Are the LML/Vespa T5 headsets interchangeable with px?
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Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:54 pm quote
I'm looking for the 80s T5 for a build idea but i don't think they are common in USA. So I am wondering if the LML or Vespa T5 handlebar and headset can easily be swapped onto a px/Stella 150 frame?

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/ersatzteile/spare+parts++vespa+pxt5cosa-844/handlebar++speedometer-862?model=17041f52-fde7-4a2e-8966-0648b88309c8

I know this is not true to original, but that headset and headlight would work well for the visual style of this idea that I want to build.[/u]
Enthusiast
Vespa granturismo px acma
Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Posts: 50
Location: New Caledonia
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:46 pm quote
Hello
Px and t5 are different
If you want an t5 handle you need to change the fork
For an t5 fork
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:13 pm quote
Choc nc wrote:
Hello
Px and t5 are different
If you want an t5 handle you need to change the fork
For an t5 fork
Thanks for the info.

Apparently LML made a T5 clone. I wonder if they used the same frame/fork as their star 150, and if so, those lml t5 headsets SIP has might be interchangeable.

This is kindof awesome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFiDXD-iQw
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:28 pm quote
Going off the SIP products listed, I think the LML version of T5 used the same fork as the LML Star/Genuine Stella 150 which is what I have.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+column+lml+for+lml+_21674400

Lists compatible bikes as Vespa T5 at the bottom.
Hooked
50 N
Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 267
Location: North Aberdeenshire
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:20 am quote
LML uses pinchbolt arrangement for fixing like PX etc.

T5 uses a locking ring arrangement like the Cosa and PK XL2 so it won't fit without the correct fork.

You should be fine using the LML parts.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 17006
Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:05 am quote
Hard work
Lml base an plastic shroud but they need tweeking as they're shite quality ...... mine was 8mm off level n needed cutting out n rewelding ......

20150808_103743.jpg

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:14 am quote
Juan Kerr wrote:
LML uses pinchbolt arrangement for fixing like PX etc.

T5 uses a locking ring arrangement like the Cosa and PK XL2 so it won't fit without the correct fork.

You should be fine using the LML parts.
So you are saying if i have an lml star 150 i still need to find the correct fork but can use the lml headset parts?

Good info!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:17 am quote
Re: Hard work
T5bitza69 wrote:
Lml base an plastic shroud but they need tweeking as they're shite quality ...... mine was 8mm off level n needed cutting out n rewelding ......
Interesting. If i ever find the
Correct parts and get a chance to try this I'll have to figure that out as well.

That bike looks great! It's an original Vespa px with lml t5 headset?
Hooked
50 N
Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 267
Location: North Aberdeenshire
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:45 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
So you are saying if i have an lml star 150 i still need to find the correct fork but can use the lml headset parts?
No, your Star fork should be just fine. Without dragging up pictures or links they're quite different but you've no need to concern yourself with that. Anyway Jim (Bitza) is far more qualified than myself to answer any further question you may have.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:13 pm quote
Re: Hard work
T5bitza69 wrote:
mine was 8mm off level n needed cutting out n rewelding ......
T5bitza can you elaborate on what part needed modification and where?

This just became more of a possibility... the LML headset parts are not too expensive and its easier than finding a T5 in the wilds of USA, an affordable one if that! Dismantling the headset and handlebars to swap these parts out is a lot easier than changing the fork.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:14 pm quote
Juan Kerr wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
So you are saying if i have an lml star 150 i still need to find the correct fork but can use the lml headset parts?
No, your Star fork should be just fine. Without dragging up pictures or links they're quite different but you've no need to concern yourself with that. Anyway Jim (Bitza) is far more qualified than myself to answer any further question you may have.
Thats great news! In that case, I may actually try this swap and am more seriously considering a new paint job to complete this idea!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:26 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Juan Kerr wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
So you are saying if i have an lml star 150 i still need to find the correct fork but can use the lml headset parts?
No, your Star fork should be just fine. Without dragging up pictures or links they're quite different but you've no need to concern yourself with that. Anyway Jim (Bitza) is far more qualified than myself to answer any further question you may have.
Thats great news! In that case, I may actually try this swap and am more seriously considering a new paint job to complete this idea!
the most difficult part of the conversion it finding a T5 speedometer...that is if you're wanting a T5 speedometer. I have a Trailtech speedo computer on my T5. If you currently have a hydo disc brake, you'll also need to sort out how you want to mount a brake master cylinder on the T5's lower headset and run the hydro hose.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:31 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
Juan Kerr wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
So you are saying if i have an lml star 150 i still need to find the correct fork but can use the lml headset parts?
No, your Star fork should be just fine. Without dragging up pictures or links they're quite different but you've no need to concern yourself with that. Anyway Jim (Bitza) is far more qualified than myself to answer any further question you may have.
Thats great news! In that case, I may actually try this swap and am more seriously considering a new paint job to complete this idea!
the most difficult part of the conversion it finding a T5 speedometer...that is if you're wanting a T5 speedometer. I have a Trailtech speedo computer on my T5. If you currently have a hydo disc brake, you'll also need to sort out how you want to mount a brake master cylinder on the T5's lower headset and run the hydro hose.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/speedometer+lml+for+vespa+t5+_26664200

Was hoping SIP had a Speedometer 2.0 for T5 but I can't find one by them.

I wonder if the LML T5 headset has mount point for the lml brake master cylinder as they use them on the Stella/Star.

Anyone have a parts diagram or service manual for T5 or the LML select (t5 clone)? Just trying to figure out all the little bits I would need to order from SIP to use the LML headset option.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:40 pm quote
Here’s a pic of my Trailtech Vapor computer. I also wired in the TT “dashboard” as well. I have turn signal and high/low beam indicators.

4BA5AD1C-85EB-42C9-B063-47101835AD0A.jpeg

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:21 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Here’s a pic of my Trailtech Vapor computer. I also wired in the TT “dashboard” as well. I have turn signal and high/low beam indicators.
Love it! foam packing cut to shape! What is that scooter, before the T5 headset addition?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:41 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
Here’s a pic of my Trailtech Vapor computer. I also wired in the TT “dashboard” as well. I have turn signal and high/low beam indicators.
Love it! foam packing cut to shape! What is that scooter, before the T5 headset addition?
The scooter is a 1985 T5 MK1 square tail...well it still is, but since there was so much rust, it got cut down a little bit...

It’s a textured ABS plastic that I used for the to mount the computer to.

There was no square T5 or LML headset that came with a disc brake. Lots of owners have modified their headset to accept a Grimeca style master cylinder though. That’s what I did with my T5. While I was at it, I did drop bars, as well as rotating the master cylinder down about 25 degrees. Drops are much more simple on a T5 headset because it’s made out of stamped steel, as opposed to cast aluminum on all the other headsets.

I haven’t rode the bike for quite some time, so it’s embarrassingly dusty right now.

67AE53C0-F61E-47A1-B567-40E077296969.jpeg

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:59 am quote
Mine as well mention the build idea and put it out here for others to see. It might motivate myself to actualize it. I want to take a 1986 T5 or 1986 PX and rebuild it with a T5 headset and paint it as the Pork Chop Express for my favorite movie Big Trouble in Little China and actor/character Kurt Russel as Jack Burton! I never drive faster than my eyes can see!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeR27OP4V7U

Seeing as a 1986 T5 or PX is extremely specific and probably either too expensive or hard for me to find here in NYC, I am thinking of tearing my stella apart and swapping the LML T5 headset onto it with the paint job.
Even though I didn't know him, I feel I should actually do this conversion of stella to T5 headset to honor Bitza, and if I ever make it a reality, I will put a little inscription on the headset to him. From what I read on here, it seems we have much in common music and personality wise and probably would have gotten along well.

PorkChopExpress.JPG
1986 Vespa with T5 headset would go well in this paint job.

st,small,215x235-pad,210x230,f8f8f8.lite-1u2.jpg
pork chop express logo

3TuyBSN.jpg
needs the jack burton trucking company logo on the door.

IMG_20180821_203746.jpg
favorite soundtrack. John Carpenter is amazing

IMG_20180821_205118.jpg

IMG_20180630_164959_414.jpg
Big trouble boardgame. as you can see i have an obsession.

Hooked
50 N
Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 267
Location: North Aberdeenshire
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:22 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I feel I should actually do this conversion of stella to T5 headset to honor Bitza, and if I ever make it a reality, I will put a little inscription on the headset to him.
That will be a nice touch.

I quite like the film myself although not watched it in a number of years. I get the feeling you may watch it several times per year.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:43 pm quote
Juan Kerr wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I feel I should actually do this conversion of stella to T5 headset to honor Bitza, and if I ever make it a reality, I will put a little inscription on the headset to him.
That will be a nice touch.

I quite like the film myself although not watched it in a number of years. I get the feeling you may watch it several times per year.
More like several times a week. Ha!
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rustbadge
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Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:02 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.it%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153384211235
Good look. I may try to pick up a p200e in pieces needing full assembly, unfortunately i am out of town for the next week and it will probably be sold before i am able to get there. This could potentially work for that with the correct fork as mentioned earlier. If i stick to the Stella, the lml t5 headset parts on sip work with my current bikes fork, and are only about $175 for all the parts. I'll keep this in mind if i get that p200.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:17 pm quote
Updating this thread for two reasons.
1. main part is arriving this week and
2. looking for if anyone has the LML T5 parts manual? or even at least the Vespa T5 parts manual?

I had all the LML T5 headset parts on a SIP notepad for months waiting to order it all. Just when I went to order it, the speedo went out of stock forever and I was pissed. Luckily I found one on Facebook from a guy I met at the WD2019 scooter rally I went to in PA. He has one of maybe 5 original Vespa T5's in the USA which he imported from the UK. Said he bought the LML T5 headset for that and didn't realize it was the LML one so he didn't use it as his bike is all original Vespa.

I will receive it from UPS by Saturday. All other parts are still available as of now on SIP website to completely swap out the Stella headset for the LML T5 headset. I don't plan on swapping it right now, but I will be ordering those shortly just in case because that would suck to never be able to get some of those parts again seeing as how rare both an original T5 and an LML T5 are in the USA.

Just to rehash the plan... after I get my Stella engine rebuilt and running safely (same bike as my Stella 2T Highway modifications thread), I am going to keep it running as is for about a year. During that time, I hope to rebuild and get the P200 project I have finally running and on the road. Once that P200 is running, I plan on switching over to that as daily driver so that I can circle back to the ultimate plan for this bike.

I'm gonna strip the frame down, sandblast it, do any metal repair work straightening little dents out, then repaint it as a theme scooter. That theme is the Pork Chop Express from Big Trouble in Little China. This is why I had hoped to find an original 1985 Vespa T5, but that is a needle in a haystack in the USA, and would require finding one in the UK and importing it, which I have no desire to do. So the next best thing is to just convert my Stella to a T5. The reason for T5 headset is because it looks the most boxy mac truck look and is dated squarely in mid 1980s visual style which works great for the theme. It's also got the tinted windshield built into the headset similarly to the blue bug guard on the Pork Chop Express.

Whenever I ever get to actually completing this theme, I am going to place a tribute to Bitza on the handlebar, of his MV profile icon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeR27OP4V7U



Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:53 am quote
we share the same idea, i myself also want to build a copy of Bitsa vespa, not now maybe someday

good luck on the pork express vespa and cheer

ps: i like that movie as well
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:23 pm quote
Sean, as already mentioned, the LML handlebars work fine with a PX/Stella fork. Top and bottom covers will need some work to fit properly. Top speedo cover is crap as it comes from LML. If you're planning on painting it, it will be OK. If you're planning on leaving it as it is (black), it's crap. Try to find a NOS T5 one, although you'll probably have to pay its weight in gold. The one I found for my T5 is a NOS one, but the factory part label dried out and can't remove the F@CKING!!! glue residue. As for a speedo, there's always an option for a Dan Motors one (Ebeth could probably help you with this) which is "Piaggio" branded, of better quality and only missing the tachometer compared to an original T5 one (see photo)...

Lastly, try to order the parts asap because they're becoming "unobtainium" as days go by...

_original_speedometer_kilometer_vespa_excel_.jpg

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:42 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
Sean, as already mentioned, the LML handlebars work fine with a PX/Stella fork. Top and bottom covers will need some work to fit properly. Top speedo cover is crap as it comes from LML. If you're planning on painting it, it will be OK. If you're planning on leaving it as it is (black), it's crap. Try to find a NOS T5 one, although you'll probably have to pay its weight in gold. The one I found for my T5 is a NOS one, but the factory part label dried out and can't remove the F@CKING!!! glue residue. As for a speedo, there's always an option for a Dan Motors one (Ebeth could probably help you with this) which is "Piaggio" branded, of better quality and only missing the tachometer compared to an original T5 one (see photo)...

Lastly, try to order the parts asap because they're becoming "unobtainium" as days go by...
Yes I am afraid of that. Was planning on ordering this weekend with a few random things I will eventually notice I need as I rebuild my stella engine.

Im assuming Ebeth is Koenig blues? I would be interested in the dan motors speedo depending on the cost and shipping. Either the LML or the dan motors speedo, are the speedo cables the same I use for my LML speedo or is there a unique one for the t5 headset? I was expecting to have to modify the headset for disc brake cable and master cylinder.

Eventually I will paint the lml headset cover, but if i decide to try throwing it onto the bike before painting, I will leave it as is for the time being.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1646
Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:54 pm quote
Yes, Ebeth is "koenig blues". Speedo cable looks to be a "screw" type on both the LML and Dan Motors. Original T5 uses a clip on end. Dan Motors speedos are cheap enough (40 ~ 50 euros). Shipping is a bit pricey but only Ebeth can say for sure...
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:26 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
we share the same idea, i myself also want to build a copy of Bitsa vespa, not now maybe someday

good luck on the pork express vespa and cheer

ps: i like that movie as well
Thanks Ebeth!

I hear you have a line on dan motors t5 speedos. .

BTW, Safis.. just ordered all the rest of the parts to make this swap. Better to have them ready whenever I get around to doing it than struggling to track down "unobtanium". heh!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:13 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
The one I found for my T5 is a NOS one, but the factory part label dried out and can't remove the F@CKING!!! glue residue.
This may not help given how dried out it is, but I have always found olive oil to remove sticker glue. It works better than anything I've ever used before. It's worth a shot.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:24 am quote
JB Weld
Makin shit happen since 1968
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:57 pm quote
Re: JB Weld
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Makin shit happen since 1968


Got the speedo today and I got two surprises. I thought the guy was sending me an LML speedo, but I think I actually received an original Vespa T5 speedo. It's got over 3500 mi on the odometer. The other surprise is he sent it with the plastic cover as well.

Under a quick search, I believe this is a Vespa Excel T5 speedo. The seller said he got it by accident cause he has a MK1 T5. It appears the T5 Excel is a Dan Motors T5.. so I ended up with the Dan Motors speedo without Ebeth's help. The speedos are only slightly different in that the mk1 has speedometer markings in a semi circle and the tachometer as Safis has mentioned, whereas this one has markings in an L shape basically the same as the LML select 2 speedo with the exception of having a Piaggio logo and Vespa branding instead of LML branding. It's also got the screw mount cable as Safis has said already.

In searching for what this speedo came from, I came across a video of a T5 Excel where the guy modified the headset for disc brake with a nice shot of how he modified the handlebar. For future reference when I need to do this.

Anyone know what L, B/N, and Out are for? Im assuming L is the fuel level indicator positive coming from the Stella fuel gauge existing in the harness, B/N is the neutral positive coming from the existing harness, and Out is the ground? What connectors are needed for these?

IMG_20191129_191725.jpg

IMG_20191129_191819.jpg

T5_discbrakemod.jpg
slotted out the handlebar to fit the brake caliper.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5495
Location: Indo
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:26 pm quote
nice.. thats a excel 150cc speedo Brother S, i am late reading it, sorry
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