Issue with 2018 GTS - Am I just going mad?
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Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:14 am quote
When I started riding yesterday the Vespa seemed to sound a lot louder, lower pitched, and gruntier. This has persisted since then. I ride every day and hadn't noticed this so it seems to have happened suddenly. There are no warning lights and it rides fine. I've ridden it 250 miles since. But I worry I may be doing damage. This could all be in my head. But I don't think so. Does this ring any bells with anyone? I need to ride 250 miles again tomorrow assuming its okay then its due a service on tuesday so I can get them to give it a good look-over. I'm just anxious because I'm scheduled to for a long ride to Belgium on Wednesday. I'm a lot less mechanically minded than I would prefer to be. I can confirm its not on fire. I couldn't see anything very obviously awry on a visual inspection, including the exhaust.
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1696
Location: Finland
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:47 am quote
Exhaust leaking a bit from a joint?

The gasket (bushing) between the silencer and header pipe (if there still is the traditional one in the 2018...anybody?), or mayby the connection the cylinder head.
Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 263
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:47 am quote
RRider wrote:
Exhaust leaking a bit from a joint?

The gasket (bushing) between the silencer and header pipe (if there still is the traditional one in the 2018...anybody?), or mayby the connection the cylinder head.
+1

Sounds like the most probable explanation.
Ossessionato
GTS300 Super Blue Gaiola
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Sydney, Australia
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:50 am quote
I would worry about a crack in the downpipe from the head that the exhaust bolts on to. They are prone to cracking if there is any tension when the exhaust is bolted on.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:56 am quote
Thanks for the replies. Given this am I likely to make it the 250 miles back home so it can be looked at or do I need to drop everything?

Itís a bank holiday weekend so Iím just hoping it stays together long enough for my ride home for servicing on Tuesday. If itís a crack rather than a bushing it sounds like that wouldnít be a same day repair so may screw my Brussels trip.
Member
Vespa GTS 300 Super
Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Malta
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:00 am quote
Did you by any chance changed your helmet ? sometimes does happen to be listening to things that you have never heard before due to changing to another helmet.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:05 am quote
Same helmet.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300, BV 500, Buddy 125
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 7704
Location: Houston, TX/Breckenridge, CO
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:36 am quote
My 2018 Vespa had a bad bore on that caused the exhaust bolt to shear. It was not caught when the scoot was first serviced but ended up being replaced by Piaggio under warranty. There is a thread from last summer about it but Iím on my phone in the middle of the Atlantic so internet is too slow to search for the thread.
Member
Vespa GTS 300 Super
Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Malta
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:57 am quote
How does it sound when its on idle ?
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:16 am quote
Sounds loud and low on idle.

Iím really hoping itís a bushing. That would mean I could ride the 250 miles to the servicing on Tuesday and theyíd be able to replace that easily ahead of my long trip on Wednesday. If itís a crack Iím likely screwed though.
Member
Vespa GTS 300 Super
Joined: 14 Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Malta
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:59 am quote
Did you try to trace the sound? Could be that there is something wrong with the exhaust. If it is, you can still manage to do the km youīll need to do.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8213
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:05 am quote
I'd bet on exhaust bushing, at least odds-wise. They do tend to creep up on you and make you wonder if you're hearing things. it might be possible to feel a bit of exhaust blow-by with your hand...though don't get burned!

It's good practice to check the torque on the clamp bolt periodically, and with a bit of luck tightening it a bit may buy you some time. Mostly likely the graphite bushings is going anyway, however. Just don't over tighten or you'll likely make things worse.

I can't recall how long I rode with my bushing going, but it was a while before I convinced myself that I actually had a problem. Seems reasonable that you could make it home......

The problem with the bushing going is that they seem to come apart at varying rates. If it isn't much worse after 250, that's at least a bit encouraging. OTOH, if you're getting approving nods from bikers, you're overdue.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:42 am quote
LOL at the approving nods. Iíve done a deeper visual inspection and canít see an obvious crack. at idle on the stand I can feel warm airflow with my hand thar may be coming from... Err, the furthest back joint bit I can see, under the bike. I really am incompetent. Iíll attempt the 250 journey home and hope itís the bushing so they can sort me out ahead of 1000 miles in the following days for my Belgian trip. Iíll be unhappy if I miss out on waffles and fruit beer.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8213
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:04 am quote
raettig wrote:
LOL at the approving nods. Iíve done a deeper visual inspection and canít see an obvious crack. at idle on the stand I can feel warm airflow with my hand thar may be coming from... Err, the furthest back joint bit I can see, under the bike. I really am incompetent. Iíll attempt the 250 journey home and hope itís the bushing so they can sort me out ahead of 1000 miles in the following days for my Belgian trip. Iíll be unhappy if I miss out on waffles and fruit beer.
Personally, I'd be comfortable with that. Well, the first part.

Waffles and fruit beer? Damn! There's motivation.

I'm betting on you coming through all right. New gasket is quick and relatively easy. I carry a spare and a few tools on longer rides. Don't really want to do it roadside, but know that I can if necessary.
Addicted
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Location: Toronto
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:22 am quote
Whenever I swap windscreens (winter to summer, or vice versa), I wonder for a while about what's causing the "new" sounds.
Addicted
2014 GTS 300ie
Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 662
Location: Belgium
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:55 am quote
Bet it's the bushing. Put the vespa on center stand, rev the engine and listen near the bushing. Soletiles you can even feel the hot exhaust coling out near the clamp.
Addicted
two Vespa GTSs (Dragon Red and Black). GT 200 - Kymco Yager 200i
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Posts: 530
Location: Saratoga Springs, New York
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:10 pm quote
If you can feel hot air coming out where it usually doesnít, thatís the exhaust bushing. No worries about driving home with it. Replaced mine three times in 15000 miles on my Ď09 GTS, but never on my older one.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36949
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:59 pm quote
And the moral is...

Always carry a spare exhaust bushing! They can be obtained quite cheaply (<£5 each) rather than Piaggio's expensive offering. You could carry the few tools needed to change it at the side of the road, and if going on a long journey that's possibly worth it, but for day to day running just get home and git'r'done.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6586
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:28 am quote
Mike Holland wrote:
I would worry about a crack in the downpipe from the head that the exhaust bolts on to. They are prone to cracking if there is any tension when the exhaust is bolted on.
Only if the clamp is put on too tight. That bushing works as a slip joint if the clamp is not over tightened.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS 300 i.e. ABS, 2010 Vespa GTS 300 ie Super & 2003 Honda Shadow VT750 ACE (sold) & 2006 Vespa LX150 (sold)
Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 2829
Location: Toronto (formerly Montreal)
Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:35 pm quote
Exhaust bushing for sure. Always good to carry a spare.

When you change the rear tire, always change that bushing too.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 175
Location: Texas
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:38 pm quote
Slip Joint Exhaust
WEB-Tech wrote:
Mike Holland wrote:
I would worry about a crack in the downpipe from the head that the exhaust bolts on to. They are prone to cracking if there is any tension when the exhaust is bolted on.
Only if the clamp is put on too tight. That bushing works as a slip joint if the clamp is not over tightened.
Yep. The recommended torque setting on the clamp is pretty light (12-13 Nm).

A slip joint on an exhaust pipe is pretty common on light aircraft because of the vibration of the engine. Overtightening can lead to cracking and CO entry into the cabin.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:17 pm quote
It was the bushing. Thanks everyone for the wise words. Though they were unable to advise why my air freshener isn't working.

I was on one long trip to visit my ailing mother ahead of my holiday ride from Wiltshire to Brussels. Naturally this is when the bike chose to act up. I'm glad I booked a service well in advance for the one day I had between one long trip and the next. I'm even more glad I didn't have to forego the fruit beer and waffles.

Cheers!

mortsubite2.JPG
I'll quite literally drink to that.

adinkerke.JPG
Picking up some important supplies in Adinkerke.

bunny.JPG
The Easter bunny couldn't bear to look.

airfreshener.JPG
Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Molto Verboso
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1788
Location: Not really sure but I think somewhere in the engineering dept at Starfleet's UK HQ
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:58 am quote
Glad you got her fixed. My bushing went at 5,000 miles. Easy fix. I carry a spare now. Have fun and that beer looks great!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5031
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:03 am quote
My first bushing on my MP3 500 went ~30,000 miles.
GTS 250 got its first replacement ~7,500 miles.

I never have replaced an exhaust bushing at the same time as a tire change.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, S 150, GTS 250
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 7188
Location: KS USA
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:13 am quote
I concur with the silencer's graphite gasket going bed. Have you check the screws that hold the pipe to the swing arm?
Hooked
2017 GTS Super 300ie 'Sofia', 2014 Suzuki SV650
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 424
Location: Berlin, Germany
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:32 am quote
Fogie wrote:
Whenever I swap windscreens (winter to summer, or vice versa), I wonder for a while about what's causing the "new" sounds.
Even though I had figured it to be the bushing - like pretty much everyone on here - I also thought about my windshield switch from summer shorty to winter medium and how much noise seems to be bounced back at me suddenly. After a day or so, I'm accustomed to it. But that first day...
Enthusiast
2018 Vespa GTS Super
Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Central Florida
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:22 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Mike Holland wrote:
I would worry about a crack in the downpipe from the head that the exhaust bolts on to. They are prone to cracking if there is any tension when the exhaust is bolted on.
Only if the clamp is put on too tight. That bushing works as a slip joint if the clamp is not over tightened.
Pay attention to this!!! Not too tight as it IS meant as a slip joint and by over-tightening the clamp bolt it will tend to squeeze out instead of slipping. Also, too tight means that you are more likely to be adding stress to the header pipe (don't ask me how I know...) with resulting cracking from the flange to the bend.
Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1682
Location: E. KY
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:13 am quote
I disagree for practical reasons to not need to change the gasket just based on disassembly alone.
Not trying for an argument but my point is that if the clamp is lossened up sufficiently before re-assembly and careful insertion of the pipe they will be OK if they were OK prior.
Even a new gasket can be ruined by not being careful. Worry about stuff that is messed up not whats OK - that's the moral of my story.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Mon May 13, 2019 5:40 am quote
New gasket worked fine for two weeks. But now the pipe has snapped right through, not even at a join point. Possible they over tightened it when fitting the new gasket? Hoping they can do a warranty repair as a new exhaust is an expensive part.
Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 263
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Mon May 13, 2019 6:46 am quote
raettig wrote:
New gasket worked fine for two weeks. But now the pipe has snapped right through, not even at a join point. Possible they over tightened it when fitting the new gasket? Hoping they can do a warranty repair as a new exhaust is an expensive part.
It's easy to put undue stress on the muffler pipe and associated joints after replacing the bushing. It's best to loosen off the supporting swing arm bolts and torque-up the header pipe/muffler joint and swingarm bolts all at the same time, alternating between each bolt a bit at a time. Perhaps the mechanics did not do this?
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon May 13, 2019 7:39 am quote
raettig wrote:
New gasket worked fine for two weeks. But now the pipe has snapped right through, not even at a join point. Possible they over tightened it when fitting the new gasket? Hoping they can do a warranty repair as a new exhaust is an expensive part.
I had a new downpipe replaced under warranty way back in 2006 on an X9 250. Make sure your dealer pushes Piaggio hard - they tend to deny warranty claims at the first 'ask'.
Member
Vespa 2018 SuperSport (matte yellow). Vespa 2014 Sprint 125 3V ABS (Yellow)
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Wiltshire, England
Mon May 13, 2019 8:58 am quote
the dealer replaced the gasket ahead of my brussels trip and all seemed fine. subsequently it started getting louder again. then i started riding out for breakfast the other day and it got very loud and started backfiring when decelerating. i suspect that's the moment the pipe snapped. i turned around and went back home. i managed to ride it 40 miles to the garage in that condition today, which was fun. here's hoping for a warranty repair. i've had the bike just over a year and it's done almost exactly 10k miles and been well serviced along the way.

IMG_1087.JPG
i'm no expert, but this doesn't look ideal.

Molto Verboso
Xmax 300
Joined: 02 Jul 2016
Posts: 1222
Location: Adelaide
Mon May 13, 2019 4:11 pm quote
You'll need two air fresheners to mask the exhaust fumes.
Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1682
Location: E. KY
Tue May 14, 2019 3:05 am quote
That appears as a welding stress point crack- but given the 10k miles before it came about, maybe vibration from something loose in the re-mounting caused the weakest point to break?
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