Picked up my MP3
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Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:48 am quote
Got it yesterday.

Having a good time riding, even if it is a little cold.

FB_IMG_1554933564318.jpg
Me at the dealership

IMG_20190410_164102.jpg
At dealership

Addicted
2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his)
Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Posts: 549
Location: Vermont
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:29 am quote
Congrats! Have fun! Dress warm!
Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:16 am quote
wbdvt wrote:
Congrats! Have fun! Dress warm!
45 F /7.2 C was the temp when I took it out at lunch. Need warm clothes for sure.

it is now 50F/10C so it is a heat wave.
Addicted
2019 MP3 500 HPE Business
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 797
Location: Paris - France
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:05 pm quote
wbdvt wrote:
Congrats!
+1 and ride safe !!
Hooked
2016 MP3 500cc Sport ABS
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 290
Location: Lombard, Il
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:00 pm quote
Beautiful ride. Enjoy
Hooked
2019 MP3 500hpe
Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 401
Location: Germany
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:35 am quote
Liking that Matte Black.

I am waiting on my 1000km service, so no riding at the moment.

Snowed today too

Waiting for the warmer weather to really enjoy riding and rack up those miles.
Member
2016 BV350 ABS
Joined: 17 Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:10 am quote
Glad to see another Jersey scooterist! Enjoy!
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4174
Location: Marietta, GA
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 am quote
Just curious, did you happen to check the oil on the dip stick before leaving the dealer? Was wondering it it was at Full Mark, or is it on the Low side.

Thanks,
Keith
Marietta, GA
Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:46 pm quote
BDubs wrote:
Glad to see another Jersey scooterist! Enjoy!
Monmouth County.

Road to SAndy Hook Last week!!
Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:48 pm quote
klaborde wrote:
Just curious, did you happen to check the oil on the dip stick before leaving the dealer? Was wondering it it was at Full Mark, or is it on the Low side.

Thanks,
Keith
Marietta, GA
Sorry I did not see this until I now.

I think I see a small amount of oil on the floor under my scooter. Need to take a closer look and make sure it is not leaking.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4174
Location: Marietta, GA
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:03 am quote
Finn wrote:
klaborde wrote:
Just curious, did you happen to check the oil on the dip stick before leaving the dealer? Was wondering it it was at Full Mark, or is it on the Low side.

Thanks,
Keith
Marietta, GA
Sorry I did not see this until I now.

I think I see a small amount of oil on the floor under my scooter. Need to take a closer look and make sure it is not leaking.
There is a black piece of tubing next to oil filter.
I get a drip every now and then on my 2016 ABS.
That is probably what you see.

When I picked mine up back in 2015, the Dealer told me the bikes come filled from Piaggio, they don't do anything with the oil. I pulled the dipstick on 4 new 2016 MP3/500's, and they were all at 1/2 way mark. I was just curious if you checked yours.

Thanks,
Keith
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:27 am quote
@klaborde thats a leaking seal inside the waterpump


@finn where is it leaking?
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500 2016
Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Posts: 101
Location: Chicago
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:59 pm quote
Nice ride. Enjoy riding along the Jersey Shore.
Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:56 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
@klaborde thats a leaking seal inside the waterpump


@finn where is it leaking?
See the image.

Leak is worse than I thought. Going to take it to dealership.

IMG_20190419_130237.jpg

Addicted
2019 MP3 500 HPE Business
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 797
Location: Paris - France
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:18 pm quote
I'm surprised you don't have the new muffler on your HPE 2019 ???

In Europe we have :

silencieux-piaggio-mp3-500-hpe-sport_hd.jpg

Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:12 pm quote
frcx94 wrote:
I'm surprised you don't have the new muffler on your HPE 2019 ???

In Europe we have :
For some reason, after Piaggio announced the 500 sport hpe coming to the United States https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/news-list/Piaggio-MP3-Sport-500-3-Wheel-Scooter-Arrives-in-USA/ the ones they have actually been selling don't have the new hpe engine. This explains the older muffler.

The engine they come with (including the one I just bought) is the previous, less powerful, non-hpe, version. The rest of the scooter is the new model. On their web site, Piaggio US titles the scooter "MP3 Sport 500" https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/models/mp3-range/piaggio-mp3-sport/piaggio-mp3-sport-500hpe/ but the pictures show the hpe badge and the newer muffler.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:55 am quote
looks like a blown flywheelcover gasget

And piaggio USA needs to sell there old stock first same story as the older version mp3's
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:38 am quote
Maksor wrote:
looks like a blown flywheelcover gasget

And piaggio USA needs to sell there old stock first same story as the older version mp3's
I don't think it's old stock, Maksor. More like a frankenbike - a new model with an old engine. The manual that came with it doesn't even match the scooter. Plus, they advertised it with the new HPE engine and badged it that way as well.
Hooked
MP3 500 LT " Matilda"
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 109
Location: west Germany
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:31 am quote
Leak
Finn wrote:
Maksor wrote:
@klaborde thats a leaking seal inside the waterpump


@finn where is it leaking?
See the image.

Leak is worse than I thought. Going to take it to dealership.
Awwwww!!! I was thinking of getingelt one myself! Didn't know they'd be so inconinent!!!!
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:34 am quote
mpfrank wrote:
Maksor wrote:
looks like a blown flywheelcover gasget

And piaggio USA needs to sell there old stock first same story as the older version mp3's
I don't think it's old stock, Maksor. More like a frankenbike - a new model with an old engine. The manual that came with it doesn't even match the scooter. Plus, they advertised it with the new HPE engine and badged it that way as well.
Piaggio Starts production of new models in September after the summer vacations

So the new HPE is produced in 2017 piaggio dumps there old stock of part to Wholesales companies bought a few engines of them ultra cheap 650 for a 500cc 106 euro for Fuoco frames

They don't build the old models any more so it most be old stock see older post here people posted the got there new 250 in 2009 with the grill from the 06 model in 2010 or 11 the US did get the newer grill

The 2018 model got wave brakedisks on the front other exhaust and so on
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:02 pm quote
Hi Maksor,

My point is that Piaggio was advertising, selling, and badging these as having the more powerful HPE engine and they don't.

The rest of the scooter is up to date, including the new colors: matte green, matte black, and glossy light gray.

As far as I know, there is no older model just like these. The previous model (2018 in the U.S.) has a different windscreen, shocks, etc.

I think Piaggio has a problem.

Here is the announcement of the new model:

https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/news-list/Piaggio-MP3-Sport-500-3-Wheel-Scooter-Arrives-in-USA/

"The Piaggio MP3 500 versions have multimap “Ride-by-Wire” and are powered by a 4-valve single-cylinder, liquid cooled engine that creates 44.2 horsepower at the shaft."

Last edited by mpfrank on Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Member
Vespa Primavera 150 (2019)/Mp3 Sport 500 HPE (2019)
Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:20 pm quote
mpfrank wrote:
Hi Maksor,

My point is that Piaggio was advertising, selling, and badging these as having the more powerful HPE engine and they don't.

The rest of the scooter is up to date, including the new colors: matte green, matte black, and glossy light gray.

As far as I know, there is no older model just like these. The previous model (2018 in the U.S.) has a different windscreen, shocks, etc.

I think Piaggio has a problem.

Here is the announcement of the new model:

https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/news-list/Piaggio-MP3-Sport-500-3-Wheel-Scooter-Arrives-in-USA/
Great point. I got this for the more powerful engine.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:46 pm quote
thats what i'm saying Piaggio USA rebadged old stock and changed the disks and springs
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:57 am quote
Maksor wrote:
thats what i'm saying Piaggio USA rebadged old stock and changed the disks and springs
Sadly not the case, Maksor. The scooter is completely the new model but with the old engine. It was also advertised and badged as the HPE model when it isn't. Please refer to my last post.
Hooked
2016 MP3 500 Sport ABS
Joined: 08 Sep 2017
Posts: 245
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:30 pm quote
I'd be PISSED if I bought a new 2019 and got one with the previous engine! when you buy something new it should be as advertised!
Hooked
MP3 500 LT " Matilda"
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 109
Location: west Germany
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:27 pm quote
71Brent wrote:
I'd be PISSED if I bought a new 2019 and got one with the previous engine! when you buy something new it should be as advertised!
I agree with 71Brent!!!!!!
Hooked
2019 MP3 500hpe
Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 401
Location: Germany
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:15 am quote
I see the transmission front part is different too.
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:23 am quote
new200guy wrote:
I see the transmission front part is different too.
Yes. It's the entire old drive train. This wouldn't be a problem, just the usual USA being a third-world country in regards to scooters, except for several issues.

Piaggio advertised that the new HPE models were here for 2019, then they sold the new model with the old engines installed - still advertising them as having "14% more power" and badged "HPE" in the ads and on at least some of the scooters. BTW, this is not an older model that was sold in Europe. We got that model through 2018. To my knowledge, this configuration has never been sold anywhere else. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Weirdly, the manual is a two-year-old 500 LT 500 i.e. manual that has the wrong windscreen, shocks, mirrors, and even the wrong tire pressures (which could be dangerous). The shock adjuster wrench doesn't fit the new shocks, nor are there instructions for adjusting them.

As I said, there are already unhappy MP3 owners and Piaggio has a problem.

Now, I want to add that I have been an MP3 owner since 2007 (250, 400, 500) and have loved all of them, including my new one. I've ridden over 40,000 miles on them. I have been a very positive MV member that entire time and am not someone just logging on to complain. I am just finding this issue disheartening.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:35 am quote
What is the framenumber of the bike

MP3 500 IE RL ABS E3-E4 2015-2018 (NAFTA)... 2015-2018
Piaggio (E3-M863M E4-TA12M) USA ETRT000US2>4 Canada ETRT000CA3-4 ZAPM860X ZAPTA10W is old stock

MP3 500 ie LT Sport-Business E4 2016-2018 (EMEA)... 2016-2018 Piaggio (TA12M) Israel ETRS000IL4 W.V.T.A. NTRS000U17>23 ZAPTA1200 ZAPTA1201

MP3 500 HPE Maxi Sport-Business ABS E4 2018 (EMEA)... 2018 Piaggio (TA13M) NTRS000U25 NTRS000U26 NTRS000U27 NTRS000U28 ZAPTA1202
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5034
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:47 am quote
Finn wrote:
Maksor wrote:
@klaborde thats a leaking seal inside the waterpump


@finn where is it leaking?
See the image.

Leak is worse than I thought. Going to take it to dealership.
Could just be a loose oil filter.
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:31 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
What is the framenumber of the bike

MP3 500 IE RL ABS E3-E4 2015-2018 (NAFTA)... 2015-2018
Piaggio (E3-M863M E4-TA12M) USA ETRT000US2>4 Canada ETRT000CA3-4 ZAPM860X ZAPTA10W is old stock

MP3 500 ie LT Sport-Business E4 2016-2018 (EMEA)... 2016-2018 Piaggio (TA12M) Israel ETRS000IL4 W.V.T.A. NTRS000U17>23 ZAPTA1200 ZAPTA1201

MP3 500 HPE Maxi Sport-Business ABS E4 2018 (EMEA)... 2018 Piaggio (TA13M) NTRS000U25 NTRS000U26 NTRS000U27 NTRS000U28 ZAPTA1202
Hi Maksor,

Thanks for responding.

This is getting curiouser and curiouser. The VIN is ZAPTA10W. (When I open the little door in the pet carrier to find the frame number as it says to on page 100 of the manual, there is nothing on the frame.) When I google MP3 500 IE RL ABS E3-E4 2015-2018 (NAFTA) I get this:

https://www.easyparts.nl/choosedrawings/15/24708/333A/0-4019-1-m420-m2091-m11537-m24708-s29159/Originele-Onderdelen-Piaggio-MP3-500-IE-RL-ABS-E3-E4-2015-2018-(NAFTA).html

That is not my scooter. Mine has the newer seat and windscreen with four mounting grommets. Also the new glossy gray color.

So, now, it looks like the MP3 500 Sport i.e. is the new body with a two-year-old engine. Bear in mind that Piaggio US has been advertising this scooter as having "14% more power" which can only refer to the HPE engine.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 am quote
the 14% is for the 350hpe in comparission with the 300

the hpe 500 has 42.7 thats 1 hp more then the older one

then the hpe should have 47.5 hp if its 14% and it isn't it is 1.35% more

And again Piaggio italy stopped producing the older engine in sep/october 2017 due to the software fraud in vehicleland all vehicles did have to pass a new Euro4 test in Europe

the m86 and TA10w where produced from 2015 till 2018
the HPE should have a vin starting with zapTA1203
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Wed May 01, 2019 6:26 am quote
Hi Maksor,

The MP3 350 has never been sold in the US, so it is not relevant. The previous 500 cc engine produces 38.8 horsepower, the HPE is advertised at 44.2 horsepower. This is a 13.9 percent increase. So, 14 percent.

It seems that Piaggio decided to put the leftover 2017 engines in the new 2019 US models even though they had advertised that they would have the new 44.2 horsepower HPE engines.

I didn't know about the software fraud. This reminds me of the Volkswagen diesel scandal. We all know how that turned out.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4020
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed May 01, 2019 12:36 pm quote
there are no leftover older engines Piaggio Italy did dump them all at the end of 2017 beginning of 2018 i bought a few of them

and the old 500 did have 41.3 HP 29.7 on the rearwheel


Gilera Fuoco 500 I.E
Scheda tecnica
Motore Monocilindrico MASTER 4 tempi
Cilindrat 493 cc
Alesaggio 94 mm
Corsa 71 mm
Potenza max all’albero 41.3 CV a 7.250 rpm
Coppia max 46,5 Nm a 5.200 rpm
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Wed May 01, 2019 5:51 pm quote
Maksor, I think that part of our confusion comes from the difference between U.S and European horsepower. They are not quite equivalent. 100 kilowatts equal 134 U.S. or 136 metric horsepower. So our numbers will not exactly match up. The kilowatt numbers, of course, will.

The specs in the ads for the 2019 MP3 500 Sport in the US say "Power: 38.8 hp (28.5 kW) @ 7,250 rpm". The manual that came with my 2019 MP3 Sport says "Max power 28.5 kW".

But the ads also say "New engine, new performance: Performance and efficiency are the standout characteristics of the new single-cylinder 500 HPE (High Performance Engine). It boasts an increase in performance of around 14% compared to the previous 500cc" (not the 350). It does say that the power is 38.8 horsepower, which makes no sense, because the 500cc engine has been 39 horsepower, more or less, since it was first introduced on the BV 500 and the Gilera Fuoco.

A 13.9 percent increase from 38.8 is 44.2, which is the exact horsepower Piaggio advertised in the the August 7, 2018 official announcement (which has now been removed, but I downloaded a copy).

"25/07/2018
2019 Piaggio MP3 Sport 500 to America"

"The Piaggio MP3 500 versions have multimap “Ride-by-Wire” and are powered by a 4-valve single-cylinder, liquid cooled engine that creates 44.2 horsepower at the shaft. The engine was revamped to achieve higher performance and optimal fuel consumption."

It appears that Piaggio intended to bring the HPE version to the US, but for some reason did not and tried to fix their ads, but left them with a mix of old and new conflicting information. I'm only speculating, of course.

Here is an example of the conflicting information: http://vespaportland.com/scooters/piaggio/2019-piaggio-mp3-sport-500-sport-hpe/

Note the info in the paragraph, "NEW ENGINE, NEW PERFORMANCE" (around 14 percent increase - 38.8 horsepower). Then compare to the specifications on the right side (44.2 horsepower).

Now let's see if that ad is changed or removed.

BTW, if someone from Piaggio US is reading these posts, please respond.

Last edited by mpfrank on Wed May 01, 2019 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Wed May 01, 2019 6:29 pm quote
I am aware that this discussion could be perceived as "airing a grievance". This is not my intent. I am also not happy about going down a rabbit hole with Maksor, whom I respect.

It's just that I think that Piaggio has made a big mistake here and I would like them to clear it up. I did buy an MP3 500 Sport which is badged HPE, so I thought that was what I was getting. I am not the only one. BTW, I am not blaming the dealer, someone whom I also like and respect.

I think I have shared all the information I want to at this point, so I won't be posting on this thread again unless something significant comes up.
Ossessionato
2019 MP3 SPORT 500 IE
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3813
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Mon May 06, 2019 12:48 pm quote
mispost
Member
Joined: 07 May 2019
Posts: 5

Fri May 10, 2019 4:26 am quote
Is the exhaust difference key indicator of hpe vs not hpe?
Hi everyone,

I was thinking of upgrading to the new 2019 MP3 500 sport hpe this weekend, but after reading this thread, am concerned about the engine not being hpe as advertised. Is this exhaust the key indicator of installed engine being old stock (not hpe) vs new stock (hpe)? I will go inspect the bike again in person upon your response. Please let me know. Advertised photo of two local 2019 MP3’s show old exhaust, so presumably old engine, not hpe.

If VIN doesn’t start with zapTA1203, it is not hpe engine???

Thanks for responding quickly. I had planned to purchase tomorrow! May wait for real hpe engine or switch to Honda CTX700 instead... advice welcome!

97B3365C-4648-4667-B9B4-C30ED60905C3.jpeg

8A112D16-82CC-470A-BAEE-B0E5584735AD.jpeg

Hooked
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 210
Location: England
Fri May 10, 2019 5:03 am quote
Re: Is the exhaust difference key indicator of hpe vs not hp
slomo_scooterbabe wrote:
Hi everyone,

I was thinking of upgrading to the new 2019 MP3 500 sport hpe this weekend, but after reading this thread, am concerned about the engine not being hpe as advertised. Is this exhaust the key indicator of installed engine being old stock (not hpe) vs new stock (hpe)? I will go inspect the bike again in person upon your response. Please let me know. Advertised photo of two local 2019 MP3’s show old exhaust, so presumably old engine, not hpe.

If VIN doesn’t start with zapTA1203, it is not hpe engine???

Thanks for responding quickly. I had planned to purchase tomorrow! May wait for real hpe engine or switch to Honda CTX700 instead... advice welcome!
This looks like the old 40hp motor and exhaust

The newer motor 44hp has got a twin exit pipe
Member
Joined: 07 May 2019
Posts: 5

Fri May 10, 2019 5:12 am quote
Re: Is the exhaust difference key indicator of hpe vs not hp
Thanks so much!
Brasseye wrote:
slomo_scooterbabe wrote:
Hi everyone,

I was thinking of upgrading to the new 2019 MP3 500 sport hpe this weekend, but after reading this thread, am concerned about the engine not being hpe as advertised. Is this exhaust the key indicator of installed engine being old stock (not hpe) vs new stock (hpe)? I will go inspect the bike again in person upon your response. Please let me know. Advertised photo of two local 2019 MP3’s show old exhaust, so presumably old engine, not hpe.

If VIN doesn’t start with zapTA1203, it is not hpe engine???

Thanks for responding quickly. I had planned to purchase tomorrow! May wait for real hpe engine or switch to Honda CTX700 instead... advice welcome!
This looks like the old 40hp motor and exhaust

The newer motor 44hp has got a twin exit pipe
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