Chassis Number HELP!
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Member
Sprint 150
Joined: 05 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Brisbane
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:58 am quote
Hi there. New to the Forum so hi all.

I have a couple of Vespa's coming from overseas but I have some problems with the Chassis number being accepted for an Import Permit. This appears to be a problem with both Vespa's.

For example the registration papers from Asia show a chassis number on one of the Vespa's as VLB1-1186952 and the other as VLB1-0174762. I have had the government department say both the numbers say they are incorrect, and request a photo of the actual number on the chassis. The problem here is they are already packed and on a ship (my bad not getting the permit first, oops).

Does anyone here know how to make sense of the chassis numbers and why they may think that they are incorrect? I have attached photos of the registration papers of each from the early 70's.

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Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 49

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:35 am quote
oh boy,...you're in for a world of hurt.
Who is going to tell him?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1337
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:45 am quote
VIN should be VLB1T and engine is VLB1M. But, Vespas and Asian imports are not usually a good combo. Did you do your homework on Vietbodges?? Iím afraid that youíre probably importing 2 death traps / polished turds...

I hope Iím wrong...
Hooked
68sprint,65super,64Allstate,55 Allstate
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 246
Location: Central california
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:26 am quote
chassis numbers
Oh boy!! I can see where this is going to go. good luck
Member
Sprint 150
Joined: 05 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Brisbane
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:06 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
VIN should be VLB1T and engine is VLB1M. But, Vespas and Asian imports are not usually a good combo. Did you do your homework on Vietbodges?? Iím afraid that youíre probably importing 2 death traps / polished turds...

I hope Iím wrong...
I hope you're wrong too, but thanks for the info re the VIN. My buddy who lives in Jakarta got one restored from this shop a year back and it's been great, so we should have about the same standard. He has test ridden the bike and rates it. Anyhow, I'll see what I get and let you guys know the outcome.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5337
Location: Indo
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:35 am quote
thats indo bike similar with my bpkb (motorcyle owner book) purwokerto is in central java, if i can see the next page i can tell wheter ur bike is ckd nor builfd up straight from italy,.. if the owner wasnt mess around to much due to times its spend here in Indo

b is a frame and c is the engine vin.. wht they wire it wrong.. they just lazy, my vlb were writen vbc in the engine vin
Member
Sprint 150
Joined: 05 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Brisbane
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:54 am quote
koenig blues wrote:
thats indo bike similar with my bpkb (motorcyle owner book) purwokerto is in central java, if i can see the next page i can tell wheter ur bike is ckd nor builfd up straight from italy,.. if the owner wasnt mess around to much due to times its spend here in Indo

b is a frame and c is the engine vin.. wht they wire it wrong.. they just lazy, my vlb were writen vbc in the engine vin
Ok I will take photo of the next page for both bikes and post here. Cheers
Member
Sprint 150
Joined: 05 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Brisbane
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 am quote
StuHarm wrote:
koenig blues wrote:
thats indo bike similar with my bpkb (motorcyle owner book) purwokerto is in central java, if i can see the next page i can tell wheter ur bike is ckd nor builfd up straight from italy,.. if the owner wasnt mess around to much due to times its spend here in Indo

b is a frame and c is the engine vin.. wht they wire it wrong.. they just lazy, my vlb were writen vbc in the engine vin
Ok I will take photo of the next page for both bikes and post here. Cheers


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Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3733
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:54 am quote
Dan Motors.
Trusty early Dan Motors import to Aus.
Is it a P150S by any chance? ie. do you have photos of the scoots by any chance?
Did you get full import approval BEFORE you imported them?
Whoever did the import approval should sort this out.
Did you buy via PlanetVespa or Vespa2 or who did you get them thru (I dont recall the other dodgy bunch based in Cairns)?

Have you read this yet: Bodgespotting
Member
Sprint 150
Joined: 05 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Brisbane
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:06 am quote
Re: Dan Motors.
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Trusty early Dan Motors import to Aus.
Is it a P150S by any chance? ie. do you have photos of the scoots by any chance?
Did you get full import approval BEFORE you imported them?
Whoever did the import approval should sort this out.
Did you buy via PlanetVespa or Vespa2 or who did you get them thru (I dont recall the other dodgy bunch based in Cairns)?

Have you read this yet: Bodgespotting
I'm actually not too sure on the model. Here's a few photos, i'd like to get your opinion. I had it refurbished and fitted a 170cc race kit and after market expansion chamber.

66a769df-c0b0-4cea-aa3a-5827dd253b8b.JPG

7ab09611-7c91-4979-98a8-eec51f77e7fd.JPG

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5337
Location: Indo
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:49 pm quote
U have a ckd sprint veloce.. it sure does coming from italy in complete knock down but our importir sometime missmatch some thing while assembling th back together.. hope thats help and cheer
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 185
Location: california
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:19 am quote
ebeth - Can you educate us? If the book says "CKD, SKD, BU". Does that mean it was either "completely knocked down", "semi knocked down", or "built up?" Its a little confusing that it says all three. Is that just how they mark any import that is not fully assembled when it was shipped to Indonesia? What would it have been marked if it arrived without any disassembly for shipping?


StuHarm - I can offer a ray of ray of hope and a few suggestions - but first - some perspective and head's-up.
- Every week, someone new to Vespa comes to this forum, very excited about a "restored" bike out of Asia that is shiny with lots of chrome - with some kind of question.
- The community responds with: "dude - look at all the signs - lists a million insightful details one can hardly believe can be see in the posted picture - and say: it's a bodge!"
- The new to Vespa person says: "what do I care if the floor mats are from a different model? I'm just excited to have a classic Vespa!"
- And then they ask some question - like - "hey, how do you adjust the gears - mine keeps jumping out of 3rd".
- That question is often the tip of the iceberg - and what follows is a discovery process that is not very pleasant for the new to Vespa person.
- These bikes - "restored" in Asia are found to have down right dangerous work done to them.
* Wrong forks - cut and poorly welded
* Engine bearings hammered to mushroom them to hold in bearings
* Missing cotter pins on critical nuts
* Missing nuts on critical nuts
* Non matching (=non properly aligned) halves of the engine case
* Frames cut and welded (often multiple bikes welded to create 1)
* Frame numbers re-stamped or cut out and welded from other bikes to hide origin of actual base model
* Worn out gear boxes
* Other stuff inside motor that could cause it to seize
* Nails, screws, bubble gum holding parts together, wrong parts, no parts, cheap parts - iced with bondo over top and shiny paint that will soon be cracked.

You get the idea.
Here is an example of what one of those threads read's like - and this one is not the worst by a mile. OMG! Look what I just scored - 1977 Sprint 150

The worst offenders seem to be out of Vietnam - and if you just google it - you will find a rash of horror stories. Totally unscrupulous. Shops in the US generally won't even work on them - don't want to get involved in the ball of yarn unraveling as one thing leads to another on a repair.

Ok - with all that said - there are some interesting things going on with yours:
- You have the orig paper work - or at least what appears to be. It's almost certainly authentic, but may or may not truly be for you bike.
- Assuming it is, your bike was imported from Italy. Good.
- Your buddy bought from these guys - and has not had a natural disaster.
- Your bike is Indo - not Vietnam - and "restorer" at minimum avoided the bodge bling approach.

What you don't know:
- Quality of work
- Quality of parts
- Safety of key elements

My recommendation.
1. Shoot pics of your frame number once bike arrives. use flash. shoot front and back. look for heat and re-stamp signs, or cut and weld signs. Post it and let everyone beat it up.
2. Consider a minor tear down. Seat and gas tank are really not hard to remove. Once out - you can see inside rear frame. Look for cut and weld lines inside that area, also under the rear fender, and if you can throughout the tunnel (for tunnel, you will need a scope. you can get them cheap to plug in to computer of phone.) You can scope the tunnel with gas tank out - the tunnel is the most critical area. How does it look in there? Any signs of cut and weld? Shoot pics.
3. Go over every critical nut holding on wheels, engine, etc. Cotter pins in place on all? Washer stacks look right? Shoot pics and use the community to vet the quality of work here also. There are some super knowledgable people on here and while their is no love for a bodge - no one wants to see you get hurt.
4. Fork - I'll let other's chime in - but at bear minimum, I would examine for any signs of mismatch/grinding/welding. Best if removed - but pain in the ass. At bear min. examine thoroughly from lower head bearing down.
5. Did shop that sold you the bike list the parts with details? If yes, do the parts you see match? i.e. if they list a new carburetor or a Piagio cable - is that cable really Piagio - or is it a lower cost local brand.

If at any point while doing above you find something that looks questionable - dig deeper. You bought two - and one is pink - so I am guessing you will be putting a loved on on the other bike. If you aren't comfortable doing above - find a shop (you are gonna need one in any event - even in a perfect world...)
Bring your bike and parts list - and let them have a good look/ check it out/ and give you a reading on safety/quality of work.

Hope helpful.
-CM
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 185
Location: california
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:44 am quote
Oh - and you might want to pay some focus here - between these lines. Might just be optical illusion - but looks a little wavy in this area. Run hand over it - is it smooth? Is it just the photo? This is the tunnel area I was referring to - critical to the over all structure of the scoot.

Best,
CM

66a769df_c0b0_4cea_aa3a_5827dd253b8b_13635.jpg
area between the two sets of red highlight lines - looks a little weird in the orig photo you posted.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5337
Location: Indo
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:17 pm quote
Well ur bike hasnt coming out from a harbour as a whole bike so its a ckd, since it said imvoervespa mean its import vespa and danmotor didnt have a factory before 1976 so the origin of parts pre 1974 is indeed from italy but were build here by importir,hope thats help and cheer
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 185
Location: california
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:24 pm quote
Thanks ebeth. Much appreciated!
-CM
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 207
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:22 pm quote
The issue isn't if the bike came from Italy or Dan Motors though.. Dan Motors built very good quality bikes by all accounts (under licence). The issue is that since it's arrival into Indonesia it was used and used hard. Rough roads with who knows how many people riding it at once (plus 'luggage'). These bikes kept a lot of families going as their only form of transport. And then the japanese bikes arrived and that was the end of that... Except for the die-hard awesome Vespa crowd (like brother E!) But any decent Vespa would be snatched up by those guys in a heart-beat.

But then people figured out that taking the absolutely wrecked/trashed bikes and cobbling this that and the kitchen sink together with a healthy coat of bondo/bog followed by a nice lick of paint made them very attractive to overseas buyers... +/- cheap after-market bling etc...

The lack of the subtle frame folds on the tunnel is worrying for said healthy layer of bondo.... hiding the weld of frames together.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6717
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:29 am quote
I have heard of vehicles that arrive without a permit being destroyed by the department of (whoever is in charge of that stuff).
My mate lived in Bali for three years and saw (among other things) shops full of old frames, with one in particular that was being spray painted. The paint looked amazing he said, and going over for a closer look, saw there was grass and dirt still inside the frame! So without actually being there watching over the shoulder of the builder, yours may not be all that you have dreamed of. Although to be fair the Indonesion stuff is probably better than Vietnamese.
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Trusty early Dan Motors import to Aus.
Is it a P150S by any chance? ie. do you have photos of the scoots by any chance?
Did you get full import approval BEFORE you imported them?
Whoever did the import approval should sort this out.
Did you buy via PlanetVespa or Vespa2 or who did you get them thru (I dont recall the other dodgy bunch based in Cairns)?

Have you read this yet: Bodgespotting
They're not imported to Australia, they're from Indonesia and on the ship. He didn't get approval first. And because he bought from Indonesia, it wasn't from Planet Vespa.
koenig blues wrote:
Well ur bike hasnt coming out from a harbour as a whole bike so its a ckd, since it said imvoervespa mean its import vespa and danmotor didnt have a factory before 1976 so the origin of parts pre 1974 is indeed from italy but were build here by importir,hope thats help and cheer
Brilliant brother E, nothing like having a local expert on hand!
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