Jetting and timing a DR177 with Vespatronic
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Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:39 am quote
I bought my bodge 18 months ago. Went in with my eyes open - knew it would need work to make it safe and make it go, but it was going cheap enough to be worth the risk.

Did a few thousand k's on the motor as it came - only engine upgrade was to add vespatronic and sort out the bodge that held the carb only held on by one stud (!).

Its been jumping out of gear, so it was time for a new shifting cross. That was an excuse to do a proper rebuild.

I found some boggyness, and fixed it methodically, now it's rebuilt to a standard, not a price.

Didn't quite finish it before I headed off on vacation, but I'll be back home on friday, and need to kick it over and get it going again.

Build spec on the new motor (Its a 3 port late super, new seals and bearings):

Vespatronic (1.6 with a lightweight alloy fan CNC'd to fit)
DR177
Sprint gearset
23/64 Malossi Primary
Series Pro Flowed/balanced Conrod, valve timing: 138į/6į post TDC
Malosi Clutch rebuild kit
Sip Road 2
Dellorto 24/24 (rebuilt)
Pollini Venturi for 24/24
DRT Airbox cover spacer

Still need to blue the casing and open it out for the 24/24 .

Before the rebuild I was running a Spaco 20.20d jetted with a 28-120, a 60 choke and a 160/E3/92- also have a pollini Venturi for it if its a better bet, will sell it if not. Timing on the vespatronic was currently at 21 BTDC at 1000 rpm (this was with the bodgriginal asian stainless steel hotdog style exhaust.

I'm also fitting a SIP speedo with CHT. I've trimmed back a fin on the DR head, and drilled and tapped it to take the sensor directly.

I'm a 2 stroke neophyte, so I'm looking for advice. I'm thinking of going with an initial settings for the new motor of:

4% pre mix to run in
23 degrees BTDC at 1800rpm
130 main .

Ive got jets kit from 105-140, figured start fat and work back. Also have a BE4 and BE5

I'd genuinely like advice if theres something better I should be trying.

Thanks

Craig

Last edited by Gt6MK3 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:38 pm quote
First... 4% mix is running lean. So if you really want to do that then you need to up your main jet to be far richer to compensate.
2% for running in and normal running is plenty, and all the jetting advice you'll get is based on the assumption that's what you're using.

130 will be too rich for the DR. I'd think 125 is much closer to where you'll end up. That's with the stock (drilled) filter... if you fit the venturi it'll need to be perhaps 10 to 15 points higher.

Are you in a local club?
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 647

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:29 pm quote
Have you done any whittling to the DR barrel? You might be overestimating itís potential based on choice of a 4% mixture, 24/24 carb and Polini vortex thingy.

Full disclosure, I donít really like jetting and I approach it with distain and impatience. You mention you had a Polini cylinder? Put that on and dial it in... itíll be more rewarding. I love my DR / SIP Road because it was a low fuss solution to a mostly stock scooter.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3793
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:12 am quote
Is that the motor you have or are planning to have?
Sounds like a similar setup to AnaKey... My racer.

What porting, mods, compression have you also done?
Where abouts in Melb are you? I'm in Murrumbeena.

Once you get it up an running... Wanna go for a ride? Or better still... Let's see how fast it is compared to wee Speedy, my 2-port VBC on 8"
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:58 am quote
Ginch

Thanks, So absolutely stick to 2%. 125 without the pollini, 135-140 with. Yep, I'm member of VCOM, but I work almost every weekend (and my experience is that a bodge will be a bodge in their eyes no matter what work is done to it)

S.E.B.

Thats the built motor sitting on a bench waiting for a delivery from SIP for a few nuts and bolts. I'm just over in Camberwell. I'd love to go for a ride when it's running, but I'm not looking to build a racer. I'm not like most teenagers, I'm in my 50's, so I'm just trying to make my bike work well.

I'm just trying to build my "bodge" into a reliable bike I can be happy to ride any day of the week. I love to buy either of you blokes a beer and get your advice.

P.D.S.

I'm not looking to jet it to be a jet, just a reliable everyday scoot but to a standard, not a price. I meant to say I still have a 20/20, and a Pollini venturi for it to. All I've done to the DR barrel is to clean up the port sharpness .


Again, I'm not trying to build a racer, just a good reliable sprightly bike rebuilt to a standard, not a price, and I'm trying to find advice on jetting it for that.

Craig
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3793
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:16 am quote
Derek from ScooterLabs does a weekly order from SIP, so has nice quick delivery, & at a decent price.

Pretty sure I used a 140 with the Polini Venturi.

Yip, a bodge is a bodge... But PHOTOS are always helpful for those playi overseas.

50's huh... That's a good age to have a racer!

Weekday evenings are ok with me, hey, it's light till 21:00 at least, so lots of time

Look forward to seeing it run
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4750
Location: So Cal
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:59 am quote
I agree with Ginch, stick with 2%.

FWIW, I'm currently running a 24/24 carb on my Polini 177 with a BGM pipe. Jets are 38/120 idle, 160/BE3/118 main. It's dialed in pretty tight. Good luck.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:10 pm quote
Always up for a ride!
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:51 am quote
Thanks Gents, always appreciate learning from the experience of others. That gives me a great start point for the carb.

Any thoughts on the Vespatronic?

Have met Derek - He helped me out with a clutch side seal two days before Christmas, legend.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:04 am quote
Vespatronic is good stuff. 1.6kg is a good comprimise between light and heavy. The only issue with them (and it's minor) is that they produce very little power at idle, so lights might be dimmer than a stock setup at traffic lights.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:30 am quote
Yep, I certainly discovered that it provides a wonderful, flickery, 60's era effect at idle when stopped at the lights, and until about 2500 revs...

Have had it running on the old engine, but then it was set at 21 BTDC at 1000 rpm.

Thinking of pushing it to 23 degrees BTDC at 1800rpm, based on the attached file

Any thoughts folks?

vtron.JPG
Vespatronic curves.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:30 pm quote
I can't quite follow the chart... the most important thing about timing is that it be safe when you are at peak power and/or wot. At those revs it needs to be somewhere in the region of 17 - 18 degrees btdc. So I would start there and work backwards.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:00 am quote
Bugga
Here's a tip...

This
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spacer+cover+carburettor_25070140

and this

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/air+intake+system+polini+ve_20301520

Wont both fit in a sprint/super airbox...

Bugga!
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 647

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:30 pm quote
Does anybody think heís wasting his time sticking these carb accessories on a DR?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:53 pm quote
PureDrivenSnow wrote:
Does anybody think heís wasting his time sticking these carb accessories on a DR?
Possibly. But it's always good to find out for yourself. Besides, when the DR is swapped for something with a bit of power the bits might come in handy.
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 647

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:32 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
PureDrivenSnow wrote:
Does anybody think heís wasting his time sticking these carb accessories on a DR?
Possibly. But it's always good to find out for yourself. Besides, when the DR is swapped for something with a bit of power the bits might come in handy.
Donít throw the fancy carb bits in the river but I wouldnít go to the trouble of jetting them on a DR.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:48 am quote
Post startup update.

First - fitting the Sip Road 2 was a bitch. I couldn't get it to go on fully until I found an unground weld inside the throat the base of the expansion slot. Until I ground that back, it wouldn't go on fully, and leaked like a sieve.

Second - working on a bodge comes with its own special moments. Like when the inner tube of the gear change holder in the headset (the bit that holds the 2 cable ends), pops into two. Especially annoying when you've loaned your TIG welder to a mate who lives 40 minutes east, and you MIG to one who lives 40 minutes west.

So in the non 40 degrees C moments we've had here recently, I finally got her started. Actually I did it on a day that was 42c in the shade.

With the 135 jet in the 24/24, my neighbour came over 10 minutes after I'd let it run for 30 seconds to see if the house was on fire.

There was plenty of smoke (and the exhaust was leaky still.

With a 125 in its place, Still a heap of smoke, and fully winding in the mixture screw changed nothing.

With a 115, same result. But this was when I figured out that the Site 2 exhaust throat needed grinding. Finally it fits, and with a slathering of exhaust goop and 2 springs, it's leak free.

With a 110, still a fair bit of smoke. But I feel like the mixture screw is starting do something. Given thats it's a fresh rebuild, and a brand new exhaust, I let it sit for 20 minutes idling at 1700rmp to put some heat through th but, and set the exhaust goop.

Still a little more smoke than I'd like, and I'm starting to worry about the possibility of the couch side seal being corrupted. But the smoke smells two strokey. To be sure I pull the carb box, and take off the clutch breather. Covering it with the 110 in doesn't make a noticeable difference to the idle, and I can't feel noticeable suction even at 3500 rpm. Hopefully the seal is ok.

So, 105 into the carb, and it sounds noticeably different, and needs a bit of winding out on the mixture to sound ok. Smoke is now down to a "normalise" cold 2 stroke amount.

I'll try a 108 in the morning.

(Also need to run a new gear cable and get it shifting properly)

Fun game this...

Craig
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3793
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:59 pm quote
NO to the 108, it will seize!

Sounds like you have oil/petrol mix wrong... how much oil & how much petrol did you use in the mix?
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 647

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:38 am quote
You need to assemble the exhaust with an RTV sealant on the joint.

Did you check if your gearbox oil smells like gas?

Try to describe your whole carb set up and all the jets being used to get better jetting feedback.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4750
Location: So Cal
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:23 am quote
I agree with PDS. Changing main jets isn't going to do much for the idle. What's your idle jet?
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:22 am quote
Cheers Guys.

Sometimes you get too close to the problem, and don't think straight about the solution. I decided to take a couple of days away from the bike. Came back and read your thoughts. Thanks.

Carb is a 24/24e, with a 55/160 idle, and a 160/E3.

Went out tonight and put a 132 main in, wound the mix to 1.5 out, and started up.

Wound the idle up to 2500, and wound in the mixture. Definite change, and the sweet spot was at about 1 and 1/4 turns out.

For yucks, then I put in the 38/120 from my 20/20. Wouldn't start till about 3.5 turns out, and was boggy and nasty when I took it out further.

Went back to the 55/160. At 1 and 1/4 turns, it start, revs, and sat at idle for 20 minutes. CHT on the SIP speedo with the sensor embedded in the head beside the plug was 90c.

The smoke is nothing like it was at the start. It hazes on idle, but is a visible stream on revving. I'd like to think it was mostly from the new exhaust cooking out, but there's still a little more than I'm happy with. The idle is smoothish, but not perfectly steady. Going to dump the oil tomorrow and have a sniff. Pretty sure I'm going to have to pull and split the engine again and have a squiz at the clutch side seal, if only for my peace of mind.

Thanks for your guidance, keep it coming.
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 647

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:54 am quote
I run this at sea level...

Sprint 150 3 port
20/20 + deillled air filter
DR 177 + SIP road 2.0

55 starter
112 main
BE3 tube
160 air corrector
60 slow run

Iím in the ďthereís no point to itĒ club concerning the 24/24 carb. Our membership has been steadily growing over the years.

Maybe you should consider pressure testing your engine. Thatís what I would do if I was at all suspect of the seals. Knowing is half the battle... and you wonít blow up.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:35 am quote
After a hiatus to get some paying work done and clean up the garage, got back to this tonight.

Dumped the oil, and found that there wasn't much left, and what there was stank of unleaded.

So the motor came out of the bike and onto the stand.

It's too late at night to keep going, so have given up till tomorrow, but heres 4000 words in pictures...

Craig

IMG_0875.jpg
So the motor came out of the bike and onto the stand.

IMG_0877.jpg
And disassembly began (again!)

IMG_0878.jpg
The oil here was a lot like what came out of the gearbox

IMG_0879.jpg
And the blow by here has me verrry suss about whats happening in there...

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:07 pm quote
Ok, Now I'm confused.

Case split nicely, crank tapped out, and the seal, well, looks fine.

If I were to try to pick a fault, it was raised up just a hair higher than perfect, but the seal looks fine, the spring looks fine and the rubber looks fine. It might have a slight leak in the outside perimeter, or maybe I rolled the seal pulling in the crank, but it shows no signs.

Weird.

I've got a couple of these http://www.gpsimports.com.au/products-details.php?productId=7028&search=product&productNumber=100666020, so I think I'll try one with some loctite 603.

Might be time to build a leakdown test kit.

Craig

IMG_0883.jpg

IMG_0885.jpg

IMG_0893.jpg

IMG_0894.jpg

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:03 pm quote
Seal looks fine. And I prefer the brown ones to the blue. This seal should always be stuck in with some Loctite 603 or similar.

The other classic place for a leak is the gasket right near the primary drive shaft. between those two studs. Looks like yours is baggy there and that is likely to be where it was leaking.

Top tip to avoid this is to first put the gasket on the flywheel casing with some sealer before the cases are closed.

btw. If you want that DR to go a bit better than the average put a 1mm thick base gasket on the cylinder when it goes back together. Going to need all the power it can get to pull that huge 23/64 gearbox!

Edit: If you actually still have 150 Super gear cogs in there with a 350 tyre and that Malossi 23/64 its never going to work. If you have regular PX cogs its going to struggle. Just thought you should know before you bolt it back up.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:58 pm quote
The gasket does look like it ran like this as Jack points out.

When you can, get yourself a 7-spring or Cosa clutch. That 6-spring won't last all that long with the extra power you will be putting out. If you take it easy you can baby it for a while but it'll probably start slipping sooner rather than later. You don't need top of the range but the bigger clutch will last a lot longer.

Clipboard01.jpg

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:47 am quote
Thanks gents - good get!

So leave the good seal in there without loctite, rather than put in the blue one with it.

I've got a piaggio gasket set still, so I'll give that a go. Any recommendations on sealant to go with it? I sprayed both sides of the last one Hylomar, is there something better to use? I've got ultra copper and some other RTV's, but non that don't like fuel.

Thanks again for the help

C.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:59 am quote
New gasket on the flywheel casing first and this doesn't happen.

Before putting it back together you need to discuss this gearbox or you are going to be disappointed.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:22 am quote
Cheers!

Itís got a set of sprint gears in it. Longer term plan is to go to a more performance cylinder kit and bigger clutch, but I had the DR and want to find out if these cases will handle it. Have a line on a set of LML cases that will probably be the candidates instead.

C
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:38 am quote
The old casings are better than the new ones!

By Sprint Gearbox do you mean 12-16-20-25 tree and 57/54/48/44 cogs?

If so, this is still very high. Only very slightly short of P200 gearing.

Are there any other alternatives in all your bits, or this the best you have?
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:25 pm quote
Sorry - I got that wrong. Actual ratios are 12,13,17,21 and 57,42,38,35.

The sprint set are in the spare casing I'm using to wheel the bike around.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:41 pm quote
oh dear that is the same ratios as a P200 and with the 23/64 its going to need a diesel conversion to pull it.

It will still ride but you won't be in 4th gear often and probably in 2nd on any hill.

If you have the 22 clutch cog and 67 ring gear from the Sprint or Super, that will make it all nice and usable again. Still higher than most put on a DR but at least in the zone.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:44 am quote
Well, bugger!

I'm going to make to much power for my clutch, and not enough for my gearing. Looks like I've screwed this nicely. Ahh well, live and learn.

Current plan is to plow ahead as is, and get the power side of the engine together, pressure tested and running properly. Then I'll look at the gearing, even if that means another split.

I could rebuild either of my 22/27 clutches, but if they're going to fail, why not go the whole hog and head to a 7 spring or Cosa straight away. Will that mean needing a new primary as well?

Ginch, do you have any recommendations of which clutch/set to get in this case? I can happily use either the sprint gear set or the P200, which clutch should I go for (within reason) given that I'll probably go for an upgrade to the DR sometime in the future? I'm not overly flush with cash atm, but I'd always rather spend the little bit more if it gets me a lot of return.

Cheers

C
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6941
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:52 pm quote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
Well, bugger!

I'm going to make to much power for my clutch, and not enough for my gearing. Looks like I've screwed this nicely. Ahh well, live and learn.

Current plan is to plow ahead as is, and get the power side of the engine together, pressure tested and running properly. Then I'll look at the gearing, even if that means another split.

I could rebuild either of my 22/27 clutches, but if they're going to fail, why not go the whole hog and head to a 7 spring or Cosa straight away. Will that mean needing a new primary as well?

Ginch, do you have any recommendations of which clutch/set to get in this case? I can happily use either the sprint gear set or the P200, which clutch should I go for (within reason) given that I'll probably go for an upgrade to the DR sometime in the future? I'm not overly flush with cash atm, but I'd always rather spend the little bit more if it gets me a lot of return.

Cheers

C
I know that you live in the city more or less so I don't think the gearing will be a gigantic problem although you will notice it. Maybe you'll need to slip the clutch a lot. I don't think it'll be unrideable though... if you take Jack's advice and make the most of the DR's potential it might save you buying another primary kit?

You might find a DRT small primary gear that will mesh with your Malossi large primary. But maybe not.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:02 pm quote
Don't be too hard on yourself, we only know because we have messed up and broken so much stuff, so many times (and still do!).

I think me and Ginch are both saying the same thing. It will ride but will be hard on the clutch and hills or windy days will need to be avoided.

You must still have the 22 clutch cog for the 6 spring and the 67 ring gear available. I would just put those back on and run with that.

The smallest straight cut cog for the Malossi 64 is a 22 for $50 and that is going to be not enough better. And scrap when you get a big clutch. Even when there is more power it will not need a higher box, as more power has more rpm.

The six spring clutch will be fine until it's wrecked but after that this is the cheapest of the type of clutch to go for. And this one will go on your 67 ring gear.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+fa+cosa+2+standard+_93045000
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:50 am quote
All good, live and learn.

Buttoned it up and built a leakdown kit.

Alloy plate, 3mm rubber, some grease, a bspt spigot and a chepo aneroid single hand sphygmomanometer on top



A greased up and clamped down stool foot on the base



And plenty of suds. The base and plate dont leak, but the there is a leak somewhere...

Cylinder base and head seem ok.



Flywheel side is all good



Sudsing up the clutch side was tricky and inconclusive, so I cleaned it out with some WD-40, then filled it with gear oil.

Voila. I'm blowing bubbles, and will forever unless I go back in.



So, new seal (trying to find a metal one here in Oz) this time with a slathering of 603. Going to have to find another crankcase seal too.

That's next weeks problem.

If I flip back to the 22/67 should I stick with the PX gearing, or raid the sprint case and grab the gearing out of it? I've got the clutch and primary that came with it intact as well.

As always, thanks for the advice

Craig
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:22 pm quote
Good you did the leak test. That seal did look ok but they are known to leak if you don't put any 603 on the metal.
I can't imagine not running an engine without pressure testing it first to check it is ok.

I think it's a waste of time to run that with the 23/64. If you have a 22/67 handy just put it back on with the P200 tree and cogs. Will still be high but not so much.

I see from your pictures there are no extra base gaskets on the DR. Any amount more than 1 gasket will improve the power. Possible to fit 5 gaskets, or so without modifying the head. The squish will be not so good but will still go much better than without.
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:04 am quote
Cheers.

Re the base gaskets, I've ordered as many as the local supplier has, but thats only 2. I've got another couple in a box somewhere that I'm trying to track down, and there's a couple of unpermatexed used ones kicking round.. With multiples, do you coat them all with permatex, or just stack and squeeze? Hard to find 1mm spacers here in Aus - might fire up the mill and cnc a few from 1mm stock.Anything special about them?

On the gearsets - I have the 22/67 12,13,17,21/57,42,38,35. version thats in it (just have to redo the primary and clutch), and also have the 22/67 12-16-20-25 tree and 57/54/48/44 sprint set. Which would be the best to run, given the 10" bogerefic wheels?

Thanks again

Craig
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, 50s in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:03 am quote
Jack I'll have access tonight to a nicely equipped machine room with a cnc and a manual bridgeport and a nice centre lathe.

If I'm putting a 1mm spacer at the bottom of the DR, should I do anything to the ports or the head? And/or should I open out the transfers then match the case?

Can you point me to any pre written wisdom on this (have had a search, it tells me I should, but not how...)

Ta

Craig
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1353
Location: London UK
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:46 am quote
The quick answer is, the Sprint cogs are slightly lower, so if you have the drive shaft, cruciform slide and gear selector that matches them (they all look similar but they are not), all in good condition, then these are the ones to use with the 22/67. If not the P200 cogs will be ok with as there will be a bit more power.

Convenient having a whole machine shop available. A 1mm packer ( I usually cut out of sheet and make my own) will work without the head done but the squish will be terrible, even so, more power. As you have the facillities, a 2mm packer is the full upgrade but you will need to take 2mm off from the head and/or cylinder top to get the squish back where it was. Take off a bit extra if you want to tighten up or trim the squish with gaskets.

Just clear all the burrs and rough casting out of the DR ports for now. It's an old scooter, so this will probably be more than enough to blow your socks off. If not sufficiently scary, there are some more things that can be done once it's run in.
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