my BLUE Bajaj fitting 60mm Crankshaft
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:30 am quote
qascooter I enjoy your posts very much. Made a revelation today or at least just using things more and more you figure out how to do things like why there are two sides on the degree wheel having a lot of fun when the light goes ON.
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Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:26 pm quote
spent some time matching the carb box to the casing. The top mating surface of the casing is virtually untouched from Bajaj however the box needed enlarging to match at the casing and at the carburetor. The carburetor itself was ovaled to match the box. Everything is blended and expanded but not too extreme.

Removed about 10 from the crankshaft. First time doing this not the greatest.

Is there anything else I should do?

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Ossessionato
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Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:33 pm quote
I think you did a great job on the crank.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:02 pm quote
Wow, Impressive....
Molto Verboso
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Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:22 pm quote
Crank and inlet looking plenty good enough. You sure thats your first time?

What is the rotary duration now?
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Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:33 am quote
OK here is where we are now after the inlet modification and crankshaft modification Io. 117 BTDC + Ic. 70 ATDC = 187 total rotary duration +30 from these mods.

Is there anything else? Should we lower the transfers in the cylinder?

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Molto Verboso
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Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:05 pm quote
I think the inlet is done. 117/70 is a good number to have.

If you feel you can lower the transfers without any damage then go for it. Going by your crank work I feel you can. Get the base packer size and head squish planned first so you know how much to cut.

To do a proper job you're going to need to up the exhaust port as well. 60mm crank reduces the exhaust duration from what was already not great.
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Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 pm quote
Sounds great what is recommended for upping the exhaust? Not sure what this means.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:54 pm quote
First thing to know is exactly how thick the base gasket will be. We said before this base packer should be as thin as possible. The pictures show a 1mm or more to move all the ports down. This should be less with a thin gasket. What size is it?
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:20 am quote
I was somewhat settled with a 1.0mm base gasket, a 0.5mm head gasket with an anticipated 1.0mm squish. I have some apprehension reducing the base gasket due to potential leakage. The base gasket seals off a very small portion of the side transfer(s). How thick should the base remain to maintain the integrity here?

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Molto Verboso
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:53 am quote
Ok. Running a thin base gasket is more important. It's not structural so doesn't need to be welded. If you rough up that area near the hole. Fit the cylinder with any gasket, lightly smeared grease on the back face. JB weld or other chemical aluminum filler behind. Then it will be strong enough for a 0.2mm gasket when you final assemble. Head gasket re- sized to get 0.9mm to 1.1mm squish. 0.9mm obviously gives more power.
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:53 am quote
Got the paper and pencil out again to play with the math some more. Trying to keep things organized even though both organization and math are not my specialties so I'd like to run this by the board to make sure we're still on track.

I am using the following measurements:

Cylinder Deck Step: 1.35mm Cylinder Base Gasket 0.25mm
60mm stroke 105mm conrod
Exhaust 35.55mm Transfer 46.75mm PBT 2.05mm
Head Gasket 1.5mm Squish ~1.0mm
Exhaust 167.46 Transfer 117.20 Blowdown 25.13

The clutch side transfer should be fairly easy to pack with JB Weld however the flywheel side looks tricky we are open to suggestions. Might be able to do it by fixturing & using a thick base gasket we have here. I am including a photo area of concern with red marker to highlight the void area. Additional photo illustrates the light leakage when a flashlight illuminates inside the cylinder. Is there a wax paper or equivalent to make a non stick gasket surface for the JB Weld?

Another area of concern for us now is the head situation. PBT will be 2.05mm with the 0.25mm base gasket. Will need a 1.5mm head gasket to get back to 1.0mm squish if our mathematics are correct. The cylinder deck step should keep the head gasket where it should be but worrisome about the head floating on top of this. Is this something to worry about? Does it need doweling? If our math continues to be correct the top ring 2.58mm below crown should leave 0.53mm below the cylinder deck. Is this good?

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Molto Verboso
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:25 pm quote
Oops. Looks like I made a mistake. I just re-read the thread. We said 1.0mm base gasket before. We said 1.0mm base because this is the limit for the cylinder ports as they are.

If you are prepared to cut the exhaust port to move it a little higher, then there are is another option. 1.5mm base is a little too much but 1.2mm base would work. That would put PBT at ~1.0mm. Then raise the exhaust port from 35.55mm to 34.00mm and you will have 122.5/177.5, which will go way better.
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Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:01 am quote
We like the latter option it helps with the cylinder to casing seal and improves the head situation. May need to work out a head gasket.

With a lack of porting cylinders in my career can the board help with some pointers? I think I can sneak the flexi Dremel in through the exhaust to raise the top and match/lower the bottom. I've set the micrometer to 34.mm + compensation in the photo's. Do I maintain the shape at the top of the port or do I raise it across the width as marked?

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Molto Verboso
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Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:06 pm quote
Looks like you already to go

The port is only going up 1.45mm. Be careful of that 1.35mm step at the top of the cylinder. In some of those pictures it looks nearer to 3mm.

Keep the same profile and chamfer all the way accross the top. No need to go right into the corners, it's not worth the risk. If you use non cutting burrs and keep to the diamond burrs there will be less chance of a Nicasil chip.
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Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:46 pm quote
Not sure if we are totally clear Jack when you say profile so I've made a tracing of the exhaust port and shaded the area on the left side that we had thought should be removed. Added a few more photo's to provide some dimensions.

Went ahead and measured the step at the top of cylinder again and again, it's no less than 1.35 and no more than 1.40 so I will go with 1.40 + 34.0 for the exhaust, yes?

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Molto Verboso
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Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:58 pm quote
Lucky you asked Would have compromised a perfectly good cylinder. The top of the exhaust port cannot be square or the rings will wear out very quickly.

Yes, take the 35.5mm dimension and make it 34.0mm as you have drawn it. Its really not so much metal but makes quite a difference.

Keeping a similar rounded shape but flatter in the middle is fairly easy to do. Moving the corners has a risk of not going well. I drew on your picture but make sure yours is a bit more symmetrical than mine.
Be sure to put the chamfer back on with a fine diamond tool, just like it is now.

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Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:31 pm quote
Gracias for the clarification. Nervously sanded the exhaust hole. It went OK. Adrenalin still in me. Made a before and after tracing it's sort of difficult to see the inner before trace plus not sure the pencil is actually reaching all the way at the appropriate angle. This is still a mild tune right?

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Molto Verboso
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Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:48 pm quote
Looking like a great job too. No damage to the liner is always good anytime.

The shape looks good, follows the curve of the original. Could be a little flatter in the middle but I would call that done for the edge. Should go about 1/2 inch further into the port, so not done yet.

Can't see much 30 chamfer on the top edge. Doesn't need to be huge but does need to be there. If the rings catch an edge it will be a hard seize.

122.5/177.5/27.5 is fairly mild tune but it's a190cc now, so be sure to jet this rich right from the first start.
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:18 am quote
Quote:
This is still a mild tune right?
My new signiture line quote!

Work looks great.
Daring venture into tuning including crank cut.
Tks for sharing.

Excited to see how it comes out.
Ossessionato
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:41 am quote
Thumbs up hibbert, pro job!

Your attention to detail is impressive.



Tip of homemade degree wheel pointer painted red is a nice touch. Shows extra level of precision and commitment.
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:56 am quote
Sounds good will work on blending the port back into the duct a little more.

Not sure how to put the chamfer back, can't believe how sharp those two edges got. Still looking at best approach for my ability. Was thinking of 'borrowing' one of my gal's metal finger nail files. Is something like this gonna do it?

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Ossessionato
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:45 am quote
I use these. Super handy. ~ $20 at Home Depot.

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Molto Verboso
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:51 pm quote
A hand file is rubbing in the direction that would make a chip. Perfect for iron cylinders. Could get away with it but for the chamfer something like these work great. They are so cheap they hardly cut, which is exactly what this needs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30x-Diamond-Burr-Bit-Drill-Kit-Dremel-Rotary-Tool-For-Engraving-Carving-Grinding/183834283854?hash=item2acd608f4e:g:Be0AAOSwpVlc9IRl

Some wet and dry paper wrapped around a file would work though. Just take your time.


What was the final measurement?
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Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:31 pm quote
Seems pretty smooth now with some file work and emery paper. Do not see any problems with the plating. Thought I was much more shy but came in at 34.16 mm. Think that is as close as I can get. What next?
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:54 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Thumbs up hibbert, pro job!

Your attention to detail is impressive.



Tip of homemade degree wheel pointer painted red is a nice touch. Shows extra level of precision and commitment.
I was thinking the same a few days back!
Molto Verboso
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:47 am quote
I think that's it for tuning. Make sure the head will be at 1.0 to 1.2mm with PBT at ~1.0mm.

Clutch. Should be expensive and strong. Cosa is smoother and lighter.
Gearing. 22/68 would be a good place to start on a PX
Variable timing
Exhaust
24/24 carb
Vortex for the 24/24 carb
Probably more....
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:22 am quote
The No. 07 Chetak comes with a 22 tooth gear on the clutch and 67 tooth on the layshaft. What does changing the 67 to 68 do?

The Chetak had a strange clutch or maybe an obsolete Vespa one. The inner gears were reversed on the metals and cork. The Drive gear is not riveted to the back plate. I have switched out the back plate for DR 22T and have SIP Race EVO Carbon plates. The plates look nice it's a 4 plate the materials seem incredible.

Also have a set of Pinasco Springs. What does the jury say about mixing Pinasco springs with EVO plates? Some argue to use the springs that came with the EVO plates as they are matched. Darn it even the Pinasco spring cups are something to appreciate.

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Molto Verboso
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:51 pm quote
The 22/67 is close enough. Sure it will pull this box just fine. I expect these have the P150X cogs and tree to match that ring gear.

Original reverse clutch is certainly weird. In it's own way it was probably an upgrade.
I would suggest you don't spend any more money on that clutch. The carbon plates can be a little grabby, with that and the extra power it now it will not last forever. A banded Cosa will suit it better for the next one.

What exhaust, carb and ignition? Not points is it?
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Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 am quote
With the help of a good hand we have the bottom end buttoned up. Things went smooth it's fun when things go together right.

With a 1.0m base gasket and a 0.5m head gasket the squish is very close to being good but not sure exactly how to translate the measurement. I am using solder measuring 1.57mm diameter. The reading at the very tip of the compressed solder is 0.83, 0.85, 0.87 it's thin. Looks like one link got under the head gasket.

Where the flat ends and becomes round again it's about 1.30mm. Then the length of the flat is about 3.0mm long. In the middle of the flat it is 1.0mm. Tried to get as close to the bore as possible. Things could get a bit tighter when torqued.

Still undecided on the exhaust. Just looking at pictures and from personal experience with the BGM Big Box on a weekly can't see getting anything less performance wise which has kept us from pulling the trigger on the Polini. Our interpretation is the Polini is better than the SIP. May have to 'borrow' the BGM from the GL to test with Chetak.

For the ignition we are using a standard P200 stator plate with electronic ignition. One of the nice upgrades on the 60mm crankshaft is it comes with a P200 style crank taper which then allows for options on the stator plate and flywheel. We have a 1600g flywheel hope it's not too lite. Also on the crank taper there is no step from taper to seal surface just a clean continuous transition no buggered seal lips to worry about so easy.

For the carb using standard 24 with T5 size air filter and Pinasco top cover. May I ask what is a good starting point for the jetting? This is what we have in the carburetor: Pilot 55-160 Main 118 Atomiser BE3 Air Corrector 160 on the slide we see a B and 04.

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Last edited by hibbert on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
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Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:00 am quote
It's always nice when things go together easily. Right on Hibbert! I like the electric hotplate in the first pic to heat up the cases! I don't have a clue where to start on the jetting though. It's looking good!
Molto Verboso
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Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:02 pm quote
All looking good. That head has quite a steep angle so the tighter squish will be fine. Bolt it up there and get it going.

Jetting is going to take a while to get right. 18 degrees timing on this will be fine.
Use T5 jetting and a slightly bigger main jet to start with.
AC120 BE4 125MJ and work down.
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Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:22 am quote
Yea or Nay?

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Last edited by hibbert on Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:23 am quote
There is a hole in my heart and a pillar in the empty space what is the recommendation?

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Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:56 pm quote
Still making some progress. Decided to port the air filter so it is removable without having to remove the throttle speed screw which for some reason is standard on the T5? Hopefully this was not a mistake. Thought about shortening the spring, the problem encountered the throttle screw would not open the slide due the spring binding with the reduced travel for the spring to collapse on the throttle screw inside the air filter. Additionally I find it convenient to remove the air filter and work on the carburetor without having to reset the idle screw. After I drilled a hole to notch the air filter I realized there are some pre-cast recesses that 'influence' something? After my porting the recesses allowed unfiltered air to bypass the filter and creep in under the filter next to the throttle screw. This seemed bad. Looking a a stock air filter which did not have the recesses we JB'd them. Never did get any insight on the heart though, this one has a 3mm hole in the main jet stack.

Put the clutch on and marked the timing on the flywheel. Still fighting an issue with clutch cover but will get it resolved.

The exhaust arrived and needed some modification. A last minute idea came to mind just as I removed the captive nut on the side that was about to get cut off. There was enough space for it to bend over & mend with some added material maybe adding some reinforcement. Decided to add a spring gusset too probably didn't need it but I get nervous over-tightening aluminum.

Had myself a sime66 fourty-five minute session with the bottom of the exhaust port and I am glad I did. Hope it's OK it sure feels good.

Exhaust should be back with ceramic coating soon.

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Molto Verboso
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:32 pm quote
Wow Hibbert, very nice. Very, very nice!
Ossessionato
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:21 pm quote
Start it!
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:12 pm quote
Can't wait to see this one running.
Is clutch cover issue due to interference with cover?
WhoDatschrome bailed me out with a thicker spacer he had water jet cut.
None of the off the shelf spacers were thick enough.
FMP videos show there is significant variations of covers - and I was unlucky enough to be on the low side I guess.
No amount of grinding - including straight through the cover - would stop the interference. Don't ask how I know... (as they say)

Yours is gonna be a fun ride.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:36 am quote
Did you manage to get the T5 air filter fitted with the bigger Pinasco air box top? I seem to remember trying and failing, so went down the route of the Pinasco venturi thingy. It was a couple of years ago and I've messed with all sorts of configurations, so I could have imagined it.
Ossessionato
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Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:44 am quote
I'm not sure how I missed this entire thread until now, but nice work! It's fun to watch someone else go through the whole learning process that I went through on the P engine. Hopefully you won't need 40 pages to jet it in like me .
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