My new motor for the VBA
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
Author Message
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:13 pm quote
I finally had some time to pull out all my new motor bits and inspect them. Major components are LML cases, Pinasco aluminum cylinder and 60mm crank, electronic ignition, pinasco touring exhaust, and a 26/26 carb. Iíll get started assembling it as soon as possible. I donít get much free time at the moment though, so progress has been slow.

F1115E18-3A22-4BB3-BB60-B514874FFC71.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:26 pm quote
Nice one. What gearbox are you using in that Tyson?
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:22 pm quote
Thanks Ginch. Itís P200 with overdriven primary to suit the 8Ē wheels.
Hooked
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 248
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:32 am quote
Tyson wrote:
overdriven primary to suit the 8Ē wheels.
can you elaborate on what that means exactly?
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:54 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
Tyson wrote:
overdriven primary to suit the 8Ē wheels.
can you elaborate on what that means exactly?
Because of the smaller 8Ē wheels on the VBA the final drive needs to be higher to go the same speed as a 10Ē scooter at the same RPM. I forget what ratio I went with, but I chose it for city riding. I wonít be doing much freeway driving on it. Ginch is the one who actually warned me to look into this. Iím used to motorbikes where you can just change the sprockets as needed. Itís a lot more work to swap ratios on a Vespa if you donít get it right.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:57 am quote
Typing at the same time sorry!
I think he means it has a long primary (often called a 'gear-up kit') to make up for the gearing down with the 8's.

I had thought you might be trying to fit the VBA gears into the case... can be done but what you're doing will be a far better outcome, along with more readily available parts.
I see you have the Pinasco exhaust. Give some thought to selling it on and fitting a different one while it's still new - the Polini "original box" is currently looking like the best choice. I understand that from a newbie's perspective, it makes sense to stick with the same brand because they are designed to work together. More often than not it simply isn't the case - the manufacturers sometimes simply make sure they have at least one of evrything across their range. The Pinasco exhaust came up pretty ordinary in testing tbh.

Do you have one of the Pinasco front drum brakes in your box of goodies? I have friends who have fitted it to their 8" models and they say they are very very good. The stock one is just frightening... especially with a 177.
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:47 am quote
Thanks Ginch. I agree, the VBA gears arenít worth fitting into the new motor. If Iím in for a penny Iím in for a pound. Moderation has never been a skill of mine. Haha. Iíll look into the exhaust. I wish Iíd know about the issues before I got it. How much better are the pinasco brakes? Is it just a better drum? Iíll look into that too. I did get a large order from Scooter centre already, but Iíll chuck these on the list for the next order.
Hooked
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 248
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:13 am quote
Tyson wrote:
Tradspa wrote:
Tyson wrote:
overdriven primary to suit the 8Ē wheels.
can you elaborate on what that means exactly?
Because of the smaller 8Ē wheels on the VBA the final drive needs to be higher to go the same speed as a 10Ē scooter at the same RPM. I forget what ratio I went with, but I chose it for city riding. I wonít be doing much freeway driving on it. Ginch is the one who actually warned me to look into this. Iím used to motorbikes where you can just change the sprockets as needed. Itís a lot more work to swap ratios on a Vespa if you donít get it right.
Yes, I just meant what ratio. Sorry I should have been more specific in my question.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1384
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 am quote
Thatís a really nice pile of parts. I agree with Michael on the exhaust. If you do go for the Polini, Officina Tonazzo has currently the best price in Europe, although, I think the shipping costs will be prohibitive for your part of the world. Also, that SI26/26, is a bit too much for the LML reeds and will be a bitch to dial in. I had one from BGM and I never managed to make it work properly with my Malossi 221 build...

Weíll be waiting for updates

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Marmitta-Polini-Original-per-Vespa-PX-125-150/222862511523?hash=item33e3a40da3:g:J4oAAOSwPfhblrVp
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:19 pm quote
Tyson wrote:
Iíll look into the exhaust. I wish Iíd know about the issues before I got it.
You can always ask the question here. From what I've read the Polini will add significantly to what you have... although you will miss out on the comparison!
Tyson wrote:
How much better are the pinasco brakes? Is it just a better drum? Iíll look into that too. I did get a large order from Scooter centre already, but Iíll chuck these on the list for the next order.
My friend Rolf built a VB1 with a Pinasco 160 motor... a guy pulled out on him and he hit the side and went over the top. On crutches for 6 months. He said at the time if he had been on the VBA with its disc brake he would have avoided it. Later they brought out the Pinasco drum and he fitted it. Not as good as a disc he says but not that far behind either.
Your VBA will be capable of around 110km/h, your original drum will look like a meteorite burning up as it enters the atmostphere. But with far less braking force than air!



https://www.scooter-center.com/en/pn26280200/front-brake-hub-8-pinasco-highbrake-vespa-wideframe-v1-15-v30-33-vu-vm-vn-vl-vb-acma-hoffmann-largeframe-vba-vbb-vna-vnb

I thought they sold matching shoes... but doesn't look like it. I can ask Rolf for you which ones he is using?
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:50 pm quote
Thanks Ginch. Theyíre on the list of bits to order. Which one of you guys do I blame when my wife sees the invoice? When I get home tonight Iíll check the gears. I still canít remember what I went with.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:29 am quote
The great thing about scooter parts, is they are super cheap! You can buy practically a whole motor for about $150. Honest, sweetheart!



Theres the old joke... when I die, somebody please stop my wife from selling everything for what I told her I bought it for.
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:56 pm quote
What sort of gap should I expect for the gearbox with no spacers in it? Iíve assembled the gears to measure and order the right spacers for adjusting the end float, but Iím getting a larger gap than Iíd have expected. Itís 4.45mm. I double checked the gears are on the right way, and Iím pretty sure they are. Is this normal? All parts are new, not flogged out.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:02 am quote
Yeah that's pretty massive. You're 100% sure they are around the right way?

http://modernvespa.com/forum/post1724844#1724844

What drive shaft and gears did you order? Just like to check there is not a wrong one in there.
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:18 am quote
Iíll double check again in tomorrow, but Iím pretty sure. All the parts are P-200. Unless they packaged some wrong parts in there.

669BF9E8-AB39-43B1-9B47-DA1C65FCEEE0.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:22 am quote
Tyson wrote:
Iíll double check again in tomorrow, but Iím pretty sure. All the parts are P-200. Unless they packaged some wrong parts in there.
Want to dig out the part numbers on your order? Is it an EFL shaft and gears?
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:44 am quote
I donít have the part numbers on the order, and the packages only label which gear it is, and P200. Iíll see how I go checking the orientation and measuring it tomorrow. What would be the normal range of shimming? I see on here most seem to have one or 2 shims.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:15 am quote
Tyson wrote:
I donít have the part numbers on the order, and the packages only label which gear it is, and P200. Iíll see how I go checking the orientation and measuring it tomorrow. What would be the normal range of shimming? I see on here most seem to have one or 2 shims.
The ones I've dealt with have been about 1.5 maximum.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1384
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:37 am quote
Measure your gears to see what kind of box youíve got. Also, check your axle type (old PX or EFL/Lusso). You have to check your gap with the spacers you already have. Piaggio suggests a gap of 0.15mm to 0.40mm. So if your gap is e.g. 0.55mm then youíll need to add 0.15mm to 0.40mm to the thickness of your current spacer. If the spacer is 2.0mm youíll need a new one ranging from 2.15mm to 2.40mm. I usually shim my boxes to 0.20mm...

Check page 3 on the following link...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/main/base/details/Download.aspx?ID=86121f4f-3da5-4d52-bbc5-00d5d904a8f1

And also this...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/main/base/details/Download.aspx?ID=689e05b7-22e9-4dcd-881b-35ae4040169b
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:36 pm quote
The axle and cruciform all look to be PX Luso. Iíll measure the gears tonight to confirm they match. The SIP link shows a spacer on the top and bottom. Most diagrams Iíve seen show only the top. My parts came with 2 spacers just like the exploded view on page 3, but I was going to use both on the top to adjust endplay. Should I be doing it like SIP shows, then adding more to adjust the endplay?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1384
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:08 pm quote
If you have an EFL/Lusso axle, spacers should be installed top and bottom. You canít put them in one side only. The bottom one should be 1mm and you shim the gap with the top one...

Also...
https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-px-gear-selector-boxes-part-1-workshop/

F94331B3-C0E4-410A-B91A-BF2A81BE4BC2.jpeg

Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:07 am quote
I put it all back together with the 2 spacers in place and measured again. The gap is 1.2mm. Not too bad. The spacers and circlips provided are not very good quality. The spacers are cupped, the end float changes a lot depending on how I orient them and the clips are quite thin and loose in the groves they locate in. Iím going to buy some better quality spacers and circlips and do it all again.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:42 pm quote
Sounds like a good idea! Shame you got crappy ones to begin with... they all look perfect on the websites...

I find once you've assembled them it's worth putting it alongside the xmas tree and seeing how well they align.
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Sat May 04, 2019 1:53 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
...Also, that SI26/26, is a bit too much for the LML reeds and will be a bitch to dial in. I had one from BGM and I never managed to make it work properly with my Malossi 221 build...
While Iím putting a parts order in, what reed setup would you guys suggest? I was thinking of porting the lml valve and adding boyesen reeds. Iíve done a search on here, but there seems to be a million opinions.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue May 07, 2019 1:05 am quote
I guess just try the stock LML reeds to begin with. You can also have a go at modifying the reed block - they are cheap enough to have a spare or two. Also you can buy reed material and cut your own. There is some good info on this on the LML owners forum - http://lmlocgb.co.uk/phpBB3/
Member
VBA
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 39
Location: Geelong, Australia
Wed May 15, 2019 11:49 pm quote
The postman brought some goodies yesterday. The new circlips and BGM spacers made things go together much nicer. Iím going to move onto porting and port timing next. I just need to get the body off to the panel beater first, then Iíll focus on the motor again.

69C6B60E-C03C-44DF-A2ED-0983FD460574.jpeg

Missouri Loves Company Rally   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Cool Ass scooter seat cover
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
[ Time: 0.3014s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0551s) ][ Debug on ]