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Member
2003 Stella 2T (4kW electric conversion underway)
Joined: 31 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:15 pm quote
I've been following this thread for a while and happy to see recent updates.

I have a 2003 Genuine Stella 2T which is essentially a PX150 large frame. I attempted a full IC engine rebuild last summer and it ran great but something wasn't right with the gear stack. I had thought about going electric before the rebuild and now I'm ready to ditch the 2 stroke!

@resistor I'm super interested in your 72V upgrade. I've been eyeing a motor from Kelly - their 72V 6kW motor - which seems like a beast. I've also looked at the battery pack from Luna, but it is pricey and may not be powerful enough. Leaning towards assembling my own.

Just wanted to check into this thread and say hello. Keep up the great work!
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 972
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:23 am quote
This is getting more and more interesting. Freak Moped got his hands on one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXuz0pHAAHU
Member
2013 S150; 1961 VBB
Joined: 18 Feb 2019
Posts: 29
Location: Dallas
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:34 am quote
That's really cool. He is using the stock swing arm and motor casing, so no hub motor. The engineering is brilliant!

He is using 3 batteries to get the range extension (200k/120miles). However, I'm not sure I have the stones to put a battery under the floorboard attached with sticky tape.

There was an outfit in Seattle, I think they were called Sound Speed Scooters, that briefly offered a similar set up, but they disappeared pretty quickly. They were a little early, as the battery tech has come a long way since then. Still more to go before this becomes mainstream, but 20hp should be plenty for anyone in the scooter world.
Enthusiast
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 64
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 am quote
pls moped & freak together
freakmoped it is!

its very well done and has the charme that you can still hand gearshift which i think is ingenious! & it even has a kickstarter

fun to ride, engine has 15kW, but its set to 9kW = 12hp
as they still have some TPS setting issues
i would NOT go for less power, near to 9kW is needed


box exhaust with sticky tape = controller, not the battery
the three batteries are in the spare wheel lid and tank area
same cells as tesla uses, i was told

more info:
part1: https://bit.ly/3h5YdoL
part2: (only analog, digital to come)
part3: https://bit.ly/2GqCTxp

its the austrian crank-e principle where you keep the gearbox
www.crank-e.at

test ride with crank-e smallframes
https://bit.ly/2FakLHx
https://bit.ly/3h2VxIx

more info about the project in the austrian news papter motomobil
part1: https://bit.ly/3h5YdoL
part2: (only analog, digital to come)
part3: https://bit.ly/2GqCTxp


dont ask about the costs
you get 2 bfa 306 engines for it
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:06 pm quote
resistor wrote:
That kit looks pretty interesting. And I like the fact that it is a mostly turn-key conversion, which simplifies things a lot!

Specifically, the swing arm is probably the most difficult and critical part of the conversion and their solution is very ingenious. The dual shock mount is a nice touch also, but the shock placement is probably the reason they sprung for a drum brake instead of a disc. At their max speed, a drum is probably sufficient, but a hub motor is really a big magnet, and at higher speeds you'd probably like the additional stopping power of a disc.

Highlights (for me) are the 60v battery and swing arm design. Low lights are the 1000W motor--you'll need a bigger motor if you don't want to over volt and run hotter. Also the 20Ah battery wouldn't afford a lot of range, but being able to remove the battery for charging would allow for commuter usage. All the rest of the kit looks pretty comprehensive to me.

Finally, the problem with this conversion, and frankly my original build, is the max speed. 55kph isn't going to cut it most of the time. I believe it is the reason for the big yawn over the modern Vespa Elettrica, and the reason there aren't more electric scooters in the US. It's probably fine for an inner city commute, but here in Dallas, if you can't go 45mph in a 30mph zone, you're going to get run over!

I have taken apart my scooter and rebuilt it with a 72V battery, 4000W motor, and a host of changes that allow me to "enjoy the go". I've had it to 45mph, but haven't pushed the top end yet. I'm still in data collection mode and when I know more about the capabilities, I'll post again. This electric thing is coming, and someday will be more prevalent. But for now, it's a bit lonely for the electric guys.
I am following this with real interest. I have a 1981 PX that I am restoring, and recently got into ebikes. This made me consider building the scooter into an e-scooter. I figure I can sell the motor and parts for $500, which will help to offset the cost of the conversion. I figure the cost at around $2K. Does that sound reasonable?

Can you give me links to your 72V set-up, motor, batteries, controllers etc.?

I am very serious about this. Should be a blast, and more fun than the temperamental 2 stroke 200cc I have now.


Running and riding, though skipping out of 2nd.


Currently:

Member
2013 S150; 1961 VBB
Joined: 18 Feb 2019
Posts: 29
Location: Dallas
Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:04 am quote
Jim,

I think you can easily do this conversion for under $2K, depending on your choice of components. The battery is the most expensive part, and you have many choices on motor controller and hub motor. All these parts come from China, so you have to factor in shipping costs when you make your decisions.

The hardest part, if you don't have to teach yourself some basic electronics, is the swing arm. If you can make it yourself, you'll save some $$$. From your restoration work so far, it looks like you could possess the skills. I did not, and I had my fabricator do some other work as my bike started life as a bodge. You are already at a better starting point.

I've mentioned somewhere in this thread that I had to lie to my wife about how much it would cost to do this project. I think she may be on to me now though. But it is doable if you can do the other conversion work yourself.

I love this scooter as an electric. It is fun to ride, easy to maintain, and never leaves a puddle in the garage. Amongst the gear heads on this site (and there are some amazing technical talent here) you will be in a fringe cult. But like all cults, we are always looking for new members...
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:59 am quote
resistor wrote:
Jim,

I think you can easily do this conversion for under $2K, depending on your choice of components. The battery is the most expensive part, and you have many choices on motor controller and hub motor. All these parts come from China, so you have to factor in shipping costs when you make your decisions.

The hardest part, if you don't have to teach yourself some basic electronics, is the swing arm. If you can make it yourself, you'll save some $$$. From your restoration work so far, it looks like you could possess the skills. I did not, and I had my fabricator do some other work as my bike started life as a bodge. You are already at a better starting point.

I've mentioned somewhere in this thread that I had to lie to my wife about how much it would cost to do this project. I think she may be on to me now though. But it is doable if you can do the other conversion work yourself.

I love this scooter as an electric. It is fun to ride, easy to maintain, and never leaves a puddle in the garage. Amongst the gear heads on this site (and there are some amazing technical talent here) you will be in a fringe cult. But like all cults, we are always looking for new members...
Thanks for jumping in. Your scooter is my inspiration! My wife is generally on boards, as far as that goes. So we shall see. I'm pretty confident that I can work up a swingarm. Maybe alter a motorcycle one that is close in dimensions. The good thing about a large frame is there is a lot of room to work with, so I have more options for batteries!

Lots of research and study to do, but I am really amped (bad pun) to get this project underway.
Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:24 pm quote
resurrecting an old thread.

I'm looking at doing a conversion on a smallframe with lots of dents and no engine.

figured I'd get this model (the plain cover with drum brake)

https://www.qsmotor.com/product/10inch-4000w-scooter-motor/

and figure out the rest. the company that does the conversion kits for SIP (Smeet's Classics) has an aluminum swingarm they'd sell me separately for 150 euro. I'm told they're working on a version that mounts the original single shock to one side like a stock Vespa.

I'll start my own thread for the process but figured I'd mention here that it is entirely doable for under $1k - get a nice strong motor and controllre and a decent battery... the rest you can piece together.

7adedc90aab9ef23d7db5edc1d97be5dac663554Oq2G4aFLKS.jpg

Member
2013 S150; 1961 VBB
Joined: 18 Feb 2019
Posts: 29
Location: Dallas
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:07 pm quote
Saturn,

I really do hope you will join us in the electric world and do a conversion. There are two members here that have recently completed, or are in the process of, an electric conversion. Between the three of us, I'm sure we can provide assistance as you work through issues along the way.

As you have noticed already, the swing arm is the most difficult of the issues with this conversion. I hope Jim Von Baden, whose recently completed scooter was chronicled in the Not So Modern section, will weigh in since he built his own swing arm. He'll have additional insights into the problems and issues associated with the design. 150 Euro for a swing arm is a bargain if you can live with the drum brake and shock design.

I think I need to tell you that I don't think $1K will do it though. I'll ask the others for their opinion, but I'm pretty sure that a 72V 25+AH battery will cost that much on it's own. Add a controller, motor, and throttle and I would be surprised if you get out for less than $2k. I'm always open to surprises though, and I wouldn't discourage the idea of just diving in and building as you go.

In addition to Jim Von Baden, the other MV member is called EmVeeTee who is doing a Stella 4Kw conversion. Reach out, as these builds are better/easier with some assistance from those who have struggled also. I'm quite sure that they both can and will offer advice and encouragement as you progress.

Can't wait to see your build!
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:27 pm quote
I think that Resistor is right in every way. The battery will run near $1K, and the other parts another $1K new. You may be able to find some used parts to bring it to $1K though.

As for the swingarm, 150 e\Euro is a bargain. I spent three solid days building mine from scratch. I could do it in a day now that I know what to do. I would love to check out your swingarm. There are some needs that should be met to ensure it will work.

Member
2003 Stella 2T (4kW electric conversion underway)
Joined: 31 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:44 pm quote
I'll chime in as well. I'm in the home stretch of my large frame Stella conversion. Agree with both Resistor and Jim. Your battery is going to push $1K. The motor and controller will be $400-500 with shipping. There are lots of small incidental things that came up for me - wire, connectors, shrink tubing, etc. It adds up pretty quickly.

The pre-fab swing arm is attractive and that is a good price, but as you note you will need to stick with a drum brake. My Stella had a front disc brake and I wanted disc on the rear as well, so I know mine wasn't a minimal budget.

This project has been incredible fun for me so far and I'm getting pretty close to being on the road.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:53 pm quote
EmVeeTee wrote:
I'll chime in as well. I'm in the home stretch of my large frame Stella conversion. Agree with both Resistor and Jim. Your battery is going to push $1K. The motor and controller will be $400-500 with shipping. There are lots of small incidental things that came up for me - wire, connectors, shrink tubing, etc. It adds up pretty quickly.

The pre-fab swing arm is attractive and that is a good price, but as you note you will need to stick with a drum brake. My Stella had a front disc brake and I wanted disc on the rear as well, so I know mine wasn't a minimal budget.

This project has been incredible fun for me so far and I'm getting pretty close to being on the road.
To tag on the brake, I have a stock drum front, and disc rear. The disc is WAY more powerful than the drum, and needed due to the increased power and speed potential.

That said, I believe the disc could be used with that swingarm, with minor mods.
Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:53 pm quote
the company that sells the motor (QSMotor) has versions with disc but I'm very unfamiliar with that setup. would I need to convert to hydraulic or is it mechanical and compatible with the vespa lever/cable? I assumed the drum would be sufficient since even on electric it's not going any faster than a factory vespa (55-ish mph) on average.

would be very interested in your thoughts on the swingarm as the one being offered cheap is the one pictured above from Smeets Classics and they say they've modified it to mount to the stock Vespa spring. not sure which I'd prefer - doing welding on the frame since it needs a new floorboard anyway, so fabbing up a mount for dual-spring wouldn't be too big of a deal (and might result in a better ride anyway).

00B0B_1QjqHsOsVoPz_0ak07K_600x450.jpg

00505_hkFqjxQYTKGz_0ak07K_600x450.jpg

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:04 pm quote
PS if I do go with disc it would be interesting for sure (front and rear) - I figured I might eliminate the brake pedal and opt to re-factor the shift lever into a brake lever (weld the shifter in place so it doesn't rotate and fab up some sort of set screws to keep the steel tube in place).

might piss off purists but I'm saving an original smallframe from the junkyard at this point.

other thoughts: SIP electric speedometer, LED projector headlight, LED brake light / license plate light, multicolor (green/yellow/red) power+charge indicator LED where the headlight indicator would normally go, re-using the on/off switch in the headset, but putting a large battery cutoff switch where the fuel lever used to go (and welding up the choke hole).

TE-288-000.jpg

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:28 pm quote
PS #2 a random swingarm design I found - is the tab for a disc brake?

032 - Shock location is perfect.jpg

Member
2013 S150; 1961 VBB
Joined: 18 Feb 2019
Posts: 29
Location: Dallas
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:28 am quote
A lot to unpack here. Starting with the easy one, I don't really have any idea what the tab is for on that swing arm. The QS motors come with a bracket that attaches to the motor shaft for mounting the disc caliper. But the one depicted is in an odd place for caliper mounting.

The switch you've depicted is actually pretty massive in real life. I recommend a kill switch and a battery disconnect (for maintenance) switch. Since real estate inside the frame is at a premium, I use this marine circuit breaker as a disconnect. I think Jim uses the same one too. Small, light, and effective.


As for brakes, EmVeeTee installed a hydraulic foot brake, which is an option I probably would use if I built my scooter now. I think SIP sells them and it is awesome. I like the handlebar brake, but the hydraulics crowd an already small handlebar and you have to find a way for the hose to travel through the frame on their way to the back of the bike. If you do use the foot brake option, there is nothing for your left hand to do, since there's no more shifter, so you have to get past that.

As for the drum vs disc argument, I agree that you can stop a stock vespa with a drum brake, but you can stop faster with a disc. The hub motor is a giant electromagnet, heavy and a large spinning mass to bring under control. I would argue a disc is the better way to exert that control, but I also dislike telling another brother how to build a bike.

Dual shocks is indeed a better ride, but heavier than the mono shock design. If you can live with that, go for two. I think JimVonBaden and EmVeeTee would probably tell you the real problem in swing arm design is that the disc brake and the shock want to occupy the same space, and that results in some compromise on design. The drum brake is one compromise, while the shock and disc brake on opposite sides is another compromise. If you do go for dual shocks, I think you are locked into a drum brake, as there is no more room for a disc. Just food for thought.

It looks like you have some fabrication to do with your floorboard. There are a lot of members with some real skills in metal work on this site, so your progress will likely be followed closely. It might be slightly diluted since you're going electric, but welcome to the EV club.

IMG_1108.JPG
This is a 72V 200 amp switch.

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:14 am quote
this is all great info. I will likely go with disc front and rear.

one thing that could work:

remote hydraulics actuated by factory cables, maybe hide them in a glovebox

something I noticed on other designs is they had the reservoir and master cyl at the same level or lower than the brake, which can cause problems

if I can pull this off I may convert my lambretta to electric as well
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:31 pm quote
Not sure what the tab is for, unless for a drum brake track bar. It would not do for a disc brake. That said, I saw that swingarm, and considered using it. Making the disc brake set-up work on it would be as easy as drilling a hole for the track arm on the disc brake mount.

SS Cap bolt shown here:


You can do hydraulic like I did with a lever grafted on the left handlebar, or a hydraulic kit that uses the stock brake pedal like others here have done.

7LsmJCj.jpg

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:52 am quote
isn't having it on the pedal too low?
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 384
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 pm quote
saturn wrote:
isn't having it on the pedal too low?
Not an issue I guess. The bike stands tall.
Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Undisclosed
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:33 pm quote
I started a thread for my build

http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2458908#2458908
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