Selector box issues and engine buying advice
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:31 pm quote
Continued from: Bogging at first 1/4 throttle [SOLVED with new motor]

If you are rather new like me to the vintage vespa world and find yourself in need of a good running motor and see some for sale on the internet I have a few words of advice.

1. NEVER EVER buy an LML motor from Ebay/India. Total garbage. Those are not factory built motors, LML is no longer in business. A bunch of guys over there bought up LML motor inventory parts and are putting them together themselves. I got one and the crank was bent...and other issues.

When you do find a motor you want...

2. Ask the builder about his history and experience building Vespa motors and verify as much of it as you can.

3. Get references. Ask the builder/seller the names of people he has done engines for and contact them and ask them how the motor is doing.

4. ALWAYS get a video of the engine running before you pay for it that clearly shows the engine number while its running so when you get it you'll know it was the same one shown running in the video

5. Verify ignition timing


I did not do 2, 3, 4, 5 and now I am paying the price.

I have a rebuilt P200E motor from ...well...everyone knows who by now.

So far:
1: had a loose flywheel nut that sheard the flywheel key on the first kick.

2: had a cheapo India kick start lever that stripped on the 2nd day.

3: appears to have a bad cruciform after only 25 miles (it jumps out of 2nd, 3rd and 4th) OR the LML selector box that was put on it is not working well with this engine.

4: god only knows what else.

This thread will mostly be about the selector box issues and possible cruciform replacement when I am mentally able to tackle it. Right now I am completely burnt out. I spent all last summer trying to make a garbage LML motor run right only to now have a P200e that runs great but won't hold gears.

Last edited by Tradspa on Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:56 pm; edited 12 times in total
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:55 pm quote
Drama,...everyone pay attention now
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Posts: 289
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:58 pm quote
Things that could potentially cause transmission slipping

Bad selector box
loose selector spindle

A bad selector box could very well be my issue if I am lucky. I had OSC replace the original P200E box with one that doesn't have the neutral switch....little did I know that they would be replacing it with an LML one.



Last edited by Tradspa on Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:48 am; edited 2 times in total
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Posts: 289
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:23 pm quote
I may have found the culprit already. This thing has several mm of play in it. Cheap LML garbage.

44b1a5997bd4b7483169a0eb4198f7e1.jpg

Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Posts: 289
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:48 pm quote
Think this is enough play to make the transmission slip?

https://youtu.be/t71CoVw_OY0
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm quote
interesting

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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:41 pm quote
Return it...
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1110
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:52 pm quote
A PX200E engine would not be LML/Indian as such, but as you say, many of the components could be junk as they are interchangeable. Aftermarket selector boxes are notorious for being out of spec., even if they are technically correct for your motor. You may have the old vs new mismatch, or it may just be a quality issue.

That's top dollar for a supposedly 'ready to use' motor that you really should take apart and rebuild correctly. Carefully examine and measure key components as you go. Re-assembly will require the usual consumables like gaskets and possibly seals, and everything should be torqued to spec (flywheel for example).

I know this is not what you wanted to hear and I realise that a $2000 motor should just be good to go, but assuming the cases and other major components are good, you'll be ok. How much do you know about Vespas engines and do you have a good selection of tools?

.....or return it for a full refund as SaFiS said.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 am quote
I have the correct Piaggio 138880 coming and hopefully that solves the problem.

Last edited by Tradspa on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:48 am; edited 4 times in total
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:13 am quote
This engine is a VSE1M...but has no electric start. Is it a Rally 200 engine?

I see that VSE1M is also the engine code for PX200E...but all of those had electric start?

dc2627e269801f8f65d90e06df5721a0.png

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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:27 am quote
Nevermind I see that the P200E had no electric start https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Vespa/Vespa%20P200E%2077.htm
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:56 am quote
greasy125 wrote:
if i could count the number of motor rebuilds/cross jobs i've seen because of improperly ajusted cables or sloppy shift boxes y'all would be in disbelief.

check the box out for slop and get the cables adjusted properly and then reassess the situation.

best,
-greasy
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Posts: 289
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:57 am quote
phaetn wrote:
ScooterRaton wrote:
Replacing the selector box did the trick for me. I got lucky..as Eric has said there are different selector boxes for different models
Ditto for me. I used to slip so badly in second it was unusable except to downshift into it for engine braking, and I would also slip in third in the middle of the powerband when letting off and then powering on again (it was fine low down and pulling through to the max RPM, but slipped if I let off and re-applied power and mid-range RPM). It wouldn't seem like a clutch issue as things were perfectly fine in 1st and 4th.

I cracked the cases over the winter and the cruciform was fine, as were the gears. There was a lot of play in the arm of the selector box, however, so I put a new one on. No slipping at all now (yay!). I can't quite line up the dot and gears #s on the shifter, but it may because the selector box and shift tube ratio is isn't exactly 1:1 (e.g. the selector box isn't for a Super 150).

Works fine except for the dot not lining up. It prevents people wanting to ride my scoot which is fine with me.
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:36 am
NotAutomatic has been ejected from this topic
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:59 am quote
https://www.bbb.org/
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
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Location: So Cal
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:05 am quote
Ok, I donít have a dog in this fight. Iíve never dealt with the seller and I have no idea if the OP got a raw deal with this engine or what.

But this isnít the place to be slagging dealers.

MV Posting Guidelines:

ďAiring of dealer or vendor grievances -- no matter how well intentioned -- is prohibited. Modern Vespa is not the place to resolve disputes with businesses or otherwise publicly identify a business whom you allege has done something wrong.ď

If he wants help getting it up and running, great, ask away. I understand it is frustrating, but if heís just going to complain, he really should take it up with the company ... or post on yelp.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3708
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:18 am quote
Yeah I thought this would be locked already based on that but if he keeps it less about dissing and more about fixing it seeems like it might work out.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1571

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:18 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Ok, I donít have a dog in this fight. Iíve never dealt with the seller and I have no idea if the OP got a raw deal with this engine or what.

But this isnít the place to be slagging dealers.

MV Posting Guidelines:

ďAiring of dealer or vendor grievances -- no matter how well intentioned -- is prohibited. Modern Vespa is not the place to resolve disputes with businesses or otherwise publicly identify a business whom you allege has done something wrong.ď

If he wants help getting it up and running, great, ask away. I understand it is frustrating, but if heís just going to complain, he really should take it up with the company ... or post on yelp.
x10

Airing the drama over at scoot.net isn't the best place either.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 427
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:20 am quote
To be fair the advice above is generic regarding not buying LML and why. He did name the vendor in his particular case, but it hasnít been the focus of the post. And the companies that sell bodges seem to get plenty of airtime without issue. Is this not similar?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:52 am quote
My point of view, Tradspa is dissing the company in the title of the thread. That's basically saying that this is a bit more than calling out a company or individual in the bodgespotting thread.

Yelp, BBB, etc. Hell, the company pretty much hung themselves by creating an advertising thread here.

You want help, great. You want to bitch, go somewhere else. Good info on the different selector boxes though!
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:13 am quote
Calling them out is fine in the initial response and when they continually post lame advertising. It reaches it's acceptable limit when every new thread must include a dig. We get it. Doesn't take a constant reminder to be wary of them. They need better customer service. At the same time, customers also need a bit of patience and research before jumping to conclusions and threats. From someone not connected to this, it seems the mixture of both lead to an unfortunate situation for you becoming way worse.

On a positive note, your persistence and willingness to jump head first into each problem will lead to a well running scooter and the knowledge to deal with everything on your own.

Coming from someone similarly new to wrenching in general, but specifically on these bikes, i find the initial view of these repairs as daunting but once you dive head first, they tend to resolve pretty easily and with minimal effort. Persistence is key. And of course, the vast knowledge shared on MV. I've come to appreciate the slow burn of fixing these bikes. Finding a problem, building the courage to start, taking things apart, ordering the parts, waiting the week or so for delivery, building the courage to finish, then finally making the repair. So what if it takes us two or three times longer than a paid professional to complete, as long as you are learning and enjoying!
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:35 am quote
Regarding your selector box issues, i have something similar where it jumps out of second or third into neutral or has difficulty shifting into those gears out of neutral if I'm rolling when i go into neutral. I like to shift into neutral when at lights which is constant in nyc. You feel like an idiot when you can't get it back into gear and start hurriedly kicking the kick start lever to get the gear to engage and cars are impatient behind you! I have to consciously avoid neutral if creeping forward and wait till fully stopped. Sometimes it seems to happen often when driving and shifting gears. It may be a loose selector box, it may not be. I have adjusted my cables well and it got better but still shows itself occasionally. Part of me thinks it's just the ends of the cables getting caught inside the selector box preventing the shifter from seating properly because when i made the adjustment first time i saw the original owner had left excess cut in there and bent them around to tuck them in but could gather that excess would get caught up occasionally. I left it that length and tucked in because it was my first adjustment and didn't want to cut cables too short until i was confident in the adjustments. Never got around to shortening them.

After recently dialing in my carb setting much better as discussed on my fuel starvation/soft seize thread, I've noticed the shifting has gotten smoother and faster which makes me think the torque of the running engine also affects how clean the gears shift. Even with this, if I'm hesitant in the act of shifting or go into neutral while rolling the issues comes back, but less often. It is satisfying when you are in a stride and what seems like lightest deliberate touch cleanly shifts gears while "riding like you stole it" as if you are one with it!

Regarding the dots on the handle for gears, i easily adjusted the cables so neutral is centered on the dot but the accuracy softens further from the neutral dot in fourth gear. I have no issue with this as I'm not looking at the gear marks pretty much ever when riding. I do keep an eye on the neutral light when stopped to avoid that awkward difficulty shifting out of neutral into gear issue i just mentioned.

Fyi, I'm on the original lml engine and selector box that came from factory on this scooter. The bike runs great despite 14 yrs old and probably over 10k miles (speedo says 8600 cause previous owner never bothered to fix speedo gears, 7200 when i got the bike).
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:48 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I'm on the original lml engine and selector box that came from factory on this scooter.
I have a blowout sale on a brand new LML selector box for you, im sure it works fine on an LML engine, but its not working so well on a P200E.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:56 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I'm on the original lml engine and selector box that came from factory on this scooter.
I have a blowout sale on a brand new LML selector box for you, im sure it works fine on an LML engine, but its not working so well on a P200E.
. I buy new from sip/scooterworks/scooter mercato. Cause "new" is new! And also their return policies! I won't replace it until i confirm the box is the issue. For now, i deal with it!
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:05 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
It reaches it's acceptable limit when every new thread must include a dig.
all references to the seller have been removed from this thread.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:02 pm quote
Hate new gear selectors. New is often worse than old. With all the many makes, types and quality issues, each one has to be 'fitted' to each scooter. With a selection of new parts and a pile of gaskets, a decent selector can usually be made to align correctly to your gearbox. Then they work for many years but not forever

One test for really bad alignment: In neutral, gearbox lifted off the ground, spin the rear wheel and listen for clicking.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:47 am quote
Gear selector box mounting nut

8 to 10 ft lbs. very important to not go over that I am sure.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:41 am quote
Not all gaskets are created equal.
If the position of the gear selector Slide Block is important down to <1.5 mm as stated by SIP then the gasket used is going to be a factor in that.

Of the gaskets you see pictured, the green ones on the right are twice as thick as the cheapo black ones on the left. Also the torque spec of 8-to-10 ft lbs will be a factor too.

Now, guess which gasket I found on the motor? you guessed it , one of the super thin .5mm cheapo ones you see on the left. That might be all that's was wrong with it. My new FA Italia box is here and the only difference i can see with my eyes is the FA Italia one seems to have a stronger spring, but when we are dealing with 1-2mm its near impossible to eyeball a difference.

I am going to put it on with one of the good thick green gaskets on the right, torque it to spec and see what happens. I have a feeling it was just too thin of a gasket throwing the position of the slide block off. I have seen this on the little honda 80cc elite motors. as little as .5mm can mean the difference in the piston tapping the cylinder head and not.

Not all gaskets are created equal. In the case of the little 80cc honda, it was too thin of a cheapo cylinder base gasket so I added another thin cheapo base gasket and fixed it. Honda actually recommends adding or subtracting a metal head gasket to adjust piston to head clearance but I didnt have one, i only had more cheapo thin paper base gaskets. As I recall, the factory head gasket for 80cc honda elite actually consists of three .5mm metal gaskets. Obviously if i had used an OEM Honda base gasket the problem would not have occurred at all.

I wonder how many cruciform jobs were done because of something as simple as too thin of a selector box gasket? I am still not certain this is the issue, but my prior experience and SIP mentioning a very small clearance issue can cause jumping gears, I am willing to bet this is it.

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Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:39 pm quote
What????? Sorry man the thickness of a gasket will not cause your shifting problems/shorten the life of your shift cross. Youíve got bigger engine problems/ selector box problems than tenths of a mm difference on a paper gasket.

Your scooterhelp picture up mentioned the 1.5mm. Shift crosses and layshafts changed design/length over time. Do you have a flat shift cross used on newer PXs or the stepped one used on 79-81 models?
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:35 pm quote
Put the new FA Italia box on with a thick green gasket and shifts much better, rode about 5 miles. Good so far, no gear jumping.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1571

Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:16 pm quote
Tradspa,
Please don't take offence to this...we don't know what your mechanical abilities are. Nor do we know what your mechanical abilities are with a vintage Vespa engine. There are many, many different measurements, clearances, and quirks that an old Vespa engine has that isn't printed in any shop manual. A seasoned Vespa mechanic knows exactly what they are, and have invested years and years into their hobby/passion/job/way of life. Most builders have learned the hard way, but don't fuss too much about it when things go south. When i've read your posts, you give the impression that you have little to no experience with a vintage Vespa engine. There's nothing wrong with that, but you tend to jump to conclusions very, very quickly on what's causing a particular part of your engine to not work correctly, and who you think was at fault for it.

I really recommend that you find a reputable shop that's local to you to help you out with your engine build. I hate to see you burning your own hard earned money, as well as buring the reputation of a scooter dealer. I haven't had any dealings with OLY or yourself, but dang, with some of your postings, my eyes roll back in my head. I'm sure many others here have their eyes rolling as well.

As for the selector boxes, like Jack said, the new ones aren't as good...whether you bought it from OLY or if you bought it from SIP.

Sometimes an extra thick selector box gasket is used because that area is prone to leaking...same thing for the engine case as well. Other times just a paper thin gasket is used. It just all depends.

You need to verify torque on a kickstart lever...whether it's Indian made, or from Italy. Both can easily strip out. All the engines that i've dealt with get the kick start lever removed when the engine gets shipped in the mail, and the person who receives the engine has to install it.

You also need to verify initial timing on a engine, so as soon as you installed the engine (and before you try to start it up), the flywheel should have been removed and the timing checked. Then torque the flywheel to spec.

Check torque on the cylinder head nuts as well.

Coming from experience, there's a line between being stoopit (i'm not saying anyone is stoopit here) and be ignorant. I believe you're still ignorant. Staying on that side of the line is a better place to be.
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:28 pm quote
No offence taken.

Here is a sealed package of 2 selector box gaskets i found in some of my stuff. The tan one is thicker like the green ones, the blue one is half the thickness of the tan one, like the black ones. I dont think they sent me 2 different thicknesses for no reason, i dont recall ordering these at all so I cant say for sure if I ordered one or 2. I can't say for sure that the bike is fixed yet or not either but after 20 miles is shifts much better and no gear jumping...yet.

Or maybe the gasket thickness is to address the 'old px' and 'px lusso' differences of up to 1.5mm a discussed in on this page because it sure would suck to have to take the entire bike apart to address a <1.5 mm problem when you can just move the selector box and be done.

There are two different types of selector box for the motors of the PX range ďold PXĒ and ďPX LussoĒ. Often the output shaft, selector rod and selector boxes were combined in different ways. This can lead to that the gears jump. If in doubt, measure it: The position of the selector rod in 3rd gear in some of the versions can differ by up to 1.5mm. Regrettably the manufacturers production tolerances can vary. An original motor with 7 Ė 10 PS can still operate reliably under these conditions but a tuned motor requires more precision.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/selector+box+px+lusso+for_87049100

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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:18 am quote
the thin gaskets are for "px lusso"
the thick gaskets are for "old px"

I put a green old PX gasket on the LML box I took off, put it in 3rd gear and the slide block is flush with the gasket surface.

I put a black PX lusso gasket on the LML box I took off, put it in 3rd gear and the slide block has .5mm distance with the gasket surface.

(see photos)

I didnt need to buy a new selector box, i just needed to change the gasket from 'PX Lusso' (black) to a (green) 'old PX' one.

Be sure you use the right gasket with your style of selector box on your nice new fresh tight recently built transmission or you'll (MAYBE) have jumping gears like I was.

If your engine is good and worn in then a half mm distance is probably not going to make a difference but on a fresh new tight gearbox it apparently can and this is not the first time I have seen some crazy small clearances cause big problems. Did we land on the moon by saying 'dont worry about that half millimeter' ?

You all may still think I am a crazy dumb vespa engine novice and a vespa engine novice I may be, but dumb I certainly am not. There is something to this. another 20 mile ride this morning and it still shifts much better with still no gear jumping.


whodatschrome, I admire all of your experience and ability and I appreciate your insights...but i'll have to take issue with just one thing...
whodatschrome wrote:
You seem to jump to conclusions very, very quickly on what's causing a particular part of your engine to not work correctly, and who you think was at fault for it.
Who built my $2000 engine and left the flywheel nut loose the sheared the flywheel key on the first start? it certainly wasn't me. Who made it jump gears? again, not me. Who used a cheapo india kick starter but listed it as a genuine Piaggio part including the part number in the engine description that stripped the second day? again, not me.
whodatschrome wrote:
the flywheel should have been removed and the timing checked. Then torque the flywheel to spec.
ABSOLUTELY! lesson learned there. I'll never trust an 'expert engine builder' again after this. It appears you learned to not trust them as well.

Yes, I have limited experience with Vintage Vespa engines, I never claimed to. I admitted my lack of vintage vespa engine experience in the first sentence of this thread. I have only rebuilt one VBB engine and it was a success. Which is to say I put a new crank, bearings and seals in it, put it back together and it ran. Since I didnt go into the gearbox I can't really call it a 'full' rebuild.

With all due respect, how does the torque setting on the kick start lever have any bearing on 3rd and 4th gear jumping? If you had read the entire thread and the previous one (its linked) you would know the person who built this engine used a cheap india kickstarter that stripped because the bolt doesn't pass through the slot in the shaft. Another $40 to replace.

Only thing you mentioned that I havent done yet is re torque the head bolts, still dont see what effect that would have on gear jumping. This thread is about gear jumping. Yes, I do intend to re torque the head bolts soon, maybe today.

Perhaps you're just listing some 'do this first before anything else' items similar to 'check the air in the tires when you're raising the car up on the lift when changing the oil' or 'be sure to scope that bad running engine to check the plugs and wires before you go chasing what else you THINK it might be because it could be bad plugs and wires and not a dirty throttle body that you're thinking it is right now' which I recall being taught in 1989 when I was 18. if so, I agree, and I still appreciate all of your insight.

If I seem impatient and quick to jump to conclusions and want someone to blame, you're right. I do. I spent all last summer trying to make a junk LML engine with a bent crank and a cracked case run right. I didnt know it had a bent crank and a cracked case until the end of the saga. Of course since then I have learned that it was sold to me that way and the seller knew it, there was someone to blame and it was the junk ebay seller. IMO bodge sellers from SEA and LML engine sellers from India all need banned from ebay.

What I wanted THIS summer is a drop in ready to run no hassle engine. I spent $2000 to make that happen, and it didnt happen. Even https://www.vespmoto.de/shop-english/ uses Pinasco master cases (on everything but the $10k 306cc) which I hear are problematic. I am beginning to think there is no such thing as a ready to run bolt in engine for classic vespa.

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Last edited by Tradspa on Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:19 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:21 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
One test for really bad alignment: In neutral, gearbox lifted off the ground, spin the rear wheel and listen for clicking.
I have already changed the gear selector with an 'old px' style selector box and correct 1.5mm gasket. I wish I had done this test before I changed it.

But I did this test after and here is the result:

You said put it in neutral, listen for clicking when spinning the back tire by hand.

I hear it but it is VERY faint. I have to wait until no cars are going by my house, no wind in the trees, no nothing. when it's completely silent around me, i can BARELY hear it . I have done it several times. Once it was raining and i could not hear it for the rain on my shop roof. Another time I had to wait for a train horn to stop. if it's COMPLETELY silent around me, i faintly hear it.

If i twist the gear shifter one way or the other very slowly while continuing to spin the back tire by hand the clicking gets louder and louder until it eventually jumps into gear.

seems okay, yes?

Thanks for the help Jack.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:27 pm quote
I am dying to do another test

Change the thick green gasket to a thin black one which would therefore move the slide block IN 1mm therefore moving the selector spindle IN 1mm therefore moving the shifting cross IN 1mm and see how loud the clicking is then and how quick it jumps into gear when i twist the gear shifter. I am betting it will be louder and would probably catch the next gear with much less force on the shifter.....

...and jump gears while driving.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:43 pm quote
I often think things are a bit obvious and assume others do too. I know I have this issue.
When in neutral the cruicform is sitting in a space between 1st and 2nd cogs. It shouldn't be touching either gear in neutral. If it is touching it will click when the wheel is spun. First work out if the clicking is from 1st or 2nd then add or remove gaskets of various thicknesses, until it is as quiet as possible.
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:52 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
add or remove gaskets of various thicknesses, until it is as quiet as possible.
Yep, this all reminds of me GM starter shims. Cheers Jack!

47efd98f0ccbd8d773f9a32c836a6e74.png

Hooked
2001 LML 150
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Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:35 pm quote
How the loose gears are shimmed would also have an effect on where the neutral sits, correct?
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'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
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Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:45 pm quote
I would think so.
Hooked
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Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:33 pm quote
A lot of these issues sound familiar. The lack of instructions with packets of bits... clearly people have figured these issues in that they make these fixes... but just arenít clear about it all.

The lack of tightening the nut etc sucks tho.
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