Vintage vespa with sidecar
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Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1448
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:46 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Bet with some o-tuning that sod cutter could haul ass
Open up the exhaust with a straight pipe and the air filter, then reject for improved flow?
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:16 pm quote
Quote:
Bet with some o-tuning that sod cutter could haul ass
Hahaha.

It was rented (and an aerator) but the first thing I did was disassemble and sharpen all the plug tines. Thing was carving everything it hit.

Working in my secret lab.
There is some stainless steel, a tig welder, and a band saw involved.
More to follow.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:08 pm quote
Ok. Ok. I know what you're thinking.
Charlie man - where have you been?!
We missed you!

Well- perhaps I am half right...

And, I hear you:
What have you been doing?
Did you buy a 2002 or a 510?
Did you stop loving vespas?
Have you fallen in love?

To this, I want to say, man, you ask a lot of questions.
But in fairness, I have been somewhat absent.
So allow me to fill in the blanks.

A month ago, I sent the Allstate to be cremated - I mean sand blasted.
I heard mixed reviews on blasting - but I just couldn't face the rust.
While it was out - I received my fancy new exhaust system from Germany for the Orange Unicorn.
A stainless steel expanse of cake slice pieces assembled together like a snake with colorful welds.

Now at this point - you would think - Bob's your uncle!
New exhaust - new curvy Allstate project - awesome!
But then Swiss went and posted that damn show off your garage thread - and the bottom fell out.

The Orange unicorn has been suffering a clutch side oil leak.
Is there anything more miserable then working on a cooked gear dope soaked set of cases?
And I looked around at my garage - with boxes stacked on boxes, bikes stacked on bikes, racks stacked on bikes stacked on boxes - and I had to call a time out.

Instead of working on the scoot(s), I took everything out of my garage - and threw it in the driveway. I mean - everything.
I listed stuff on craigslist, I got new shelves, I threw stuff away - and sent stuff away. And I sorted through every box and reorganized the whole damn mess.
Neighbors - walked by tisking and tusking at the rats nest of stuff strewn about - though their eyes betrayed the longing desire hidden under their masks to do the same (I told myself).

And to keep myself entertained - I set up a welding station where I could practice my tig welding - as I worked.
Sort some boxes - take a break and weld some stuff together....
Rinse. Repeat.

And then today - with garage at 90% finished - for the first time in about 8 weeks - I worked in my mostly clean garage - on fixing that oil leak. I had space, I knew where my tools were, and even though it was a thankless job - I pulled the scoot apart and cleaned off 3mm of dirt and gear dope.
It was kinda a joy.

I also started fabricating a new intake manifold. Don't ask why - you have already asked enough questions - just look at the pictures and enjoy.

-CM

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It starts here - two pieces of thin walled stainless tubing (ugly practice in background)

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Tacked and ready to weld

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welded up - gives it a 40 incline and moves carb super close to inlet. As close to a downdraft as I can make it.

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Carefully drilled

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Base plate scribed and ready

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rough cut and fit. Need to weld intake to base. Will tack and dry fit with carb to ensure I clear cylinder. Seems promising. Note the 10 bend in toward the chassis - so the carb points slightly inward when mounted.

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:09 am quote
That's outstanding work, CM2!

My dad used to clean up his workspace prior to starting any project. He was a big radio controlled plane guy, both an amazing builder and pilot, and I never quite understood it at the time--I was always too impatient to get the project going.

It's amazing how much crap we accumulate in interstitial spaces, though, all of it having purpose for having been put there at the time, and garages are the worst for that, I think.

I still marvel at the volume of stuff we got rid of in my move from Chicago to Nashville. My best guesstimate is that it was a little over 30 cubic yards of "stuff." And we still got rid of a bunch more after we got here. And could still get rid of more even now, but it's been jammed in a basement where it can be safely ignored until the next move.

What kind of welder do you have?

I'm getting very close to jumping on that particular bandwagon, arguably should already be on it for the GL floorboards, but there's a part of me that's still just too impatient to get the project going.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:15 am quote
Thanks CM.
The part is welded with TIG, and done with the autogenous method - which means you don't add filler rod and just melt the two parts together.
To use that method - your parts have to fit up super tight - so I took care to get it just right. Any gap and you will blow through.
I chose that because - well - I didnt have any stainless filler rod...

Anyhow:

Knowing what I now now - this is what I would say.
1. Start with a MIG machine.
2. Make sure it can run .23 wire - this will be helpful for thin sheet metal. .30 wire is good for just about everything else.
3. Skip flux core. I bought and used that - but its a mess of splatter. Pony up for a bottle of gas - you won't be sorry. Once you own the tank - gas is not very expensive.
4. Choose any of the starter machines. 110V is more than enough for sheet metal. 140 amps will let you weld the sidecar frame of your dreams.
5A. Get one that you can adjust the wire feed AND the heat with a restate - not a "tap" if you can avoid it. The Tap type have no fine adjustment, just click from setting to setting. IF you figure out how to weld - you will want fine adjustment. Miller/Hobart/Lincoln. But - check out prime weld. I bought their TIG - great price - really nice features - and killer customer support including welding tips. Not sure about their MIG. Maybe do a little online research on that.
5B. The big box stores sell the tap type adjustment. Steer clear. The welding stores sell basically the same model with restate type adjustment.
5C. Get a good auto dark helmet. Some have a grinder button.
6. Watch Weldingtipsandtricks.com. Jody. He is the best teacher on the internets.

How to weld stuff:

7. The sound you are looking for when you get it right with a MIG is like frying bacon. Wish someone had told me. Experiment with too much wire feed and too little and get used to that sound on some metal coupons from weldmetalsonline.com (super inexpensive for what you get - great for practice). Then when you have it set wrong - you will recognize the sound and adjust.
8. Short stick out of your wire. Get that welding head right down on top of your work - 3/8" away - and make bacon fry.
9. Clean your metal to shinny before you start. Flap disc. Then acetone. Then clean it again. I can't stress this enough. Clean metal welds so much nicer. Keep in mind - stuff on the back of the metal also pulls through - so paint and dirt have to be cleaned off that too if you want nice welds.
10. Gaps = burn through. use a piece of copper or brass bar to push down on your sheet metal so that the gap goes away before you weld - you will be stunned at the improved results.
11. When you weld thick and thin materials together - start your weld on the thick - and weave the wet puddle on to the thin - then back to the thick.

Above pretty much covers everything I know.
🙂
-CM

IMG_9688.jpg
This is TIG welded. Mild steel - I made a chin up bar for my office - long way from perfect - but not so bad. Figured it would be a good warm up to internal frame for Allstate - hey - I am going to hang from it!

Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4698
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:42 pm quote
Pretty work man!!!

How about some before and after pics of the garage?

(Or ...should we check the garage thread?)
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:16 pm quote
That's about as short as a side draft manifold can be. Welding looking good enough to sell them.
Be sure to do a before and after acceleration test when it's ready for fitting. Important to keep on the science.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:34 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Pretty work man!!!

How about some before and after pics of the garage?

(Or ...should we check the garage thread?)
Thanks!
Garage: Pope/Catholic. Bear/Woods.
There is a whole damn movie.
Coming soon.
🙂
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8058
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:42 pm quote
Been... distracted myself. But good to see you back.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:40 pm quote
Quote:
Been... distracted myself. But good to see you back.
Indeed.
And good to be back.
Quote:
That's about as short as a side draft manifold can be.
Might still be able to cheat a few mm off.
Carb has been happy enough at 40+/- so that's my target.
Challenge is the front carb stud - have to be able to get a nut between the intake tube and the stud.
Rubber from connector also "fouls" that same stud if too close.
Could try some snaking - but the entire thing is only about 35MM long so more like a grub worm than a snake.
Will take a final look and shave any length I can.

Welding - has a ways to go - can still be catastrophic - but Im having my moments.

Oh - and Bridsnest - here is a little primer.
This my friend is my Dremel drawer.
what's that you say? A Dremel drawer?
Yes - one glorious drawer - with all my awls (see what I did there?).
Cant begin to explain the joy of not buying some accoutrement only to find weeks later I have already bought it.
Three times...

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The Dremel drawer. 20% additional oxygen taken in - every time I open it.

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:59 am quote
That was super-helpful, CM, especially https://Weldingtipsandtricks.com. That looks like a lot of what I need to get going, plus I found that the Nashville Makerspace is only a couple miles from me and offers beginning welding periodically, so between those two options, I'm probably set until I know enough to ask better questions.

Last edited by chandlerman on Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4698
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:37 am quote


That is awl inspiring stuff.
Can't wait to see more.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:44 am quote
That Dremel drawer is GLORIOUS! I took in more oxygen just looking at it! Dang, I'm getting inspired.

Gotta get B-62 and Rocket back on the road first, then......the bomb goes off on the garage.....
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:55 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:

That is awl inspiring stuff.
Can't wait to see more.
Chuckle. Indeed.
Quote:
That Dremel drawer is GLORIOUS!
Ha - hope to provide a bit of inspiration.
More to come...

Been working on the intake.
Carefully fit and managed to take another 5mm off it.
Pic below of carb nestled.
Then went to weld it up - just had it tacked.
Unfortunately - ran out of luck - and talent.
Scorched a hole right through it.
Overheated the part as well.

Pictures of the good bad and ugly below - its a process...

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lil space left - so back to the bandsaw

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Tacked it on to a tube so I could get it square - then put on bandsaw

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Properly tight fit

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Oh so nestled

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gratuitous second angle - need to stop cleaning my garage and start cleaning my scoot!

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welding job from hell. all sorts of overheated mess. hole burned through under tight fit. tomorrow is another day

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