My '63 VBB2T project
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Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:51 am quote
Thanks!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
fantastic work and nice pictures.

now go ride and enjoy
Well.. I promise we did not carry it to the photo location
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:07 pm quote
Installed a new selector box today. Difference is quite noticeable!

5A0CF508-854D-45DD-935C-4A59725487B2.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:27 am quote
Old vs new!

3F98AB1F-D3E4-4792-AC88-F99BB1EFFEA4.jpeg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1177
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:48 am quote
That is a fantastic picture - Old vs New. Very cool!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:29 am quote
Had the legshield welded today.

Unfortunately, the weld on the front cracked again on the way home. The one on the back has helt until now.
What to do? Continue like this? Or have it welded again first?

IMG_7262.jpg
Before

IMG_7264.jpg
During

IMG_7265.jpg
During

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During

IMG_7272.jpg
After the ride home. The weld on the front of the shield cracked again.

IMG_7273.jpg
The one on the back has helt for the moment. It's great to ride without resonance!

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 159
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:31 am quote
To be honest, that was not a good welding job. It was just tacked and was destined to crack again. It needs full stitch welding to fill the whole crack.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6991
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:58 am quote
+1, but was a good start. I'll bet you didn't want any of that original paint ground down/burned up, but it's gotta be done sometime. Sorry, I feel for you and I have been there too.


stick welded and not very pretty but has taken the vibration etc for a couple of years now without breaking.


hammer & dolly time then a little fiberglass cosmetic help, very little


done enough for me and was time to change some things on that silly headset


edit: aw geez , I already posted some of this on Pg1, as well as this prediction:
V oodoo wrote:
...
You'll want a full weld to do it right and not have it crack before long. Find an autobody shop w/ somebody experienced in welding body panels. This should be easy to get a good job. Wet rags to protect the paint maybe, but this will burn it back a little. No worries paintwise, it would add to its charming personality Grind, polish and clearcoat, maybe w/ some blue tint.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:33 pm quote
You are both right, I didn't wanted to mess up the paint along the whole crack.
I would be happy with just a spot. Or even 2-3 spots, but it has to hold.. That's the problem.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:17 pm quote
My 12yo son Maxim on the vbb!
Maxim has autism, and has always been scared of my motorbikes. But not of the Vespa! The thing is running, he was even revving it !

2383086D-92E0-43E1-9779-6F4E86FA04F5.jpeg

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4756
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:38 pm quote
^ That grin is priceless. Wont be long before he wants to ride. Enjoy every minute.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1177
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 pm quote
Maxim's got style! And he knows style when he sees it! Right on. Great picture!
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 523
Location: california
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:28 pm quote
Quote:
My 12yo son Maxim on the vbb!
Now that's a great pic.
And you have posted a lota good pictures.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 342
Location: Central california
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:09 pm quote
63 vbb
I have to agree with all that has been said. Enjoy your time with your son...they grow up quick. Priceless picture. Scott
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:11 am quote
Hi all,

Upcoming winter, I'm going to rebuild the engine on my VBB. I'll be doing it together with the loal Vespa dealer, in his workshop. The guy became a friend, and proposed this, I off course accepted


I want more power/ I rode with my cousin this weekend, he has a sprint with a PX177 on it, and I was hopelessly left behind...
I would prefer to keep it on 8", but still doubting if this is safe.


Now, what to do?

1. Overhaul the original engine, with a 177cc on it.
2. New LML 150cc 5 ports
3. PX 150
4. PX 200
5. T5
6. Something else?

I have an offer on a revised T5 engine at the moment.
I'm kind of tempted to pull the trigger.
The only thing that bugs me, is that I prefer to ride on couple, and that the T5 is high RPM. Can this be ridden in touring mode?
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2117
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:19 am quote
Is the original engine a 2-port or 3-port? If it's a 3-port, you can definitely rebuild it to be as fast as you pretty much want it to be.

If you drop in a new motor, you'll need to migrate the gears into the new cases. This just came up over in the 6v AC thread, but I have stock LML gearing and a 22t clutch in my VBB right now along with a Malossi 166 and while it's a beast once it gets into the power curve, the curve is so narrow it's not fun to ride.

If I were building up a motor from scratch with a high-but-sane budget, I'd go with a RD350 reed, long stroke crank, and a BGM 177. That's what I basically have in my Stella now and it's a wide power band, but will still pull power wheelies at half throttle.

I was under the impression that P200 motors are hard to come by in the EU, but if you really want to go crazy, do something similar, but with a 200 base. I'm probably going to do something similar down the road for my GL or my Sprint, but first I have some house projects to do first in the name of Domestic Harmony.

As to the 8" versus 10" debate, I like the feel of 8" bikes because they're just a little bit lower to the ground, and even at highway speeds, the the issue I had was the lack of quality suspension and wheels more than anything. Now, though, you can get tubeless 8" rims (but not split rims), I even have speed-rated Heidenau tires on it, albeit with tubes.

Probably my biggest complaint about 8" wheels is that you're a little bit limited on exhaust pipe options due to lack of clearance for a tuned pipe or some of the bigger box exhausts.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:57 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
Is the original engine a 2-port or 3-port? If it's a 3-port, you can definitely rebuild it to be as fast as you pretty much want it to be.
2 ports
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:02 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
I was under the impression that P200 motors are hard to come by in the EU, but if you really want to go crazy, do something similar, but with a 200 base. I'm
This is true.
But I could, if I really wanted to, buy new P200 crankcases from Malossi from SIP...
There's still the option of the T5. I am more and more intrigued by it. Still wondering if it's possible to tour on it, or if it's basically an "ON/OFF" setup.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:01 am quote
T5 can be improved by adding a kit e.g.. Malossi 172. It will help with hills, head winds and a pillion. It's a great engine and well worth buying at a good price. Otherwise, look out for a PX200 motor. You get power when it matters for touring and carrying two people, without the stresses put on a kitted and tuned 125/150.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:46 pm quote
Ok. Things escalated quickly

About to pull the trigger on a completely rebuilt P200 engine...


31C1B302-B466-4EE1-82B1-3D344E2E5224.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6991
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:00 pm quote
oh dear!
Looks very well done on the outside and likely inside as well. Nice attention to detail. Dare I ask the entry fee?

PS You're gonna love the torque!
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2117
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:23 pm quote
Are you going to put a 8" conversion kit on it and upgear, or just run with 10" in the back?
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:47 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Looks very well done on the outside and likely inside as well. Nice attention to detail. Dare I ask the entry fee?

PS You're gonna love the torque!
Everything is new, bloc is mounted by a magician with years of experience.
1750 eur
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:49 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
Are you going to put a 8" conversion kit on it and upgear, or just run with 10" in the back?
This should run with 8 inch. These older px engines are 8inch compatible
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:50 pm quote
Double

Last edited by DD_VES on Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:53 pm; edited 3 times in total
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:51 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Looks very well done on the outside and likely inside as well. Nice attention to detail. Dare I ask the entry fee?

PS You're gonna love the torque!


B4DA954E-1831-441A-835B-B4E73BF232B3.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:54 pm quote
Picture

3AE45030-B329-4010-8798-66B43E75DAB9.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:55 pm quote
Another one

CC3071EC-8234-4C19-B81A-D2FFEF9186E5.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:55 pm quote
Last

7E107427-7F62-4A60-A9F7-009082EE4028.jpeg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1177
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:58 pm quote
SCORE!
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:27 pm quote
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 am quote
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6991
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:31 am quote
qascooter wrote:
SCORE!
Double score, looks like the motor comes w/ a hookup to the builder and he knows all the right stuff. Very handsome motor and I rather like the looks of that Sito+ on there.

Gonna be a wicked bike but get that damn tear fixed right soon so it can handle all this new power!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:47 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
qascooter wrote:
SCORE!
Double score, looks like the motor comes w/ a hookup to the builder
What does this mean (for an non-native speaker)?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6991
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:43 am quote
Score #1: Terrific motor
Score #2: Continuing good relationship with the expert builder
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:52 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Going up, you'll only have one option with a 65T primary, and that's a 24T clutch. That's a good option with 10" wheels and a mild touring tune.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:49 am quote
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Going up, you'll only have one option with a 65T primary, and that's a 24T clutch. That's a good option with 10" wheels and a mild touring tune.
This would be to get a higher top speed, correct?
I don't think I need that, I'm already scared now
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4756
Location: So Cal
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:57 am quote
Bigger motor should be fun, but do not... repeat... do not go to 10 wheels. Please keep the 8s your lovely VBB was intended to have. Maybe change out the kickstart lever to keep it a sleeper.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:26 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Going up, you'll only have one option with a 65T primary, and that's a 24T clutch. That's a good option with 10" wheels and a mild touring tune.
This would be to get a higher top speed, correct?
I don't think I need that, I'm already scared now
It's not about the top speed, although it will increase with an upgear. For me, it's nice to cruise at lower RPM. You'll be able to cruise at 90kmh at ~5500 RPM which would be a really nice comfortable ride. This is with 24/62 and 8" wheels.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 146
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:55 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Bigger motor should be fun, but do not... repeat... do not go to 10 wheels. Please keep the 8s your lovely VBB was intended to have. Maybe change out the kickstart lever to keep it a sleeper.
I will not, unless it's really not safe.
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