Vintage vespa with sidecar
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Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:15 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Welp...other than going with K61's instead of K80's, I just pulled the trigger, so we can compare notes on the ride once they show up.
Did you get a 110 or 120 width, says a 120 would fit?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:57 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Welp...other than going with K61's instead of K80's, I just pulled the trigger, so we can compare notes on the ride once they show up.
Get a weight on these before mounting, curious what these weigh compared to stock steel wheels and tires.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2903
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:12 pm quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Welp...other than going with K61's instead of K80's, I just pulled the trigger, so we can compare notes on the ride once they show up.
Get a weight on these before mounting, curious what these weigh compared to stock steel wheels and tires.
Will do. It's been a few years since I got flamed on MV for posting about comparative wheel and tire weights.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8014
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:34 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Will do. It's been a few years since I got flamed on MV for posting about comparative wheel and tire weights.
I feel we've grown as a community since those days...

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2795

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:43 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Welp...other than going with K61's instead of K80's, I just pulled the trigger, so we can compare notes on the ride once they show up.
Get a weight on these before mounting, curious what these weigh compared to stock steel wheels and tires.
Will do. It's been a few years since I got flamed on MV for posting about comparative wheel and tire weights.
I remember when other were going a bit off on you for that posting Chandler. The thing is, tire and wheel weight are absolutely critical when it comes to performance competative motorsports. Lots of scooterists will just scoff about the extra weight from tire/wheel weigh combos on our putt putts, but with tuned up cylinders as well as hi-po hydro brake systems, going with lighter weight rotational mass on the wheels is only logical next step. And because of that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having "trickle down" racing technology showing up on our every day road going scooters. We as scooterists are always looking for that ONE extra MPH, little things like lighter weight tires/wheels can give us that!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:43 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
Welp...other than going with K61's instead of K80's, I just pulled the trigger, so we can compare notes on the ride once they show up.
Get a weight on these before mounting, curious what these weigh compared to stock steel wheels and tires.
Will do. It's been a few years since I got flamed on MV for posting about comparative wheel and tire weights.
I'm really curious if using the 11" wheel and tire combo are a weight gain, loss or negligible difference. I'm guessing with no split rim hardware or tubes it'll be lighter than factory.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:31 pm quote
I am knee deep on a home welding project that rivals my leaning side car rig ... trust me.

Love this convo tho.

I can do a weigh test - tho we need to tack on a bit cause my 10s are worn down.

Chandlerman: (feels good to use your full name - like family) I (thankfully) missed the dress down from the old days - but Iím game to give this a whirl.

I intentionally avoided putting the big ballon affect tires on - tho I hadnít considered weight - I was hell bent on not having to cut my old cases.

Iím also psyched to balance these as I suspect I will get some nice smoothing at speed.

Will grab the scale and see what I get for weight comparison when I pull the wheels for balancing.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2795

Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:42 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
I am knee deep on a home welding project that rivals my leaning side car rig ... trust me.
You welding up a seismic proof reverse oscillation tilting hot water heater? Just how close do you live to the San Andreas fault anyhow?
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1557
Location: UK (South East)
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:43 am quote
My opinion, having used a SIP 11" rim (3" wide) and a K61 120/70-11 tyre on the rear of my MHR 221 scoot. Firstly, the swing arm had been damaged by the previous owner, so shifting the motor to the right by 1cm was mandatory for me. This lead to a wide wheel conversion using the afore mentioned combo.

It does look great, no doubt about it. Is it a harsher ride? Not that I have noticed. It feels very stable and planted that's for sure. Does it weigh any more/much more than a 3.50-10 on a stock rim? No idea, and as I'm not in the habit of racing my scoots competitively, it never crossed my mind. The gearing was carefully considered, as I had built the motor with a 68T primary, and gearing was the main reason I didn't go to the 130/70-11. I can choose from 20T to 23T clutch, so plenty of fine tuning is possible.

Disadvantages:
- it's a PITA to get on and off the rear of the scoot
- carrying a similarly sized spare isn't an option

[Edit] I also find that a 10" front with a 100/90 K61 is a good match for an 11" rear with the 120/70 K61. The scoot sits nice and level, as the 90 tyre profile at the front kind of offsets the bigger rim diameter at the back

rear tyre.jpg

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2903
Location: Nashville
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:11 am quote
I compared the Pinasco split tubeless to stock steel rims. The weight difference was significant.

From my thread on the topic
chandlerman wrote:
stock wheels+tires are about 15 lbs each, so 7 lbs per tire, total of 14 lbs less rolling weight.
Once the new tires and rims show up from SIP, I'll add those measures to the thread
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:18 am quote
I'd love to have a set of Pinasco Split tubeless rims. I don't want to cough up the cash for them though. Maybe next year.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Indo
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am quote
Or best u can made ur own rims just need to find donor steel rims that have 5 bar like mine

IMG-20201124-WA0020.jpg
The front use a 110-70 tyre and in the back its a 120-70

Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2338
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss - I had two things in kind:
1. I wanted to decrease my side wall. My scoot with sidecar has more lateral forces than most. I thought it might be more controlled.
It is.
2. I liked the idea of a taller wheel AND tire for highway/ faster speeds.

My only comment to the gang is - 70s are harsher than 80s sidewalls.
So consider the trade offs between the two as 80s would make u a little taller but only slightly more than 3.5x10s.

As for clearances - it is certainly tight getting past the front mud guard - and rear changes mean shock bolt removal.

But I had that with the 3.5x10s as well so nothing new.

Really love these when I am driving it hard.

Letís see how CM1 feels about his after he has em on
This topic something that has always confused me. What is the difference between 130/70 tire and a 110/80 tire when both are 10"? Is a 130/70 tire wider and shorter (flatter road contacting surface) than a 110/80 which would be narrower and higher (pointier smaller road contacting surface)? And how do they relate to 3.5-10" tire size? I've read descriptions of the differences and it just doesn't click in my head.

I currently have 3.5-10" crappy sip performer TL tires on my stella. And I just ordered K62 130/70 tires to replace them.

I also ordered more sip tubeless rims for my p200 and just noticed the new rims I got are 2.50-10". The ones on my stella are 2.10-10". So much chaos and inconsistencies in my tire/rim purchases cause of my inability to understand the differences!

Did I make a mistake in my purchasing sizes?
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1557
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:23 am quote
AFAIK: Taking my 120/70-11 as an example, the width is 120mm and the 70 is the profile (height of side wall), expressed as a percentage of the width (the 120). This for an 11" rim size.

A 3.50-10 is 3.5" (square??) for a 10" rim. I always thought this was equivalent to 90/90 metric, but others say 100/90 is closer. In my experience, a 100/90 has a greater circumference and delivers a 5% gearing increase over the 3.50-10
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2338
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:48 am quote
swa45 wrote:
AFAIK: Taking my 120/70-11 as an example, the width is 120mm and the 70 is the profile (height of side wall), expressed as a percentage of the width (the 120). This for an 11" rim size.

A 3.50-10 is 3.5" (square??) for a 10" rim. I always thought this was equivalent to 90/90 metric, but others say 100/90 is closer. In my experience, a 100/90 has a greater circumference and delivers a 5% gearing increase over the 3.50-10
ok I think that lines up with how I described it. I'm still confused on how they fit on corresponding rims.

The SIP tubeless 2.1-10" rim says: "The rim allows fitting tires from 3.00 up to 3.50-10."

The SIP tubeless 2.5-10" rim says: "Perfect size for 100`80 and 100`90 tires. The rim allows fitting tires from 3.00/ 3.50 up to 100/90-10."

Does this mean my 2.5-10" rim won't fit the 130/70 tire?

And at what point does one need to modify the engine mount to fit/center the tire? I see the wide tire everyone seems to use is a sip 3.0-10" rim. So I am guessing the 2.5-10" rim should fit with no modification. SIP does say it has a slight offset from the 2.1-10" rim, but if used both front and rear 2.5-10 rim there is no noticeable difference. I am using both front and rear 2.5-10" rims. I guess I'll have to install them to confirm if the 130/70 tire fits without rubbing shocks or anything width wise (as long as it is safely useable on that rim).
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1557
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:22 am quote
I think a 2.50 inch rim _may_ just about accommodate a 130/70, but the 100 and 110 widths are a better match. The 3.00 inch rim is best for the big 120 and 130 width tyres. My 2.50" SIP rims are standard fit (with small offset), but the 3.00" rim at the back of scoot in the photo required the swingarm mod and special motor mounts to shift the motor 1cm to the right.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2338
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:52 am quote
Well swa, I'll report back when I get them to let you know if they work or not. This will be another data point in the ongoing discussion of alternative tire/rim sizes and widths. I assume they at least do fit on the rims.. whether they hold up under usage or what not is another story.. cause I paid for the SIP tire mounting service and they did it and shipped them without contacting me to say they were mismatched. Unless they literally don't care and just do the work paid for with the product purchased with no regard for their own knowledge of if stuff fits or not. I'll trust they work until I see otherwise.

Sorry for derailing your thread a bit CM!
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