OP
@fledermaus avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@fledermaus avatar
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
UTC quote
I know this has been discussed previously, but for those new to the art, this is a pretty good recent article.

I like the "heaven or hell" terminology. I've been on rides that worked seamlessly, and occasionally on those I'd rather not repeat. I haven't run into planning/leadership issues much, but have noticed that other riders make or break it for me. I know most riders have an independent streak, but successful group riding requires acting as part of a group...riding predictably, even spacing, etc, etc. When people do their part well, it makes for a great ride. When not, I'd rather be alone-which is probably a good part of people wanting nothing to do with group rides.

At any rate, here's the article for your perusal:

https://www.roadrunner.travel/2019/04/12/group-riding-its-either-heaven-or-hell/?fbclid=IwAR3iDGO3sUCEeZHHNZo3IOLIVfrYR99n6mhd6kn82Ht-lJ44TRI8s1pgapw
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
 
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
UTC quote
I have done group rides that went OK and I enjoy the camaraderie of fellow riders. Generally speaking I'm not a group rider, more of a lone wolf, e.g., my three extended Mexico rides were solo except the first and that guys riding style was to see how fast you can get from A to B? Not how I tour, so I split with him.
This stuff I see where the riding group does the left right crap is not at all to my liking. IMO, a good group leader does his ride while allowing catchups of other riders at strategic spots.
I did a small group ride in VA last fall and didn't know the guy who lead the group but had set it up via a rider I did know from previous rides, etc.. The leader rodea unsafely fast on rural backroads and seemed ticked off when i came along. I gotta say the group had some new riders to me and they were a bit uppity toward the Vespa I was on. I lost them late in the afternoon and found the guy that had been in front of me who had also lost the group. he was from that area and a regular in the group. I emailed my buddy later from home and asked what the hell? He said blank always rides too fast and always wired to tight too. Know your group or don't do it is best if possible.
Groups need to allow riders to ride "their ride", not act like it some sort of military parade event.
Honestly, for the most part why have someone else plan where YOU are going? I'm social but not THAT social. I lack lemming DNA. When our 3 sons played ball in HS some parents followed the school bus same as some folks ride in groups, like they need a leader to get somewhere...
@bob_copeland avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
 
Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Group Riding
Dave,

Thanks for posting info on group riding. I have been riding with a group for
12 years and really enjoy it. There are published guidelines for group riding.

Bob Copeland
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
I'm totally a lone wolf. I deal with people all the time because of what I do so riding is to me a break from it all. Just me and either a podcast or music playing through the Sena . Please no mentions of the Sena being a dangerous thing to use. We do not need that debate here.
@caschnd1 avatar
UTC

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5345
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
 
Grumpy Biker
@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5345
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
UTC quote
Nope. No group rides for me. I've never been on a group ride that I enjoyed. I like to ride until I feel like stopping and then stop. Sometimes that might be frequent stops for photos and sight seeing and other times it might mean 700 miles in a day.

-Craig
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
Nope. No group rides for me. I've never been on a group ride that I enjoyed. I like to ride until I feel like stopping and then stop. Sometimes that might be frequent stops for photos and sight seeing and other times it might mean 700 miles in a day.

-Craig
Glad to see I have company so to speak

I'd be curious to her from a few that do enjoy it and why. I mean you could always just walk to meet friends at the pub and then well...beer.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43354
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43354
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
That's a pretty good article. I do have one 'nit' though - it makes a bit of a mess of marking turns. You can't rely on each and every rider to check that they can see the rider behind them, and to wait if they can't. Some will inevitably take the turn and forget, or wait just out of sight enough that the rider behind doesn't spot them.

Far better to use the 'Marker' system (aka second-rider drop-off) as advanced riders including the UK Police use. At *every* turn or roundabout, the second rider behind the leader stops in a safe but conspicuous position to show all following riders the new direction. They then rejoin the group just before the sweeper.

If the leader finds that (s)he's not got anyone in second place, then (s)he'll pull over and wait until the ride regroups.

This method means that each rider can ride their own ride, without feeling they have to keep up, or keep the person in front in sight.

I've successfully led rides with large numbers using this method over many years - the largest with 70 London Bikers on a day-trip to France.
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
I have ridden in groups for decades.
I have led groups, swept groups and just been in the peloton.
I also ride solo.
Even in a group, you still ride your own ride, just with others along too.

Group riding is just the same as driving in traffic.
If you do not have the self discipline of staying in your lane it is chaos.
The only difference is that on a motorcycle, you turn a single auto lane into two motorcycle lanes, without a lane indicator line between them.

Riding in groups follows two basic rules:
1, DO NOT ride into the bike in front of you.
2. DO NOT ride into the bike next to you.

Everything else is road traffic common sense - following distances, passing, changing lanes...

As a group on prepared route rides, we use the "second rider drop off" on all rides and it really works well. A group is able to move smoothly and safely through the route without asking directions. It allows one to participate without having to do a lot of route planning. The biggest group I have led was over 90 motorcycles and NOBODY got lost, despite traffic lights, turns and roundabouts... and we didn't (illegally) stop traffic either!

The difference between formation riding (two abreast) vs Staggered riding is that staggered riding gives you the added option to swerve to avoid a pothole or rock in the road without slowing down by TEMPORARILY entering the lane next to you. This intrudes into the safety space of the rider diagonally behind you, but if they have their attention in the road, then they have also seen the obstruction and are anticipating your swerving into their lane.

Riding with a group gives one a sense of security - the safety of a community support net. Also, newbies to the joy of two wheeled travel get to learn by example from others in a safe and supportive environment. Safety in numbers means that lady riders can participate in long rides without feeling they are exposed to risks of riding alone.

In the event of a breakdown, there is always somebody with you to help out or just keep you company until help arrives. But the really big advantage is that if you have an accident, there are fellow travelers in your immediate group to assist. Our BMW bike club actually arranges and subsidizes certified first aid training for members.

Recently, a newby riding couple along for their first group ride with our club had a spill on a dirt road next to a railroad. The lady pillion broke her ankle in the fall. The first following rider was just such a trained first aider and he was able to immediately assist. Others stopped too and within 30 minutes, an ambulance had arrived to find the patient already stabilized, ready to transport to hospital. At the same time, running repairs had been done to the motorcycle and the rider was able to ride it to the hospital with the ambulance.

It was not conventional bandages and splints, but rolled up t-shirts and buffs, cable ties, tie down straps and a wooden fence dropper that had the patient ready for the ambulance. That is how we train our First Aiders - use whatever you have available that will work.

The paramedics were most surprised that their skills were rendered unnecessary by the ad hoc on-site treatment. The ER personnel were also impressed. Had the couple been riding on their own, the outcome may have been VERY different.
UTC

Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2143
Location: London
 
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2143
Location: London
UTC quote
Harbinger wrote:
I'm totally a lone wolf.
I'm with you there. I enjoy other folks company but, when I'm on a bike, I just like to be there by myself enjoying the ride. I'm not even keen on having passengers but please don't tell the wife.
UTC

Addicted
BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 943
Location: Nebraska
 
Addicted
BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 943
Location: Nebraska
UTC quote
Yep
Most of my rides are relatively unplanned. I head in a direction, and go where the mood strikes me. I ride as long and as far as I feel like, stopping (or not) at whim, mostly wandering the countryside. This adds considerably to the sense of freedom. I find riding as part of a group stifling. Coordinating times, routes, distances, destinations, speeds. Too confining. And with advancing age and infirmity, not always able to predict how long, physically, I can ride. Had to drop out of group rides and return solo on some bad days.

So I no longer make an effort to organize a group ride. I go when I want to go (thank goodness for retirement) for as long as I want, where I want, and how I want to get there. No coordination, no compromise.
@wleuthold avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5182
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@wleuthold avatar
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5182
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
UTC quote
I do both as well.

As a member of the 7 Bridges Scooter Club, a club that rides in groups twice a week, 10,000 to 15,000 miles per year, I find myself in lots of group rides.

I led almost all of them for years, but find myself on Oyster Tours or other trips often enough now so I don't lead often these days.

Because we do so many group rides, it is second nature for us.

There have been only a few minor incidents in all of those rides, the biggest when a new rider wasn't paying attention and crashed into the slowing, turning rider in front. They both were ok and the ride continued.

Group rides require some discipline and patience, but many of our riders would never leave the city riding alone. It is a great way to see the country if so inclined.

My favorite rides these days are the Oyster Tours with Lostboater. We often gave a third or fourth rider join us, but the company makes the rides and stops better.

Bill
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
UTC quote
We only ride in a group if the speed limit is adherred to and the spacing beteen bikes is safe. Most of our group riding was years ago with the hog club. Too many new riders, too close gogether and usually too much beer. Soured us on groups. We will occasionaly ride wuth a couple other scoots or bikes but usually just the two of us. A couple hundred thousand miles riding together, we know each others riding skills well. If we are on a group ride and feel we are not safe, we politely find an excuse to leave at the first rest stop, or sooner if necessary.
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
UTC quote
If you feel others in the group are not riding safely or if you feel as if you are not riding safely, drop out of the ride, please..
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
 
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
UTC quote
This thread demonstrates how different people happen to be. Group rides give certain people an opportunity to play leader which feeds their needs. Not saying that's bad nor that being a follower is either.
In truth much has been said as to how difficult it is to find ONE ride partner when touring. I am one of those who have made such comments.
On my 1st Mexico MC ride I partnered with a guy from LA,CA. He was an experienced rider, honest, pleasant and a very nice guy. In the saddle he became a hell bent for leather rider who had little patience for picture stops or other interesting once in a lifetime stuff. It took much nudging by me to get him to layover only a few hours when at a major point of interest that some people easily spend the whole day or days to see.
I split amicably from him and thoroughly enjoyed meandering for another 5-6 weeks through Mexico at my pace.
Now tell me how you create group rules to deal with "that"?
My wife and I both did people all day long a in our education careers and certain others. I enjoyed years of teamwork in sports and the military and skilled trades-> immensely<-!
But I don't like group rides no matter how turns, stops, intervals, so on are set up. I'm also not a crowd seeker which is yet another e.g. of group seek.
The thing about the lone wolfs is to not paint us as those who dislike people, just how we "dose ourselves" that matters.
In ANY arrangement I see group rides as a road safety compromise of sorts, the larger the worse it gets.
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
UTC quote
Group riding and touring with a group of several people can be two different things. A group ride is generally for a short distance. Group touring is several days in a row. Either can be rewarding or not, enjoyable or horrible. Group riding is radically different than riding with a couple of others, but the problems can be the same, as can the rewards.
⚠️ Last edited by zigzagguzzi on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black (donated)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 763
Location: Northern Virginia
 
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black (donated)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 763
Location: Northern Virginia
UTC quote
Do both as well. The group I ride with is very good, there are two guys that trade off leading the group. Each has his own "style", but they are both good at making sure the group understands the route, follows proper formation etiquette and they make sure all riders are accounted for throughout the ride. The social aspect of a group ride is refreshing, just a bunch of folks who like to ride and talk about this and that (but the ground rules clearly state -- no politics or religion).

Solo rides are nice as well, as you can change your intended route on a whim. I also find solo riding almost like meditation -- you just lock onto the road, your line, the traffic and other surroundings. The rest of the world just falls away.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
Biffa
Yeah I pretty much end up riding alone and I'd rather meet someone somewhere than ride along with others.

Nothing personal but I'd much rather just consider myself.

Bill x
@bob_copeland avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
 
Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Group Riding - Solo Riding
Great input by all.

Most of us probably ride solo most of the time, whether to work or on
a separate adventure. The freedom to regulate your own speed and stop
whenever the idea strikes you is super.

Despite this - I really like Group Rides.

I have been riding with a group for 15 years. In the core of the group (about 16 regular attendees) everyone knows each other and is well practiced in the safety and technique of riding as a group. The banter and good humor in the group is the social bond that keeps everyone coming back.

So, as previously posted, group stuff is a social event. Guilty as charged, I must be a "group joining social animal". To the point, most of my scooter riding is
in our regularly scheduled group rides.

This is not to detract from those pretty cool James Dean lone wolfs out there.
We all are drawn to the thrill of riding.

Bob Copeland
First Seasonal Group Ride this Saturday 7/20/19 - should be 69 degrees in Frost Bite Falls Minnesota
My Minn-Max Scooter Riding Group
My Minn-Max Scooter Riding Group
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
 
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
UTC quote
I will add, that when I lived in my home state and rode with a couple guys I went thru school with, played ball, etc., we got along well but life happened and I moved 750 k east and stayed. There is not one person besides me in my county that owns a scooter and the MC riders think going a couple hours is a long ride and all are cruiser guys that seem to have a smirk on when they see my scoot? Laughing emoticon
I have never been a ride to lunch or a.m., old fart coffee drinkers, with a group type ever. My BIL in Louisville asked me about scoots awhile back but he's too lazy to get an endorsement and it was all about his coffee group not a fascination with the riding.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
Click
I'm not a psychopath or anything and I do enjoy the company the company of others but to be part of a concertina soon gets really boring.

No one ever seems to ride fast enough or with enough purpose.

Horses for courses I guess.

Bill x
@bob_copeland avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
 
Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Group Ride Leaders
From the input so far - most of you continue to or have ridden in a group at some time. I was struck by the different experiences like losing members of the group or the ride leader cannon balling so fast the group can not keep up.
Additionally, there is a completely different dynamic in these large rally rides
with 70 riders.

There is a measure of stuff published about the correct formation for successful group rides. There is less about being the ride leader. If you have been left behind, lost or struggle to keep up, you can really appreciate a good ride leader.

I have had the good fortune of being mentored, hazed and basically taught how to successfully and safely lead a group ride.

Some observations (May or may not resonate with you)

1. Leading a group is not natural and many times not fun. What is natural is taking off when traffic is clear for you alone and accelerating immediately.
2. What is unnatural is the working task of keeping the group together.
3. I have sat at intersections with enough time to allow crossing traffic to
clear enough to allow the whole group to flow out from the stop together.
This may not always be possible . It is easier, if you break large groups into packs of 5 or 6 - each with a ride leader. You can also waive out of turn cross traffic to proceed ahead of you.
4. Next unnatural move - when you clear the stop or intersection slow your acceleration to allow the group to reform behind you - then increase speed
to appropriate cruising pace.
5. There are other riding tips that make for a successful group outing. Example. designate the last rider as tail rider. He rides with high beams
on so the lead can see him. He is also responsible for stopping with anyone who falls off or breaks down.

Much of this may be obvious to most of you. The idea of fighting normal instincts is what can make ride leading no fun. It is the ride leader who is responsible for keeping the group together - it is not the responsibility of the group to keep up with the ride leader.

Just my input from leading +50 separate group rides.

Bob Copeland
@rrider avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3115
Location: Finland
 
Ossessionato
@rrider avatar
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3115
Location: Finland
UTC quote
Interesting discussion and views.

I prefer smallish groups, say 4 bikes. With these the "liberty" to ride in your own style comes almost as granted... and I don't mind a small group getting scattered around for awhile, as long as everyone knows where we are heading to.

Often I prefer to ride my own pace and just gather the riders together at the next stop - kind of a solo ride to a group gathering...

I would not be the type to ride in very large groups for longer trips, gets too organized for me
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20003
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
Pulse
The more people that you involve in anything the more complicated it becomes.

I've ridden in well organised groups but the highlight of the day was the socialising at the end, not the ride itself.

What could be better than taking yourself off on a route and a speed of your choosing ?

It's the freedom to do that feeds my desire to ride solo.

Bill x
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
BC, we use slightly different techniques with our groups ride leaders.
Pulling off, the leader accelerates rapidly to create space for the others.
He will slow down early before a light to compress the group again, often using a red light to regroup them.

On the open road, the ride leader is 8-10 seconds ahead of the peleton,
who are riding with at least double the time gap in the article (2 and 4 seconds).
This allows him to concentrate on scouting the road without having following traffic immediately behind him.

From leader to sweep, our groups may be 2-3 kilometres apart.
Everyone rides their own ride.
Friends or couples often ride in pairs, threes or fours.
After all, it is about the RIDE - not the group.
⚠️ Last edited by Fudmucker on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
UTC quote
Yes! Like your way of doing this!
@lostboater avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2 sold 'em
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2380
Location: St. Pete, Fla
 
Ossessionato
@lostboater avatar
Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2 sold 'em
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2380
Location: St. Pete, Fla
UTC quote
Quote:
My favorite rides these days are the Oyster Tours with Lostboater. We often gave a third or fourth rider join us, but the company makes the rides and stops better.
Bill
My first love is the freedom of independent riding and Oyster Tour rides are as close as you can come to that. It is like ridding solo with someone in your rear view mirror.

JimC introduced me to the "drop and mark" method with a large group and for me it is by far the best system. We use it all the time in Europe with larger rides and it works.
@bob_copeland avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
 
Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3505
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Group Riding Organization
Fudmucker,

I think I like the way your group organizes a ride. I also like the other
groups that designate a meet up point ahead on the route and everyone
proceeds in small groups independently.

Most of our group rides are on back roads with the intent to take in the scenery of hills valleys and farms while navigating colorful switch backs and curves. Many of these back county roads do not have intersection markings.

Tactically, in our riding tradition, we can not be spread out 2 kilometers or we would loose everyone. We do provide GPS routes. The farthest our larger groups are spread out is 100 yards.

Acknowledged Difference: We are not riding on freeways or major trunk roads like a cruising group between States or covering long distances between cities. We do have to jump on freeways to reach the next off broad way back road.

My riding group is kind of a lover of Hill Billy Back country. I know that a measure of you have a "Need for Speed".

Bob Copeland
Frost Bite Falls Minnesota
I am known as a "Slow-Ski Ride Leader"
I am known as a "Slow-Ski Ride Leader"
@crazycarl avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 250 GTS, 1980 P200E, 2010 ThunderFly 190 (SOLD) 2015 Yamaha SMax
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3356
Location: Springboro, OH
 
Ossessionato
@crazycarl avatar
2007 250 GTS, 1980 P200E, 2010 ThunderFly 190 (SOLD) 2015 Yamaha SMax
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3356
Location: Springboro, OH
UTC quote
I enjoy group rides, but have had some poor experiences.

For rides I lead, I make sure to have a quick riders meeting just prior to departure. I make sure that everyone knows where we are going, the basic route and speeds, and who will be the designated tailgunner (last rider in the group).

I also emphasize for everyone to "ride their own ride" and the 3 C's (Common Sense, Courtesy, and Cool Heads).
@larrytsg avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
 
Ossessionato
@larrytsg avatar
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
UTC quote
I'm 99% solo rider. Since buying my scooter 6 years ago I have only been on a handful of group rides.

One time I rode with two guys who seemed to have forgotten to take their Adderall, they were all over the place making last minute turns. Not fun.

Rode with another MV member on a cool October day. I was leading, since I kind of knew where I was going.

I rode the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride the past 4 years. It's a complete zoo, people passing you left and right, either because they didn't enjoy the aroma of two stroke funk, or because I'm not the fastest scooter on the road.

Like 20 years ago I rode with a Honda Shadow riders group, and they were highly organized. There was no real drama, and no fear. It was probably the pinnacle of group riding experiences.

I'm going to be moving soon, and when I land on my feet I'll see if there are any riders there. I know one guy who has a Vino 125, but I don't think he rides much.
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2028
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
On our group rides, we follow the principle of each rider being the keeper of the rider behind you.
You keep their headlight in your field of view, checking every minute or so - as you would do in any case for following traffic.
They become an instantly recognizable image and easy to keep track.
If for some reason, you do not see them, you slow down and look more often.
If you have not seen them for 2-3 minutes, you slow down and pull off onto the shoulder to wait. They will usually be along in 2 or 3 more minutes.

GPS routes for longer rides - yes.
Designated fuel / food stops - yes.
Most times the tail-enders arrive before the first refuelers have pulled off from the pumps.
The ride leader briefs everyone before departing and gives contact cellphone numbers of leader and sweep.

For larger group rides, we will also form a sub-group of novice and slower riders who will depart 5-10 minutes BEFORE the main group. Led by an experienced rider, the main group will catch up and pass them within 30 minutes and they will catch up to the main group again at the next stop - usually before the last main group riders are even ready to fill up with fuel or food.

SAFETY:
On club rides we also keep a register of riders and guests with In Case of Emergency (ICE) numbers in the event of a mishap. It is part of a disclaimer declaration protecting the ride organisers. My cellphone also has ICE1, ICE2, ICE3 numbers for this purpose in case something happens to me.

I also wear a small but legible double-sided tag with all my personal and medical particulars indicated. I use a small spreadsheet to capture the data, print multiples on a single sheet of paper and then cut them out before laminating in plastic. I have one on an elastic chord around my neck, one in my outside riding jacket pocket and one on my key ring. They have no commercial value at all and don't look as though they may contain cash, so they are least likely to be stolen by 'road accident vultures' if I am unconscious at the side of the road.
@maggiegirl avatar
UTC

Addicted
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
 
Addicted
@maggiegirl avatar
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
UTC quote
I ride alone most of the time, have a riding pal locally but it's a lot shorter rides than I usually take so really look forward to that group riding I get when i go up north to meet up with the Urchins or down south for the MO Loves Company rally.
This last fall we had a couple from somewhere east, I don't know where but the woman was very aggressive on the long ride, she didn't start in the front but ended up there. We were on mostly narrow rural roads, with plenty of farm traffic, it was harvest season and winding with hills, her crowding her way up through the groups on 1.5 vehicle wide rural roads created a very unsafe riding situation for many of us. At the first rest/break I made sure she was ahead of me, and did a lot more watching out for my co-riders, some on vintage scooters.
She did not cause any accidents but a fair # of us would rather not ride with someone like her in the 'pack'.
It really does depend on the riders and the organization and leader and communication.
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
maggiegirl wrote:
I ride alone most of the time, have a riding pal locally but it's a lot shorter rides than I usually take so really look forward to that group riding I get when i go up north to meet up with the Urchins or down south for the MO Loves Company rally.
This last fall we had a couple from somewhere east, I don't know where but the woman was very aggressive on the long ride, she didn't start in the front but ended up there. We were on mostly narrow rural roads, with plenty of farm traffic, it was harvest season and winding with hills, her crowding her way up through the groups on 1.5 vehicle wide rural roads created a very unsafe riding situation for many of us. At the first rest/break I made sure she was ahead of me, and did a lot more watching out for my co-riders, some on vintage scooters.
She did not cause any accidents but a fair # of us would rather not ride with someone like her in the 'pack'.
It really does depend on the riders and the organization and leader and communication.
Sounds like a PITA, a bit dangerous and why I don't group ride. I'll admit I'm a pretty aggressive rider and while I enjoy the scenery I don't mind seeing it pass by quickly. I'm not a sit in the pack kind of guy and wait for the 150's to catch up or weekend riders. Even on the Vespa I'll go about 70-75 Mph if the fast lane is moving at that speed. I'll even open it up a bit more but prefer not to get a ticket so that's rare. For those that enjoy it that's awesome but some riders just don't fit the mold. Pretty sure my riding style and Bill Dogs are pretty similar so we feel the same way. I'll admit I'm also a loner even though I have very good people skills and can work with pretty much any personality. When it's not in a professional environment though I just prefer to be alone. It's a great thing I have a wife that understands that. I love motorbiking because it allows me to be in my own head. I'm about to go on a 45 freeway ride in the rain to GP Bikes while listening to the World of Ice and Fire on Audible. That to me is the perfect ride.
OP
@fledermaus avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@fledermaus avatar
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
UTC quote
maggiegirl wrote:
.... her crowding her way up through the groups on 1.5 vehicle wide rural roads created a very unsafe riding situation for many of us.
You just hit on one of my gripes.... on a multiple day event last year, there were one or two of these....not clearly unsafe, but annoying. I'd watch them take every opportunity to work their way up to eventually be close to or right behind the leader. Why?? It's not like you win a prize or anything.

On the same ride I had someone on my left....we were supposed to be riding staggered, but I kept seeing this guy creeping up in my peripheral vision, sometimes next to me, sometimes not. Really annoying, and unsafe spacing, at least to the front of him. I took to crowding the middle of the lane just to hold him off. Livid emoticon

What seemed sad is that the pre-ride was very thorough, including the threat of getting kicked out if you rode poorly-and inviting other riders to report bad riding. In theory, great, in practice, less so. In the middle of a ride, not much to do, at the end, first, not always easy to identify a rider in a sea of scooters, and secondly, at least for me, I don't like sounding like a whiner. i guess if I happened to be standing next to the leader at the end, I'd say something, but they tend to disappear in the crowd.


I still like group rides, but kind of on a 50:50 basis. I enjoy being part of a group that sometimes reminds me of a flock of birds flying together in a smooth, coordinated fashion. It moves me to see the riders ahead rising and descending over hills..... and of course the camaraderie. Most of the time things have gone well and the riding has been quite enjoyable. I feel fortunate that on our annual SW Wisconsin riding we have a group of experienced riders that "get it" and make things pretty seamless. Not to say there haven't been any adventures, but never had the need to fire anyone....though glad one person didn't return the next year. Nerd emoticon

Knowing the people you ride with is a big help. Understanding the temperaments, the riding skills, the comfort in knowing no one is going to make issues to deal with, and having everyone work together can be tremendously satisfying.
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 816
UTC quote
We had two guys on a ride that woukd drop back and then pass everyone. Did this three times until one of them wrapped himself around abarbed wire fence. He was up and okay, no one stopped to help. This on mc, not scooters.
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
OK a little off topic but I did mention I was going for a long freeway ride in the rain.

Soooo.... Pouring rain the big nasty drop kind that hurt when they whack you in the face. 45 minutes in it, dangerous conditions and massive pools of water to watch out for on the highway with Traffic moving at about 100 kmh. No problem I make it to the market where I meeting my wife. I park get off my bike. Then immediately trip on something and go flying landing heavily on my knees. The irony is not lost on me.

FWIW the BMW C650GT handles crappy conditions like a champ. I apparently just can't walk without hurting myself :-/
@bazziemoto avatar
UTC

Hooked
1974 Vespa 125 Primavera, 1980 Bajaj Chetak, 1962 Lambretta 175TV3, 2006 Yamaha Vino
Joined: UTC
Posts: 497
Location: Boston, MA
 
Hooked
@bazziemoto avatar
1974 Vespa 125 Primavera, 1980 Bajaj Chetak, 1962 Lambretta 175TV3, 2006 Yamaha Vino
Joined: UTC
Posts: 497
Location: Boston, MA
UTC quote
Fudmucker wrote:
Riding with a group gives one a sense of security - the safety of a community support net. Also, newbies to the joy of two wheeled travel get to learn by example from others in a safe and supportive environment. Safety in numbers means that lady riders can participate in long rides without feeling they are exposed to risks of riding alone.

In the event of a breakdown, there is always somebody with you to help out or just keep you company until help arrives. But the really big advantage is that if you have an accident, there are fellow travelers in your immediate group to assist. Our BMW bike club actually arranges and subsidizes certified first aid training for members.
YES THIS. I've only been riding for about 3 years, 2 on a shifty, and I love group rides. I love the sense of community, the security of knowing that someone will be there if something happens, and I feel a lot safer when others in front of me are pointing out potholes and other problems with the road. Also, with our vintage bikes, someone will always have a problem, and having people to help is great.

I've also turned into the person who organizes most of our group rides, just because everyone else is busy or lazy or whatever. Our group is small, usually 4 to maybe 10 people, and I think that's a great size. We all know each other and know everyone's riding styles, so it works pretty well.
Fudmucker wrote:
BC, we use slightly different techniques with our groups ride leaders.
Pulling off, the leader accelerates rapidly to create space for the others.
He will slow down early before a light to compress the group again, often using a red light to regroup them.
This is how I lead. After a turn, I'll usually stay slow for a bit to make sure everyone has made it and then speed up to give everyone room to do their thing. Everyone regroups at a light and it allows us to feel like we're riding as a group but not be confined by it.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43354
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43354
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Bazziemoto wrote:
I feel a lot safer when others in front of me are pointing out potholes and other problems with the road.
Actually, this highlights one of my beefs about some group riding in the US (and only it seems in the US). I really dislike it when the person riding in front of me sticks their leg out suddenly, wobbling their ride and taking my attention away from the road. I quickly realise they're trying to point out some pothole or whatever - but do they think my riding is so poor that I wouldn't have noticed it by myself? What do they think would happen if I was riding alone and not in that group?

As it is, they have destabilised their own ride - I've witnessed some serious wobbles - and momentarily taken my own attention away from the road so that I nearly miss spotting the hazard myself. Lose-lose.

Please folks, don't do this. A pre-ride briefing should specifically mention NOT to do this if there are riders new to the group.
@bazziemoto avatar
UTC

Hooked
1974 Vespa 125 Primavera, 1980 Bajaj Chetak, 1962 Lambretta 175TV3, 2006 Yamaha Vino
Joined: UTC
Posts: 497
Location: Boston, MA
 
Hooked
@bazziemoto avatar
1974 Vespa 125 Primavera, 1980 Bajaj Chetak, 1962 Lambretta 175TV3, 2006 Yamaha Vino
Joined: UTC
Posts: 497
Location: Boston, MA
UTC quote
jimc wrote:
Bazziemoto wrote:
I feel a lot safer when others in front of me are pointing out potholes and other problems with the road.
Actually, this highlights one of my beefs about some group riding in the US (and only it seems in the US). I really dislike it when the person riding in front of me sticks their leg out suddenly, wobbling their ride and taking my attention away from the road. I quickly realise they're trying to point out some pothole or whatever - but do they think my riding is so poor that I wouldn't have noticed it by myself? What do they think would happen if I was riding alone and not in that group?
Well the fact is that if you're in a group and unable to see all of the road ahead, you may not be able to see it in time. I've never noticed anyone I ride with destabilize their ride by doing this.

I also notice that you're in CA and ride larger bikes - up here in the Northeast, it's actually very helpful because our roads are shit and a pothole can kill you. For those of us on much smaller bikes like my vintage smallframe, which only weighs 150 lbs, hitting even a moderate pothole or rough patch can have really serious consequences.
Quote:
As it is, they have destabilised their own ride - I've witnessed some serious wobbles - and momentarily taken my own attention away from the road so that I nearly miss spotting the hazard myself. Lose-lose.
Again, maybe inexperienced riders? I've never noticed this or found it to be a problem. Perhaps instructing more novice riders to leave this to those with more experience is the way to go.
OP
@fledermaus avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@fledermaus avatar
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 11929
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
UTC quote
I'm mixed on the toe-pointing maneuver. It can be helpful, but annoying at other times. It can get out of control.....people pointing for little patches of gravel on a straight piece of road, for example, or minor holes that you'd have to deviate to run into. I've been on rides where it seems half of the energy expended is pointing out potential road hazards.

Like a lot of other riding habits, there's a learning curve, and it helps to give a word to the newbie.....
@madison_sully avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7542
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@madison_sully avatar
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7542
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
UTC quote
jimc wrote:
Bazziemoto wrote:
I feel a lot safer when others in front of me are pointing out potholes and other problems with the road.
Actually, this highlights one of my beefs about some group riding in the US (and only it seems in the US). I really dislike it when the person riding in front of me sticks their leg out suddenly, wobbling their ride and taking my attention away from the road. I quickly realise they're trying to point out some pothole or whatever - but do they think my riding is so poor that I wouldn't have noticed it by myself? What do they think would happen if I was riding alone and not in that group?

As it is, they have destabilised their own ride - I've witnessed some serious wobbles - and momentarily taken my own attention away from the road so that I nearly miss spotting the hazard myself. Lose-lose.

Please folks, don't do this. A pre-ride briefing should specifically mention NOT to do this if there are riders new to the group.
+1
I have been chastised for not doing this myself.
If you can't see the potholes or other obstacles before you hit them, you are either:
1. Following me to closely.
2. Eyesight impaired enough you shouldn't be riding.
3. Not paying proper attention. This isn't a train.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.2383s ][ Queries: 44 (0.1325s) ][ Debug on ][ 313 ][ Thing One ]