks for upcoming leaner project.
Kristian at Bar Italia has some stuff I am talking to him about picking up for the project.

While I await my shims to arrive tomorrow to do a nice fitting for the gearing...

Tuning question: Jack - perhaps you or others want to weigh in.
Opened inlet to roughly to 65 mark on IC side.
I could widen and open the IO side of the inlet a touch to the point that IO with uncut crank opens just as transfers shut - - and get about 175 duration.

Of course, I could open IO more and hit ~185 (124/60) too - but at the cost of about 10 degrees or so of overlap with inlet opening.

What are my trade offs?
Do I end up a bit more touring/torquey low end if I time the IO with the transfer close?
Do I get a bit more high end power with the extra 10 degrees of duration if I open up that IO more?

What say you with experience?!

Tks,
-CM



[/i]
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:10 am quote
Open it to 185. With the smaller 24/24 carb it will help.

The overlap is really no concern. If you imagine how a reed block inlet works, it actually helps to have the inlet and transfers open together.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:14 am quote
Beautiful instructions / photographic explanations, congratulations!
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:52 am quote
Thanks for input.
This caused a chuckle.
Quote:
With the smaller 24/24 carb it will help.
Also - Thanks Attila!
Quote:
Beautiful instructions / photographic explanations, congratulations!
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:22 pm quote
Recap - putting EFL/Cosa transmission in to VBB case.
Who's idea was this anyway?


Assemble/fit/shim/dissaemble/grind/fit/rinse and repeat.

Note last couple pics - looks like I am going to have to turn down the drive shaft bearing journal about .38mm.

Sorely tempted to spin it the drill and hold sand paper to it - but probably a better idea to go visit my machinist...

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Careful look & 1.1mm shim is visible between primary gear bearing and case. Primary spins freely now - no interference top or bottom.

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Lifted primary gear would interfere with drive shaft circlip - so driveshaft is also shimmed

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Here

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Interference here between the shoulder of driveshaft and case - made worse after 1mm shaft lift. ( will likely need to shim the selector box as everything is 1mm closer to it do to shimming).

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This is inside of case view - where that shoulder that interfered was. Here it's been ground and polished (small half moon shaped shoulder below bearing seat shoulder)

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EFL/Lusso drive shaft - note size

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Orig. drive shaft. ever so slightly smaller. Note the quality battery cover innovation

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Thus cage bearing - won't fit on EFL/Lusso shaft. Plan to turn shaft down ever so slightly - can't come up with any other option

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:51 pm quote
This is getting complicated. Stupid question, just to clarify why it isn't an option; Why can't you use the Lusso bearing?
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:37 pm quote
No - actually its a good question.
SoCal threw that one at me as well when I reached out for some local 911.

The Lusso/T5 bearing is listed at 29mm ID.
The VBB stock bearing is listed at 28.18 ID.
That pretty well explains the reason the Lusso shaft won't fit in my VBB bearing ~ matches my measures.

The issue is - that Lusso bearing has a 35mm OD - my case accepts a 42.30 so that's a no go.

Will go talk to my machinest tomorrow and see what he has to say.
Closing in on a solution - provided my "shim the selector" box works to allow me to get the alignment right.

Have to say - less then blown away by quality of shift box. spring retainer with roller are easily bent- roller doesn't really roll. Thinking about some customization to that part as well.

In for a penny...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:48 am quote
It is how it looked but needed to be there for the record. Now, that being the situation and the bearing surface being way more important than the case its in. Your machinist could make a ring. This could be a nice interference fit, 35mm ID - 42.30 OD to take the Lusso bearing and put it in the VBB case. That way the hardened surface on the shaft stays intact.
Might be less work and at least you can sell the Lusso box if the next issue can't be professionally bodged. It ain't over until the kickstart works, clutch works and you have all 4 gears.

Nice find on the shaft spacer. Looks like it was OEM or made for the job.

There was a thread on gear selectors before. New are often worse than old. I use a lot of re-furb kits. Seems to work out the best.
Yours will shim ok. Stud length can be an issue on the bad ones (which yours probably will be). Just saying.
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:30 pm quote
Tuning Q's
Ok - Since the numbers have numbed the crowd to sleep - let's finish beating this thing in to the ground for the 3 people still reading.

Assumptions:
- Current inlet duration is at 175.
- Target 185 (work with me here. that is the number).
- Room to cut crank IO or IC - Dremel user's choice.
- Room to cut inlet back (IO) by 7 degrees, or inlet front by 4 degrees

[b]The challenge - what are the tradeoffs between biasing the opening of the inlet front (IC) or back (IO) or crank (same) if you have the option ?
Quote:
Nice find on the shaft spacer. Looks like it was OEM or made for the job.

There is a company here in US called McMaster Carr. They supply the machine trade - and have some no bullshit stuff. You can check them out online: https://www.mcmaster.com/shims

I grabbed some in 1mm, .5mm, .3mm, and .1mm. They apparently are made in Germany - and are Rockwell B hard as hell (85). Fit on to shafts is precise, as is thickness. Was very pleased. Good eye noticing that one from a pic.

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Nice to have in sizes and thicknesses. They were only $8.00 for about 25 units. One man's bodge is another man's custom build.

IMG_2290.JPG
Room to open up inlet in either direction. No choosing "do both".

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1128
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:40 pm quote
Just placed my first order with McMaster the other day for an aluminum shim sheet set with various thicknesses. Figured they would be good to have for custom gaskets. 6"x24" sheet pack of 10 sheets in different sizes cost $68 with tax and shipping. Expecting that 10 pack to last me forever!

https://www.mcmaster.com/9536K51
Hooked
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:51 am quote
McMastercarr is a great resource! Ordered form them numerous times over the years, for different projects. The are local to me, so I can even pickup if in a rush. Going to be ordering some hardware from them soon.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:55 pm quote
Looks like they have a shim for everything. Its all out there if you know where to look. With a hard shim the hub will stay tight too. Tested the kick start yet?

On a lower revving engine (<7500) the ATDC is not as important as the BTDC. Take as much out of the back of the pad as you can and then take the rest out the front. 185 total duration is still pretty low but better suited to what you are after.
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:59 pm quote
Jack - good stuff.
Thanks.

Spent the day working on fitting cylinder/ roughing in exhaust port before I do final on inlet. Have a little innovation I intend to try on the inlet for improved sealing - we will see...

2 stages of 2 stroke tuning:
1. .01mm? you're kidding right?
2. Holy shit - how do you measure and cut .01mm accurately?

Using everything suggested, feeler gauge for PBT when above cylinder, reading glasses - over regular glasses - looking through a magnifying glass - with a flashlight - to see a super glued piston ring in place to limit cut and help measure - which I placed with a pic tool to ensure I could feel if it was flush with the edge - I cut the exhaust port.

No idea if I have it right - but I measured it and cut it to .01 digits of target. Assume port needs a bit more shaping to optimize - or not. Have a look at new trace and comment if you please.

Swiss - your comment: start from inside the port and push the sanding drum out toward edge - great tip. Worked Well for me. Tks.
Quote:
Tested the kick start yet?
Been wondering about that... on the list.

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wiped cyl wall with mineral spirits. Used piston to press piston ring in to place flat. Used awl to feel for edge between ring and port. Added Few drops of super glue to hold it in place before cutting with sanding wheel for simplicity.

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Grinding set up - Inspired by V oodoo. Step ladder, hand full of clamps, placed at chest height made it easier

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42.90mm measured flat on paper.
Timing now:123.3 /177/26.87

Pretty close to target...

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:11 am quote
Liking the grinding but not liking the width. 42.9mm is still un-impressively small. 47.5mm is the max, so anything 46.0mm and over is going to be acceptable. Nice oval shape. Looks symmetrical too.

Take a photo through the exhaust stub to see how lumpy it is. Shape should also be more wizards sleeve and less trumpet.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:01 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Liking the grinding but not liking the width. 42.9mm is still un-impressively small. 47.5mm is the max, so anything 46.0mm and over is going to be acceptable. Nice oval shape. Looks symmetrical too.

Take a photo through the exhaust stub to see how lumpy it is. Shape should also be more wizards sleeve and less trumpet.
He's a hard man to please! But thank goodness for all you tuning geniuses... One day I may go down this path but my brain hurts trying to keep up with all this. Trying being a way of saying failing.

Is there any 101 Vespa tuning resource? Like written with crayons 101?

Must be an addictive quest you are on. Pretty sure 20-something pages ago I suggested a P-lump in the rump. But that would be too easy and where is the fun in that? That EFL mod is madness. Is that a standard done mod for VBB or are you well off-piste?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:42 am quote
CM, great job! Looks smooth. Comment about starting from inside working out was using grinding bit for me not sanding disc, but if it works well with sanding disc also, then great! 0.01mm holy crap keeping that level across the flat is quit a task. Keep it up!
Jack221 wrote:
Shape should also be more wizards sleeve and less trumpet.
Hahahaha great descriptor. Great enough for a signature! Makes me wonder if you ever step away from your garage to roll dice.
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:49 am quote
Quote:
Shape should also be more wizards sleeve and less trumpet.
I thought my drawing had a certain 1970's female genitalia aesthetic - but I guess I can see a trumpet too.
No idea about wizards sleeves.
Perhaps McMaster Carr sells them.
IDK.

Can anyone decipher wizard vs trumpet for me? Does this mean sharper corner radii?
Quote:
Is there any 101 Vespa tuning resource? Like written with crayons 101?
Once you've done one - it gets so much simpler. I know that from the half dozen times I have assembled and taken this thing apart. You would be excellent at the careful fitting. I should write a 10 steps for touring tuning for dummies. It would only be a page and a half and there would be a max of two sentences with numbers in them.
Quote:
Pretty sure 20-something pages ago I suggested a P-lump in the rump. But that would be too easy and where is the fun in that? That EFL mod is madness. Is that a standard done mod for VBB or are you well off-piste?
Ineed you did.

EFL: Guys have done it on their PX cases - where it is plug and play. I suspect some VBB also? Not sure. Perhaps I will pull out that section - boil down to 10 key steps - and post with parts list - after I make sure I have it properly working...

IMG_2312.jpg
The kids are more in to this look now a'days.

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:21 pm quote


Good luck explaining to mrs.charlieman why you are drawing pictures like this in garage late at night
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:28 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Quote:
Shape should also be more wizards sleeve and less trumpet.
I thought my drawing had a certain 1970's female genitalia aesthetic - but I guess I can see a trumpet too.
No idea about wizards sleeves.
Perhaps McMaster Carr sells them.
IDK.
Was going to post the picture, but might be a bit much for the forum! Very funny though... not sure if this is what Jack was referring to?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeN16xaX0AEryyF.jpg
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:40 pm quote
Quote:
Good luck explaining to mrs.charlieman why you are drawing pictures like this in garage late at night
Doesn't make me a bad person.


Now if someone can just clarify what a Wizzard's v#g@n* looks like - I will get out my grinder and start shaping to get rid of any bagginess.

This thing's gonna scream.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:34 pm quote
ha oh man. I have never heard this slang before and read it too literally until all of your responses had me scratching my head and looking it up! Made me feel like an old man wondering what all those teenagers are talking about with their text acronyms, although I have a sneaking suspicion I might be too young for this one. Also outed myself as a D&D nerd. I might have to rethink my signature!

facepalm-head.jpg

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:06 pm quote
The cool kids with the fast scooters aren't into that look. Definitely looking up a trumpet, and I've seen a few.

Trumpets just get big at the end. Sort of straight until the last half inch then flare out. Wizards' sleeves implies a port which is looser along the whole length......and in this case actually desirable. What you have is more power than not flaring out but we're not here for more, when loads is just a pile of dust away.

The width does seem to stop at about the same point that Swiss did. 62%. Need to get up to at least 46mm. The difference between 62% and 68% is quite a lot more in terms of area, costing nearer 10% in torque. Which is bad by the way.
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:12 pm quote
Ahh - trumpet. Why didn't you say so.
Got it.

Unhappy with width I see.
- don't say it.

I have one of those fancy gages that measures actual cord with.
According to it - the ex. port is 39.6. cord.
(I get 42.9 when traced and laid flat)

Just for fun - what is the cord measure you figure matches 46mm traced and laid flat? Would be nice to measure with fancy tool in place - rather than repeatedly trace and lay flat.

Thanks!
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Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:33 pm quote
Inlet Rejuvenation Procedure
Worked on inlet.
Opened up to give ~185 duration with crank.
But this post is not about numbers...


Using some learnings from some prior sloppiness with Honda Bond - where it lasted 1000 miles unscathed in my crankcase - I wondered if it could perform a job similar to a crank seal.

But Charlieman you say - Honda Bond is no where near as tough as Viton.
Well - for abrasion - I am sure that's true - but have you tried to sand that stuff before when well bonded to your case?

So with this in mind - and some ragged edges on my inlet left by the prior builder, I thought I would experiment a little and see how it works.

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The before - note one edge is less then 1mm in areas - though it ran strong previously.

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scattered smothered and covered. Surfaces taped or greased that I want to keep clear

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Shoved old crank in (greased) to form net shape between web and pad. Hat tip to Jack on that one. Very nice.

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Chose slow cure for this one. Higher temp and PSI ratings

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Pad nice and smooth now

Chamfer crank inlet seal.jpg
Rejuvenation concept. Use Honda Bond or the like to seal crank from sides and on chamfer - creating a ~ 0 tolerance gap. Red is bonding material that forms a gasket

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Swabbed surfaces I didn't want to bond to. Note: size of inlet is now large enough to drive a (Tonka) truck through.

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Installed crank and ran bead of the sealant along top edge of pad - making sure to go past corners. Then put case halves together - NO GASKET so it would give my shape and ensure dried sealant wouldn't keep cases from closing later.

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 12.11.01 PM.png
Final: Hard to see but this is looking in to closed cases where crank contacts pad. Blow up to right shows how sealant fills gap at crank chamfer and sits on side of crank. Crank turns easily with little/no resistance.

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:49 pm quote
Nothing gets out of California without a facelift. Certainly got the wrinkles out of that pad. Looking good actually. Not sure the sealer on the side is needed but if it doesn't like it it will chew it up and spit it out.

Be sure there is some clearance between the crank and the pad. It all changes size in a non linear fashion as it gets warm. 0.1mm should do it.

Inlet looks the right size and shape. Has every chance of going well once you fix your lumpy trumpet.
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1825

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:53 pm quote
Here’s a pic of my pink trumpet...

CA04FD12-A2D2-41D9-98DA-0FC3D48D9B0E.jpeg

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Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:16 pm quote
Quote:
Here’s a pic of my pink trumpet..
Ha! I braced before scrolling down to see what pic you might have posted.
Turned out to be some fairly serious pornography.
Quote:
Be sure there is some clearance between the crank and the pad. It all changes size in a non linear fashion as it gets warm. 0.1mm should do
That is a legit head's up. Tks.

Chuckle - I am going to be the first person to ever seize a motor with the inlet to crank interference due to overheating/swelling - but on a positive note - I will be able to pressure test without removing the carb.

Need some help on this one - sort out the kickstarter gear.
VBB was 22mm ID. Lusso/PX is 20MM. So have to use PX kick start gear as it has the right ID for the top of the counter shaft.

How I get from there to the kick start lever is anyone's guess.
Since I have the PX kick start cog - do I need the PX kick start spring?
What about the kick starter shaft and half cog? PX or VBB?

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 11.00.45 PM.png
Assume I need this one to fit the PX starter cog

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VBB model looks like the PX - but different part numbers.

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 11.07.26 PM.png
Suppose I should have a spring?

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 11.09.47 PM.png
Has to be this gear - ID fits my new elf xmas tree and is set up to match 12 cog on xmas gear stack - VBB one has larger ID and an extra tooth. No go.

Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 689
Location: california
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:06 pm quote
Spent some time fitting, and refitting, until cogs, shafts, and gears all aligned very nicely.

Decided my approach on bearings / order of assembly would be:
- Clutch side bearing in case flush.
- Put fly side bearing on crank
- Pull crank in to bearing on large half of case - to ensure best fit between crank web and inlet pad.
- Heat small case half. Flash freeze fly side bearing (already on crank). Put small side case half on - bolts and torque.

Below is a picture of the results...
Seems - how can I say it - not quite right...

The good news.
This method aligns crank exactly where I want it on inlet pad.
The bad news - my fly side bearing is poking out 2.5mm.

1f937-2642.png

IMG_2382 2.JPG
fly side bearing exposed about 2.5mm sticking out of case - can be seen between crank web and top small half case

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:24 pm quote
Its all progress. Might not matter but doesn't look good.

Does the kickstart work? All EFL parts?

Clutch not rubbing on the primary too?
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 689
Location: california
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:26 pm quote
Gear box is extra smooth.
1mm shim on kick start aligned gear perfectly - disengages nicely at rest.
Primary aligners nicely with clutch.
Not a hair of scrape anywhere.
Happy with fit - which I should be - after half dozen dry fits..
EFL portion all set.

But that gap between crank web and small half case seems kinda large.
Leaves bearing poking out of case.
I could press the bearing in to the case - but then there will be large gap between bearing and crank.

Is that normal?
Case halves are stock fit together.
Expected the crank to be close to net fit between both halves.
Kinda miffed.

IMG_2382.JPG

IMG_2381.JPG
Just prior to close

Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 630
Location: California
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 pm quote
charlieman think I had some bearing exposure as yours does how does the fly seal land?
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 689
Location: california
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:41 pm quote
Thanks Hibbert.

Fly side seal was put in first - and nicely bottomed out into case with loc-tight to help ensure good seal.
There is now a gap between bearing and seal - as bearing is not fully seated in case.

Old crank appears to be about .5mm wider over all - but would not have made up for all this gap.
Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 630
Location: California
Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:04 pm quote
is the seal riding on the proper sealing surface of the crank? Does the crank rotate smooth?
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 475
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:25 am quote
Wizard’s sleeve a.k.a. Clown’s pocket.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4887
Location: So Cal
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:37 am quote
What’s the part no. of the bearings?
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