My '63 VBB2T project
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Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1213
Location: UK (South East)
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:09 am quote
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Going up, you'll only have one option with a 65T primary, and that's a 24T clutch. That's a good option with 10" wheels and a mild touring tune.
This would be to get a higher top speed, correct?
I don't think I need that, I'm already scared now
It's not about the top speed, although it will increase with an upgear. For me, it's nice to cruise at lower RPM. You'll be able to cruise at 90kmh at ~5500 RPM which would be a really nice comfortable ride. This is with 24/62 and 8" wheels.
As per my earlier suggestion (and that of SoCal), you'll need a different primary gear to give you the best options. The 62T means you can play with several clutch gears to get where you want. However it does mean splitting the engine.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:56 am quote
Iím honestly not ready to split this engine.. will see how it goes after break in..
In the meanwhile, if I want to go fast I still have my plastic GTS300
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:48 am quote
Anybody an idea about the carb issue?

Everything is running great, except that I cannot even get close to the 2 1/2 turns out of the idle screw.
Itís almost completely closed (clockwise), otherwise the scoot will not hold its idle.

Thanks!

Last edited by DD_VES on Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:23 am quote
Idle screw might be cross threaded or bent, slide could be worn or warped, or you could have the wrong screw... How far does the slide open with the screw all the way in? Can you post a pic looking down the carb with the scoot idling and the filter off?

Last edited by SoCalGuy on Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 680
Location: california
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:24 am quote
DD - you got the right guy in SoCal for this.
One question to clarify tho - do you mean the idle screw or the mixture screw?
Quote:
I cannot even get close to the 2 1/2 turns out if the idle screw
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:27 am quote
Hi, I mean idle screw (the one on the top).
Iím not near the scoot now, but will post a pic this weekend!
Thanks allready!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:13 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Idle screw might be cross threaded or bent, slide could be worn or warped, or you could have the wrong screw... How far does the slide open with the screw all the way in? Can you post a pic looking down the carb with the scoot idling and the filter off?
Hi!
This is a picture of how the slide is now.

E518CBB0-0E98-4C65-82A3-89A316386CF5.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:17 am quote
As I wrote above, the idle sounds great.

Iím curious about your opinions, but I might have found it myself...
I was taking care not to force or break anything, so I mistakingly thougth my idle screw was at the end.
But it was not. I was able to turn it clockwise from its positionnon the above picture for 2 more complete turns.
Thereís a spring on it which made me think it was completely in...
I can turn it even further, but was again afraid to break something.

What do you guys think?

Stupid no?
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:23 am quote
I think you solved it. Good work!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:50 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
I think you solved it. Good work!
Thanks, but thatís too much honour
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:15 am quote
No DD, SoCalGuy is right on the money.

The first time I messed with the idle screw I ran into the same thing you did. After opening up the throttle a bit I realized I was pushing against the slide and it wasn't sliding it open and I didn't want to crush anything by twisting too tight.

You are not alone!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:45 am quote
Is there anybody who has a picture of a Vespa with 10" in the back and 8" in the front?

Thanks!

Last edited by DD_VES on Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:49 am quote
Ebeth... calling ebeth... come in ebeth...

My advice is donít do it. It messes with the geometry of the scoot and ruins the classic look.

But if youíre determined to try a 10Ē inch wheel, SIP has this:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/rim+star+pattern+pascoli+for_80185000

Keep in mind the brakes will be less powerful if you use a conversion wheel. Doing it ďrightĒ requires changing the hubs and brakes too.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:56 am quote
i am here..
hyhyhy here i come

currently i am using 8 in front and 10 in rear




but my advice u can always find a gs150 rims for the front section to match the rear 10' tyre as in my case i have to make one out of 3 rims



this is both in 10






good luck with the project and cheer mate
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rusty Bluebadge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 695
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:03 pm quote
IF you add a GS 4 lug wheel to the front, along with the one on the back, you may need to adjust the mudguard as the tire may hit the back of it when braking. Some adjust with washers but not too much as the mudguard will rub the legshield. Also, after the washers, new holes may need drilling to line up the screws on the side for the fork.

May I ask why you think you may need a 10 inch wheel on the rear?

BTW, Allstyles have the GS rim, too. http://www.allstyles-scooters.com/acatalog/vespa_rims-p1.html
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:21 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Keep in mind the brakes will be less powerful if you use a conversion wheel. Doing it ďrightĒ requires changing the hubs and brakes too.
I have a p2 engine in it, which came with a complete 10" hub and brakes

Last edited by DD_VES on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:23 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
IF you add a GS 4 lug wheel to the front, along with the one on the back, you may need to adjust the mudguard as the tire may hit the back of it when braking. Some adjust with washers but not too much as the mudguard will rub the legshield. Also, after the washers, new holes may need drilling to line up the screws on the side for the fork.

May I ask why you think you may need a 10 inch wheel on the rear?

BTW, Allstyles have the GS rim, too. http://www.allstyles-scooters.com/acatalog/vespa_rims-p1.html
I donít want to put 10" in the front, but was considering 10" in the back in order to arrange for correct gearing without opening the engine. Only doing it if you hardly see it though.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:28 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
hyhyhy here i come

currently i am using 8 in front and 10 in rear




but my advice u can always find a gs150 rims for the front section to match the rear 10' tyre as in my case i have to make one out of 3 rims



this is both in 10






good luck with the project and cheer mate
Thanks buddy!
If youíre near the scoot one of these days, could you please take some pics directly from the side, and not to high? Just to be able to judge correctly the size difference...

Thanks!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm quote
Quote:
Only doing it if you hardly see it though.
You wonít really know how it looks or rides until you try it. If you already have the parts, might as well give it a go and see what you think.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:35 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
Only doing it if you hardly see it though.
You wonít really know how it looks or rides until you try it. If you already have the parts, might as well give it a go and see what you think.
I have everything but the wheel and tyres..
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:39 pm quote
And just to try it I also need to change the hub seal I think.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:43 pm quote
You can get a wheel and tire premounted for well under 100 Euro.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/30300010/Tyre+SIP+Perfromer+20+.aspx?_country=E993AB67-6807-4109-BBED-F6374EBF9F9B&gpc_origin=shopping&gpc_feed_alias=_pid=30300010&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp5_qBRDBARIsANxdcimf_eAXjS9IgSpNdrWnxmiKExlS0EsjhPoE1_QrT8pDIQdxTl-rjjEaAm4fEALw_wcB

Note the P hub on the rear wonít match your front hub, if details like that matter to you.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rusty Bluebadge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 695
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:28 pm quote
Before changing the look of a very nice scooter there's also the option of kitting the 150 motor for better speed through the gears. Most upgrade the top end vs putting a P200 motor on a 8 inch bike. As you know the best option now for that motor in a VBB is to open up and change the gearing.

If it rides fine now and you still have the 150, keep riding it but through a 2 port Pinasco kit on the 150, add a bigger box exhaust and see how you like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzyxw5wnsuQ. You may get the urge to tune it a lil. Since you're riding now, time to repair is not a huge factor and can go at your own pace.

I don't consider myself a purist or anything but a VBB and a Super looks better on 8's.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7317
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:36 am quote
10" 8"
VBA w/ Rally 180 motor. Has run and rides OKish but never fast or far. It will be getting another 8" motor again. I am rounding up parts for doing an 8/10 fork conversion now for another project that the Rally motor will be going in. I can make a parts list when I figure it all out unless somebody else can provide the info now ? Never done it before.

IMG_20190806_122227930_HDR.jpg

IMG_20190806_122405758_HDR.jpg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:00 pm quote
Oh great, thanks!
This allows me to decide!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7317
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:37 am quote
So are you gonna try it? Is there nobody close by who can loan you their 10" spare?

I didn't mind the ride at all and would have tried further and faster except the Rally motor, which has never been opened, was too fussy to risk trying it. I'm only changing plans because I now have a decent 8" motor for the VBA and the Rally motor wants a rebuild w/ at least new seals.

The original 8" wheel looks odd with the 10" so my plan was to use a Super front hub & wheel that looks like this in front and matches the 10" wheel nicely.
I have a hub & rim I could give you, but shipping could be challenging and you'd need to source a Super style axle.

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:33 am quote
Hi V oodoo,

No Im not going to do it. The picture of the left side of your grey bike made me decide not to.
For me, the difference between the two sizes is too big
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7317
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:39 am quote
So... convert the motor to 8" or convert the fork to 10", which way do you think you want to go?
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:09 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
So... convert the motor to 8" or convert the fork to 10", which way do you think you want to go?
I'll just ride it slower

No, I'm first going to break it in and then test it.
If needed, I'll replace the clutch gear cog by a DRT 24 and see.

If it's still not OK, I have 2 options:
- Change the gearing in the engine
- Buy a 10" bike and put the P2 in it

We'll see. But as soon as I know, you guys will know it too
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1213
Location: UK (South East)
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:23 pm quote
DD, you said yourself that you don't want to ride at 90km/h (that's only 56mph) because you have a GTS300 for faster riding, and it sounds like you really want an 8" wheel at the back, yet you bought a very expensive and relatively powerful PX200 engine. To get the P2 engine to work well with 8" wheels, you will need to change the gearing (example: 62T primary and 24T clutch).

Is it an option to resell the P2 engine or use it in a different scooter, and then buy something like a 150 Super 3 port motor (VBC1M) with a DR177 kit and SIP Road? It really would be the better solution for what you need it to do.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
DD, you said yourself that you don't want to ride at 90km/h (that's only 56mph) because you have a GTS300 for faster riding, and it sounds like you really want an 8" wheel at the back, yet you bought a very expensive and relatively powerful PX200 engine. To get the P2 engine to work well with 8" wheels, you will need to change the gearing (example: 62T primary and 24T clutch).

Is it an option to resell the P2 engine or use it in a different scooter, and then buy something like a 150 Super 3 port motor (VBC1M) with a DR177 kit and SIP Road? It really would be the better solution for what you need it to do.
Well...

If I buy a 3th Vespa, I will have to iron my shirts myself..
I don't think I will ever sell the P2 engine.. I like the "myth" around it too much...
I might change the gearing at some point, but not now..
There is one thing that bugs me about it, and that is that one of the bolts of the engine has been drilled out and replaced by a helicoil and bolt...

I'll see what I'll do..
Maybe it's exactly what I like once it's broken in...

Last edited by DD_VES on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:42 pm quote
And BTW.. There is still a lot to do on the scoot. And I still have a smile pile of parts in my garage..
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:05 pm quote
Guys, quick question.
The locking lever of my engine cowl has some play (front/rear) in it. I allready replaced the white plastic bushing, but it still if too much to the front. I'm afraid I'll lose my cowl one day.
Any tip or trick on this?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:09 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
Guys, quick question.
The locking lever of my engine cowl has some play (front/rear) in it. I allready replaced the white plastic bushing, but it still if too much to the front. I'm afraid I'll lose my cowl one day.
Any tip or trick on this?
u need this lock

some folks actually use it here to prevent some thieft steal their engine cowl

as for the look on 8 and 10 here's a old pic i found back in 2009

good luck on the bike and cheer mate

WhatsApp Image 2019-02-04 at 11.04.45.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:57 am quote
koenig blues wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
Guys, quick question.
The locking lever of my engine cowl has some play (front/rear) in it. I allready replaced the white plastic bushing, but it still if too much to the front. I'm afraid I'll lose my cowl one day.
Any tip or trick on this?
u need this lock

some folks actually use it here to prevent some thieft steal their engine cowl

as for the look on 8 and 10 here's a old pic i found back in 2009

good luck on the bike and cheer mate
Hi!
And thanks!

I donít understand the lock, where does it go?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:49 pm quote
sorry for late reply, took sometime asking who use it here among friends

WhatsApp Image 2019-09-13 at 17.20.54.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:35 am quote
koenig blues wrote:
sorry for late reply, took sometime asking who use it here among friends
Nice! Thanks!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1103

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm quote
Just spent the past 2 hours reading up on your project bike. I have a 63 vbb as well that has been on hold for a number of years, you have inspired me, nice.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7317
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:18 pm quote
@ebeth, tnx for nice piccy, makes 8/10 look quite tolerable!

I'd rock this one any day and all day long. Like a '56 Chevy on a bad rake.

56chev.jpg

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: Bangkok
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:53 pm quote
[quote="V oodoo"]

[img]http://members.modernvespa.net/v_oodoo/uploads/img_20190806_122227930_hdr_15956.jpg
[/img]

[img]http://members.modernvespa.net/v_oodoo/uploads/img_20190806_122405758_hdr_21315.jpg
[/img]




hahaha. This looks like a new bike for Ebeth and my friends the Pourtuges.
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