Michelin city grip disappointment
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion
Author Message
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:26 am quote
Has anyone else encountered out of round (lumpy) brand new city grip tires?

I have a BV350 I bought new in 2013. It had an excessively out of round rear tire that could easily be felt in the 45 - 50 mph range. It was replaced under warranty at 1000 miles, which cured the problem. This last weekend I just replaced both front and rear tires with new city grips and found the front tire is so out of round it is almost unrideable between 40 and 55 mph. I took the wheel back off, re-lubed and re-seated the bead, rebalanced the tire, etc. when spinning the wheel on the balancer it is very easy to see a very obvious low spot (or high spot) as the tire spins. The balance is perfect with no head shake on deceleration from 80 mph, even with no hands on the bars. I have a replacement on order but this being the second time Iíve encountered this Iím thinking about other brands in the future. Shame, because Iíve always loved Michelins but this is getting old.

Anyone else?
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3974
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:00 am quote
Sorry to hear this.

I just bought two rear and one front City Grip for the new XMAX.

The rear Dunlop ScootSmart is almost done at 5800 miles.

I hope that mine are round.

Bill
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX150, GTS300, BV350, EN650
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 5124
Location: Home of the Alamo
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:08 am quote
WLeuthold wrote:
Sorry to hear this.

I just bought two rear and one front City Grip for the new XMAX.

The rear Dunlop ScootSmart is almost done at 5800 miles.

I hope that mine are round.

Bill
Sounds like you've been packing the miles on the XMAX Bill.

Good to know you enjoy her.
Member
Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 17 Jan 2019
Posts: 36
Location: Portland OR
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:34 am quote
Is the actual tire deformed? It might just be a broken belt?
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 am quote
No broken belts. The tire appears to not have been molded correctly.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:03 am quote
Bill - changing the tires is one of the things I needed to do prior to a trip to the keys. I have a couple of potential dates in mind and will let you know when I figure it out
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2510
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:14 am quote
For what it's worth, including the original tires my '13 BV350 has had three City Grips on the rear, three on the front, and I have a new rear City Grip in my house waiting for Spring. No out-of-round or balance problems with any of them, and I get about 12,000 miles on the rear and 17,000 on the front. The new one has a date code of 5017 if anyone's interested.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 am quote
I had the exact same issue with my new 2016 with City Grips. I replaced them with Metzlers and the problem persisted. It turned out that the rear wheel was not straight. I'm not the first BV350 owner with crooked wheels, BTW. Quality.b
The problem is almost certainly not the tires...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8112
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:37 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
I had the exact same issue with my new 2016 with City Grips. I replaced them with Metzlers and the problem persisted. It turned out that the rear wheel was not straight. I'm not the first BV350 owner with crooked wheels, BTW. Quality.b
The problem is almost certainly not the tires...
Was thinking that myself. Seems unlikely that you could consistently have the same problem after changing tires....
Ossessionato
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 4463
Location: Downtown Toronto
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 am quote
fledermaus wrote:
SCTLVR wrote:
I had the exact same issue with my new 2016 with City Grips. I replaced them with Metzlers and the problem persisted. It turned out that the rear wheel was not straight. I'm not the first BV350 owner with crooked wheels, BTW. Quality.b
The problem is almost certainly not the tires...
Was thinking that myself. Seems unlikely that you could consistently have the same problem after changing tires....
+3 . I don't think City Grip QC and the product would change that much over the years. It still ranks VERY high on any current reviews. If there was an issue I would think there would be some buzz about it.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2510
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:48 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
I had the exact same issue with my new 2016 with City Grips. I replaced them with Metzlers and the problem persisted. It turned out that the rear wheel was not straight. I'm not the first BV350 owner with crooked wheels, BTW. Quality.b
The problem is almost certainly not the tires...
Could you try breaking the bead, rotating the tire 90 degrees on the wheel, and see if the flat spot moves with the tire or the rim?
Ossessionato
2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max), 2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 1965 Lambretta Li 125
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3974
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:51 am quote
Jet Peddler wrote:
Sounds like you've been packing the miles on the XMAX Bill.

Good to know you enjoy her.
I can thank Lostboater for many of those miles.
Bueller wrote:
Bill - changing the tires is one of the things I needed to do prior to a trip to the keys. I have a couple of potential dates in mind and will let you know when I figure it out
Gregg, I can probably do almost any long weekend between now and May.

Bill
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:57 am quote
I have re-installed the City Grips on the original wheels after wearing out the Metzlers. The CG's act the same as before. I like the tires. The shaking sets in usually while cornering on longish midspeed turns. It feels as if it's coming from the rear and simply shakes frighteningly. Not good.
Referencing my TMAX, the Service Manual notes that the wheels should have no more than 1mm of runout. The original rear wheel on the BV has much more than 1mm.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:59 am quote
The rim is round as round can be. No runout. Itís all it the tire. I have not had two of the same tire out of round, I have had one front (110/70 16) and one rear (150/70 14) that were out of round. These two out of round tires were separated by four years. The date code on the front is the 41st week of 2016, which I also a bit disappointing to receive a 2.5 year old tire out of the box.

I can put the nearly 18,000 mile old front city grip back on and the problem is gone. It is NOT a bent or otherwise deformed rim.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:05 am quote
One mm of runout is appx 1/25 of an inch, which is .040Ē. Yes, I would consider even that to be a lot of runout for a cast wheel, and is quite visible on a balancer or truing stand. My BVís front wheel does not have visible runout. The tire, on the other hand has close to a quarter inch of runout. Itís more pronounced to the right of the center of the tread.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:07 am quote
WLeuthold wrote:
Gregg, I can probably do almost any long weekend between now and May.

Bill
Awesome, Iíll let you know!
Member
GT
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Delray Beach, Fl
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm quote
Just today I put two brand new city grips on the GT, no issues to report at this time.
Lurker
2016 GTS 300ie
Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Posts: 3
Location: San Diego
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:30 pm quote
i go through several pairs a year. never had any problems.
Hooked
GT200 / ET2 Kitted
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 191
Location: Louisville, Colorado
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:35 pm quote
n2tattoos wrote:
i go through several pairs a year. never had any problems.
Holy smokes, that is a lot of riding. Well done!

I have a few thousand miles on my city grips and I just love them.

For what it's worth I have a set of metzelers on my et2 and I like those as well. Your problem is odd indeed. Looking forward to reading a resolution hopefully.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:14 am quote
I am waiting on a warranty replacement tire to show up. Once I have it mounted and balanced Iíll post the results.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8112
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:27 am quote
Bueller wrote:
I am waiting on a warranty replacement tire to show up. Once I have it mounted and balanced Iíll post the results.
Good luck. It's been a bit challenging it seems....
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1936
Location: London
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:05 am quote
Seems a bit odd though that a modern manufacturer of what is essentially safety equipment would be having failures and the chances of having any tyre have a manufacturing fault are quite small. The chances of getting two faults in a row are minuscule. Are you sure there's nothing wrong with your wheels or the balancing or the way you put them on? I'll admit I use city grips and find them excellent. I'm full of admiration for anyone that can put a tyre on a bike but even the guys at my local tyre shop say that scooter tyres are tough to get right.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:23 am quote
Iím an ASE certified Master Technician with 20 years in the car business and almost 10 years after that in the motorcycle business working for Harley. I canít count all of the tires Iíve mounted and balanced in my career.

Iíve also seen plenty of tires that were beyond manufacturer specification from all manufacturers. In the auto tire world they used to grade the tires for conformity after they cane out of molds. The lesser grades were sold as off brands. I donít know if they still do this or not today, but I do know that tires can come out if molds with variances in concentricity.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:25 am quote
Bueller,
Did you check the wobble?
Maybe the axle is bent.
It's not the tires.
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1936
Location: London
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am quote
Bueller wrote:
Iím an ASE certified Master Technician with 20 years in the car business and almost 10 years after that in the motorcycle business working for Harley.
Fair enough
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:11 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
Bueller,
Did you check the wobble?
Maybe the axle is bent.
It's not the tires.
I realize you are trying to help. Thatís appreciated. But it is impossible for the axle to cause a front wheel hop. The axle is stationary.

Furthermore, the tire itself hops when spun on a balancer. The rim does not. The balancer takes the axle out of the equation because it is not used. Donít believe me if you donít want to, but it is in fact the front tire causing the problem.

For those who are in abject disbelief that the almighty Michelin can make an out of round tire, I suggest you google and do some reading on the frequency with which this happens in the manufacturing process. Michelin makes great tires (usually) but they too can make an out of round/defective tire.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:16 am quote
+1, I was speaking of the rear wheel, not the front.
I wish you good fortunes repairing the problem.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1044
Location: UK
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 am quote
Tyres often get deformed in storage, especially if they are stored for a long time. On installation it is a good idea to take a tyre right up to the maximum allowed pressure ( marked on the tyre) then deflate to the recommended pressure. After a few heat cycles the tyre will relax back to the shape determined by its inflated condition. This is why a wheel balanced with a new tyre is likely to need balancing again after 'running in'. If its still out of true after 100 miles or so then it probably does have a manufacturing defect.

In cold conditions it could be difficult to get the tyre to relax to the correct shape, especially on the front.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6525
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:28 am quote
Bueller wrote:
One mm of runout is appx 1/25 of an inch, which is .040Ē. Yes, I would consider even that to be a lot of runout for a cast wheel, and is quite visible on a balancer or truing stand. My BVís front wheel does not have visible runout. The tire, on the other hand has close to a quarter inch of runout. Itís more pronounced to the right of the center of the tread.
Sounds like a broken belt in the tire to me from you description.
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 pm quote
As promised I am following up on this. I received and installed the warranty replacement city grip front tire this afternoon. This tire was made mid way through 2018 instead of back in 2016 like the first one. This tire took a bit more weight to balance, but I am pleased to say is 1000% better than the last one. It has a fraction of the runout of the previous tire and rises like you would expect a new tire to ride. I took it up to 80 and decelerated with my hands off the bars. There was no vibration, no hop, no shake, no wobble at any speed.

So there you go. Michelin can sell a bad tire occasionally, just like any other tire maker!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6525
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:17 pm quote
If they never made a bad tire they would not need warranties
Addicted
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 579
Location: Toronto
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm quote
Bueller wrote:
As promised I am following up on this. I received and installed the warranty replacement city grip front tire this afternoon. This tire was made mid way through 2018 instead of back in 2016 like the first one. This tire took a bit more weight to balance, but I am pleased to say is 1000% better than the last one. It has a fraction of the runout of the previous tire and rises like you would expect a new tire to ride. I took it up to 80 and decelerated with my hands off the bars. There was no vibration, no hop, no shake, no wobble at any speed.

So there you go. Michelin can sell a bad tire occasionally, just like any other tire maker!
Glad it all worked out!!
Ossessionato
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 4976
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:43 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
If they never made a bad tire they would not need warranties
Actually, if they never made a bad tire they could offer the industry's most bestest awesome warranty, and it would be no additional cost or risk to themselves.

Hooked
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 297
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:41 pm quote
Bueller wrote:
As promised I am following up on this. I received and installed the warranty replacement city grip front tire this afternoon. This tire was made mid way through 2018 instead of back in 2016 like the first one. This tire took a bit more weight to balance, but I am pleased to say is 1000% better than the last one. It has a fraction of the runout of the previous tire and rises like you would expect a new tire to ride. I took it up to 80 and decelerated with my hands off the bars. There was no vibration, no hop, no shake, no wobble at any speed.

So there you go. Michelin can sell a bad tire occasionally, just like any other tire maker!
I don't know why anyone doubted you.
I have had duds from Michelin, Metzeler, Mitas, Continental...
I just take then back soon and request a replacement.
I've never had a problem from my suppliers.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:16 pm quote
Have you had back to back purchases of the same brand and type have problems?
Hooked
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 131

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:44 pm quote
Keep in mind in my case ďback to backĒ was separated by 5 years.

Just did a two-up ride today from Osteen FL to the Villages and back - about 130 miles. The replacement tire is great, the BV rolled over 18,000 miles and is running fantastic. Next up is the 18,000 mile service and a new thermostat (sticks open sometimes).
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1118
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:30 pm quote
Nice ride. One of my business partners just retired to The Villages in the new year from New York. Says it's great.
18K on a BV. That's nice to hear.
Hooked
2006 LX 150, 2008 Buddy 125
Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 425
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:24 pm quote
I bought a pair (front and rear) about 9 months ago. So far I have only installed the front tire - it has been flawless, no issues at all.
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Scooter Parts Company
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion
[ Time: 0.2907s ][ Queries: 23 (0.0434s) ][ Debug on ]