First full restoration project.. 1980 P200E
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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Tue May 07, 2019 8:21 pm quote
Right on Swiss! Thank you for the pictures. I'm going to enjoy following!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Tue May 07, 2019 11:50 pm quote
That really looks like a low milage engine. Don't re-use the studs, they streach. That crank is junk, don't even think about it. You have the worst type of cylinder head, we call it the American one, which makes perfect sense, considering. I would re-use the cylinder (if its the 12hp one) but bin the head and piston.

Are you wanting to restore this engine as exact original or fix some known issues to make it go better?
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed May 08, 2019 3:29 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
That really looks like a low milage engine. Don't re-use the studs, they streach. That crank is junk, don't even think about it. You have the worst type of cylinder head, we call it the American one, which makes perfect sense, considering. I would re-use the cylinder (if its the 12hp one) but bin the head and piston.

Are you wanting to restore this engine as exact original or fix some known issues to make it go better?
I'd like to keep it mostly original but was planning on a bigger top end for more power, and a DC ignition system for led headlight.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Wed May 08, 2019 5:55 pm quote
Flywheel off and stator plate out. The woodruff key was rusted into the flywheel cover so it took some effort and finally popped. There appears to be a lot of "salt" inside this area specifically coming from the wires on the stator plate as pictured. Didn't get a shot of the salt inbetween the stator plate back and the electrical coils mounted to the plate as that seemed to be where most of this salt is coming from. This makes me think the stator plate probably needs replacing due to corrosion.

BTW is it me or is that fly side seal brand new? More and more confirmations this engine has seen practically no use.

Flywheel magnets hold a 17mm wrench fine. Gonna clean out the rust and reuse this part. woodruff key junked.

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rusty

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woodruff key groove was rusted stuck.

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woodruff key rusted.

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closeup of the "salt" inside this side.

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You can see a ton of salt in the hole of the stator plate where the wires come out. there is a lot of salt behind the electrical coils on the front side.

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salt on the wire sheath at the engine case opening point.

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all the salt visible inside this flywheel section.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Wed May 08, 2019 8:44 pm quote
It looks like that stator can be cleaned up. Try compressed air and a tooth brush to get rid of the "salt". Are the wires brittle? If so, it just needs to be rebuilt. ScooterMercato or Gickspeed will rebuild it and from pictures they both do a fine job.

I rebuilt my own and then checked the ohms to ensure it was working. And it does! Check out Getting an old Vespa (P200) back on the road about three quarters down the first page. I don't know how to link to the exact post.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Thu May 09, 2019 9:15 am quote
qascooter wrote:
It looks like that stator can be cleaned up. Try compressed air and a tooth brush to get rid of the "salt". Are the wires brittle? If so, it just needs to be rebuilt. ScooterMercato or Gickspeed will rebuild it and from pictures they both do a fine job.

I rebuilt my own and then checked the ohms to ensure it was working. And it does! Check out Getting an old Vespa (P200) back on the road about three quarters down the first page. I don't know how to link to the exact post.
Here is close up of the corrosion salt on the coils..

IMG_20190509_092905.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am quote
I'd clean it up with a wire brush, toothbrush, electric spray, compressed air, etc. But what do I know... I'm all for saving what you can. You might want to check the impedance of the coils. Stator Values Wiki. And if the coils are good, then clean it up!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:52 am quote
This project has been sitting on hold while I get the 166 kit installed on my 05 Stella. But while waiting for cylinder studs to arrive this weekend, I went through the bucket of rusted hardware in vinegar to clean everything up. Vinegar worked great on steel and iron parts. Some other parts that are maybe aluminum were eaten by the vinegar, and many of the small bolts weren't worth sitting there cleaning up. So I decided to buy the PX hardware kit from scooter Mercato when I get to that stage. It was good anyways to see what can be saved and to test out the owatrol penetrating oil on the cleaned up parts. That stuff works great! I could probably use the clutch basket but the gear cog plate was pitted and I'm planning on replacing the clutch with new anyways.

Given the 05 Stella should be back together tonight or tomorrow with new top end I'm looking ahead to cleaning up the frame on this P200. Just wondering if anyone has any tips to getting as much rust out of the frame tunnel? I'm gonna try to stick a BBQ grill cleaning scraper inside the tunnel and hopefully get as much as I can out. Then the next trick is to somehow coat as much of the tunnel insides with owatrol oil to arrest that rust.

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:40 am quote
Rust removal started
I started attacking the rust on the frame today, using scotch Brite pads on all the worst spots. The stages of restoration I am planning on are:

1. Scotch Brite the worst rust
2. Wet sand the whole frame
3. Penetrating oil (owatrol oil) to coat and neutralize all rust spots
4 clay bar the whole frame
5. Maybe wax and buff if clay bar isn't enough

My question is that while I am knocking back all the rust with scotch Brite, I am wondering if I should go get some Rust-Oleum black or red/maroon spray rust neutralizing paint to coat the whole bottom, wheel well, under tank and floor tunnel? Or should the owatrol oil be good enough to protect all of that?

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:45 am quote
Another question. How do you get these cowl grounding guides out without breaking them?

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:32 pm quote
OK I did a lot of general work on the frame and stuff today, not really a lot of work, but a lot of little things here and there just cause it was raining and I didn't want to fully commit to anything in depth.

As I said previously, I knocked back a lot of the rust with scotch brite. Next I used a ball peen hammer and dolly set to knock the front fender back into shape as close as looks fine for me. Yeah it's not perfect but from 2 ft away it looks fine which is all I need, since I'm leaving this bike with character. First time with ball peen hammer and dolly. Im satisfied with it.

Then I attacked the rust on the gas cap and gas tank opening with a brass wire wheel. I am not sure if the inside of the tank needs the vinegar treatment that everyone has been using lately. Let me know what you guys think if I should do it or if just blowing the dust and dirt out from inside that has collected from me sanding and crap will be good enough?

Finally I started using scotch brite on the original headset cover. This thing had what looks to be black melted plastic splattered all over it. After using scotch brite, this black plastic has started to come off, revealing the original plastic below which has heat damage. I still have some of it to get rid of, but a lot of it has come off already. It started getting me thinking that possibly there was an electrical fire in the headset, or the headlight blew up and melted the cover. Only problem with that theory is the inside of the plastic headset is perfect, with paint still perfect on it. Regardless, sanding it down got me thinking I actually kindof like the chemical burn splatter effect that is going on with it. I am wondering if I could somehow paint the headset with a contrast color like neon green or purple, then wipe it away leaving it only in the melted splatter sections. I wonder if there is some sort of paint that only adheres to plastic, and refuses to adhere to other paint? When I used to do stone lithography, that was a similar technique to what I am hoping I can do with this. You drew on the surface of the stone with a wax pen or something like that to create the positive image, then coated the stone with basically a tar like solution, let it dry, then washed off the wax positive area leaving the tar covering the negative area, then etched the stone which would create an invisible positive on the stone that was resistant to water. Washed the tar off the surface of the stone, then you could print with ink and water. So yeah, not sure if possible with plastic and paint, but I think it would look awesome to somehow bring out the chemical splatter pattern on this headset and leave it. If so, this bike will be named CHUD!

Went home after the morning and early afternoon working in the garage with a lot of questions. To summarize here are some things I am thinking about and looking for solutions:

1. how to remove the plastic cowl pin guides from the frame?
2. should I paint the bottom and insides with rustoleum or is penetrating oil good enough?
3. do I need to give the vinegar treatment to the gas tank given how it doesn't look that bad?
4. how to paint the damaged area of the headset while leaving the original color of the headset intact? CHUD style! vice versa, is there a way to paint only rust? cause then I could carry the chud style onto the rust spots only.
5. (further down the line) I am planning on putting a malossi mhr kit on this engine. If so, Jack221 suggested a dellorto carb will not be enough. How can I keep the auto mix oil system in place? If not, how do I plug the automix hole but not make it permanent? In case I decide to go back and use auto mix? In this case of not using the oil tank.. then I would upgrade to a larger capacity gas tank and the process of vinegar would be not necessary.

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original dented fender

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original dented fender

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reshaped fender

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reshaped fender

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reshaped fender

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gas cap brass wire wheel'd

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gas tank opening brass wire wheel'd

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vinegar treatment needed? or just blow the dust out?

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headset melted/fire?

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headset melted/fire?

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headset melted/fire?

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CHUD! how to paint only melted plastic, not painted surfaces?

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CHUD! how to paint only melted plastic, not painted surfaces?

IMG_20190618_150519_chemburn.jpg
CHUD! how to paint only melted plastic, not painted surfaces?

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:39 pm quote
btw, C.H.U.D. style would need purple splatter, and dark yellow headlight lens. ha! dirty old school nyc sewer monster vespa!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqDToaLuJ7I

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Last edited by swiss1939 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:21 pm quote
I am looking at parts trying to plan what to build on this. I know that I have already mentioned planning on installing a Malossi MHR 221 kit on this, but I just realized this is up there in price. So I was on SIP's website trying to figure out other options that might be more affordable.

Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on some of these options in terms of getting an engine with lots of torque and being able to cruise at 60-65 without redlining RPMs.

Here are the options I am looking at:

1. Malossi MHR 221cc Aluminum $550 with 60mm crank $200 (approx. $750) with case matching and port timing setup (not sure about shaping exhaust port with aluminum cylinder)

2. Polini 208cc Cast Iron $303, MMW head $129 with 60mm crank $200 (approx. $639). Long stroke crank bumps it up to 217cc and can definitely do some case matching and port timing of exhaust, etc.

3. Serie Pro 200cc cast iron $265, MMW head $129 with 60mm crank $200, exhaust manifold stub $32 (approx. $626). Long stroke crank bumps it up to 208cc and can definitely do case matching and port timing of exhaust
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+kit+serie+pro+200+cc+_41470700

4. Use the original cylinder, buy a new GS piston $138, MMW head $129 and 60mm crankshaft $200 (approx. $467), gets me to a 208cc engine then set it up with case matching and port timing adjustments as usual.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:35 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
1. how to remove the plastic cowl pin guides from the frame?
2. should I paint the bottom and insides with rustoleum or is penetrating oil good enough?
3. do I need to give the vinegar treatment to the gas tank given how it doesn't look that bad?
4. how to paint the damaged area of the headset while leaving the original color of the headset intact? CHUD style! vice versa, is there a way to paint only rust? cause then I could carry the chud style onto the rust spots only.
5. (further down the line) I am planning on putting a malossi mhr kit on this engine. If so, Jack221 suggested a dellorto carb will not be enough. How can I keep the auto mix oil system in place? If not, how do I plug the automix hole but not make it permanent? In case I decide to go back and use auto mix? In this case of not using the oil tank.. then I would upgrade to a larger capacity gas tank and the process of vinegar would be not necessary.
Looking Good Swiss! I'll give a couple of them a go - It's only my opinion!

1) A heat gun is your friend, and from the inside out...
2) I'd be more inclined to use 0000 steel wool then oil. The tunnel I'd be tempted to Ospho it then paint it.
3) The tank looks good! What does the top of the tank look like? You'd have to take out the fuel tap to see it, or a little snake camera. But it looks sweet in there, from what I see on the picture.
4) No Idea - sand smooth and paint, or let your freak flag fly!, Oh, artist flag!
5) No Idea on this one either....

Hope this helps! It's looking good!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
1) A heat gun is your friend, and from the inside out...
You mean heat up what looks to be heat shrink on the inside, then pull that heat shrink off and the harder plastic guide should be able to slide out?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:31 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
qascooter wrote:
1) A heat gun is your friend, and from the inside out...
You mean heat up what looks to be heat shrink on the inside, then pull that heat shrink off and the harder plastic guide should be able to slide out?
Yes, but try to remove the tubes first without heat, and maybe something like WD-40. But you don't want to get that on your paint while you're prepping it.
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:08 pm quote
Seems like you're making progress and have a plan. That's great.

Definitely treat the bottom of the scooter with some type of rust prevention. After cleaning that up, you're gonna have areas with bare metal that's close to the ground. Any type of oil will not last the water, sand, or salt you may have in your area. That Rustoleum or some type of rust treatment/prevention paint that used on a under carriage of autos should do. Youtube have plenty videos on how under cars are treated for rust. Using that approach may work. Afterward you can cover it up with a rattle can that somewhat match the color since its not visible.

BTW, a little CLR with that scrub pad may do wonders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMWv_G0ZnOc.

Removing rust from the tunnel will be a job I would start first because may need to flip over several times to remove liquid, rust, and dust. I think on one of Voodoo projects after removing rust in the tunnel he just poured the rust treatment paint/product in the tunnel and sloshed it around with a rag so it can get everywhere.

Good luck!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:25 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
After cleaning that up, you're gonna have areas with bare metal that's close to the ground. Any type of oil will not last the water, sand, or salt you may have in your area. That Rustoleum or some type of rust treatment/prevention paint that used on a under carriage of autos should do.
Yeah I was worried that penetrating oil exposed to water, salt and typical road grime wouldn't last long. I will try to find a rustoleum spray can that is close in color.
rowdyc wrote:
Removing rust from the tunnel will be a job I would start first because may need to flip over several times to remove liquid, rust, and dust. I think on one of Voodoo projects after removing rust in the tunnel he just poured the rust treatment paint/product in the tunnel and sloshed it around with a rag so it can get everywhere.
I was thinking of just getting the rustoleum rust neutralizing spray paint and sticking the nozzle into the floor tunnel from both the gas tank and the brake pedal openings and just going to town. Hopefully that will coat all that. Which leads me to another question. Do you coat the front fork tunnel? Or just the area that is underneath the horn cover?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7065
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:05 am quote
If you want to really really protect inside the tunnel, engine compartment, inside mudguard and the bottom of the floor, consider treating w/ Ospho( http://www.ospho.com/directions.htm) after removing dirt & loose rust then using POR15( https://www.por15.com ) on that. Or just get POR15's 3 part system to get a good cleaner/degreaser too.

You should be OK inside the fork tube, it's heavy tubing. The rusty sheetmetal around it, sure.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:06 am quote
Thanks V oodoo. I'll try to find one of those.

I found a BBQ grill brush at home Depot that works pretty well for getting into the floor tunnel. I scrubbed it from both ends best I could, then used scotch Brite pad coated in clr to scrub as much as I could inside by hand then went back in with the bbq brush. I think it's as clean as I'll be able to get it without sand blasting. I'll try to coat it with some serious rust neutralizer and coater a few layers by dumping it in and rolling frame around. Then coat it with Rust-Oleum spray can and call it.

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Metal brush only

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Metal brush only

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After clr and more metal brushing

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After clr and more metal brushing

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:14 pm quote
Steering column lower race
Should I pull this out and replace it, or do you think it will be good enough to just wire wheel it in place to clean the crusty grease out?

EDIT: I'm going to replace this and all the other steering race/bearing parts upper and lower.

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Last edited by swiss1939 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:34 pm quote
Wow, that tunnel came out nice! Good find on the BBQ brushes. Ospho is some good stuff. I've used it on the underside of a trailer. Turned everything black, then painted right over it - neutralized the rust nicely.
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Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:03 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
Yes, but try to remove the tubes first without heat, and maybe something like WD-40. But you don't want to get that on your paint while you're prepping it.
I was finally able to remove the cowl pin guide/electrical contacts. Heat gun to loosen up the shrink tubing and pulled it off. I have plenty of shrink tubing I will just put new on when I replace. Also took a plastic automotive body panel removal tool to pop the actual plastic electrical contact guides out. I'll check continuity on them, but I believe they will be reusable.
qascooter wrote:
Wow, that tunnel came out nice! Good find on the BBQ brushes. Ospho is some good stuff. I've used it on the underside of a trailer. Turned everything black, then painted right over it - neutralized the rust nicely.
V oodoo wrote:
If you want to really really protect inside the tunnel, engine compartment, inside mudguard and the bottom of the floor, consider treating w/ Ospho( http://www.ospho.com/directions.htm) after removing dirt & loose rust then using POR15( https://www.por15.com ) on that. Or just get POR15's 3 part system to get a good cleaner/degreaser too.
I'm sure it could have been much better, but its good enough for me. I'm not gonna use Ospho as I have a few other products already purchased I will use. I already have a couple cans of Owatrol Oil and ACF-50 to kill the rust in there as layer 1, then I will try that por15 clear rust preventive coating as you suggested as layer 2. Layer 3 will be some base rustoleum primer for the underside of everything.
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1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
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Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:32 pm quote
Owatrol Oil and ACF-50 are rust inhibitors. They don’t “kill” rust, they prevent it from forming, so they wouldn’t be much use to you for this project. The Ospho Voodoo recommended is a much better choice. It’s an acid product that actually neutralizes existing rust. It’s thin, easy to work with, and inexpensive. You just slosh or spray it around inside the tunnel, then paint over it.

Of the products you mentioned, Por15 would also work right on the rust. It’s a rust encapsulator-type paint that’s meant to be applied directly to rusty metal. It comes in different colors, and can be left as is or painted over. Not cheap though.

Hope this helps.
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:21 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Owatrol Oil and ACF-50 are rust inhibitors. They don’t “kill” rust, they prevent it from forming, so they wouldn’t be much use to you for this project. The Ospho Voodoo recommended is a much better choice. It’s an acid product that actually neutralizes existing rust. It’s thin, easy to work with, and inexpensive. You just slosh or spray it around inside the tunnel, then paint over it.

Of the products you mentioned, Por15 would also work right on the rust. It’s a rust encapsulator-type paint that’s meant to be applied directly to rusty metal. It comes in different colors, and can be left as is or painted over. Not cheap though.

Hope this helps.
Ok. I will use ospho underneath. The owatrol I am using for visible rust on the top frame sections because I don't want to remove the rust patina leaving bare metal spots among the painted frame. So I am knocking it back with scotch Brite and coating it with owatrol which does say that it saturates completely into the existing rust turning it dark and stops it while creating a protective coating that can be painted over. It does require upkeep, which is fine for visible rust, I am willing to coat it every few months. The inside and under side though I don't want to have to deal with regularly and would like to kill the rust completely and cover with painted protecting later.
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:29 pm quote
Wet sanding
Did a rough pass of wet sanding over the whole frame today with 1500 grit. Gotta remove some stuck screws in the horn cast area to get a better coverage of that area. Then gotta do a 2000 grit wet sand, clay bar then wax and buff.

It's lost its Sheen right now but starting to look better. Think it will come back fine with the rest of the process.

Still doing little things here and there without fully committing to one thing at once. Very hesitant to commit to one repair at a time. Raining every day so I'm just doing a little here and there to progress while passing the time before I can ride my Stella.

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:46 am quote
P200 Hardware Kit
I ordered a P/PX Hardware kit from Scooter Mercato this week to jump start assembly of the frame when I get to it after dealing with the rust first. I just noticed after receiving the kit that there was an asterisk next to the VSX1T model compatibility list for this hardware kit, saying is only compatible with p's after 1985. Just wondering if anyone would have a guess as to what is different in terms of hardware from a 1985 and earlier P vs a 1986 and on P?

I assume its mostly compatible as it is a kit for px/LML/P post 1985, and probably only one section of the scoot is different. The kit does come with both front and rear drum brake hardware, which I assumed is good for 1980 P200.

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Hardware_2/HARDWAREKIT-PX
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
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Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:14 pm quote

I think this looks it's from the graveyard or it's being magnafluxed or something . I even see a hovering green halo! What is that on there?
I like that you're hanging on to the old paint, at least for a while. This fad likely will fade mostly for newer bikes, but it's cheap fun, the old paint is bulletproof where it survives and whoever does paint it will have a solid foundation.

Looks like your original aluminum leggy trim has survived pretty much intact w/ no scrapes or gouges. You'll be amazed how nice that can polish up after light file & fine sandpaper to remove any burrs. I can loan you this to help fix that single kink - PM if interested.


You could pad the jaws w/ leather or something and feel free to file any rough edges. I've used it both straightening/shaping the frame & dealing w/ loose misshapen trim.
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Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:50 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
I think this looks it's from the graveyard or it's being magnafluxed or something . I even see a hovering green halo! What is that on there?
I like that you're hanging on to the old paint, at least for a while. This fad likely will fade mostly for newer bikes, but it's cheap fun, the old paint is bulletproof where it survives and whoever does paint it will have a solid foundation.
the green is photoshopped onto the image to show an example of what I would like to achieve.
V oodoo wrote:
Looks like your original aluminum leggy trim has survived pretty much intact w/ no scrapes or gouges. You'll be amazed how nice that can polish up after light file & fine sandpaper to remove any burrs. I can loan you this to help fix that single kink - PM if interested.

You could pad the jaws w/ leather or something and feel free to file any rough edges. I've used it both straightening/shaping the frame & dealing w/ loose misshapen trim.
Do you mean to fix this dent highlighted in this attached image? or do you mean to somehow smooth out the trim lip on the frame itself and not the trim?

img_20190620_155848_2082_b7.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7065
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:48 pm quote
Unless you're planning on replacing the trim anyway, yeah, I'd at least try to see how good I could get it still in place and NOT remove it. How good are you looking for? Otherwise it is good for straightening the leggy edge first if you go new trim. It can be useful for both.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:34 pm quote
I was just trying to bang it straight with a rubber mallet the other day and gave up. I am keeping the original trim as I already took scotch Brite pad to it and it is perfect. Probably gonna use some 0000 steel wool to get it cleaner.

I wouldn't ask to borrow it for one small spot. If I were gonna completely replace the trim them I would use that. I appreciate the offer though! As far as the leg edge, I'm gonna leave it as such now because it's rusted and gonna stay as patina for the recent future. At some point I may completely strip paint and clean up the frame as best as possible including the edges.

I was against leaving original paint and rust patina originally but the more I commit to it, I am now sold on it. I was concerned that leaving rust patina was compromising it, but I see now that with proper treatment and care or should be fine. Especially given it is surface rust. Having fun learning all this stuff.

I may pick up a second p200 project in order to do a complete paint strip and repaint job to get that experience under my belt!
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:21 pm quote
Front fork
Im assuming it would be best to completely disassemble and rebuild the front fork for this project as it has been sitting for over 20 yrs who knows how much of that outside under tarp. So I have been researching how to do this with robot's rebuild video on youtube, but he does not show how to disassemble it.
Just curious what specific tools are required to completely disassemble and reassemble the front fork?


On that note, I happened upon a powder coating place a few blocks from my apartment today when I was taking my neighbor to the grocery store and a furniture store. Sitting outside as he was inside the furniture store, I noticed the shop next to it for the first time was called EAZY Powder Coating. I only noticed cause I saw the owner pull up in his flashy painted truck and it stuck out. So I pulled up next to him and asked him if he does sand blasting as well as powder coating. He was like oh yeah I do it all! I told him I was working on a vespa restoration and was interested in possibly getting the front fork and two 10" hubs blasted and powder coated. He said it would probably cost $60-80. That sounded pretty cheap to me as I have never done this before. Does this sound in line with affordable powder coating elsewhere? I had not planned on getting powder coating done, but since I stumbled upon it I figured what the hell i'll ask anyways!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4825
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:39 pm quote
Fair price, consider doing rims too while you’re at it.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:31 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Fair price, consider doing rims too while you’re at it.
Awesome! I don't think I'll do the rims as I am gonna order SIP tubeless rims for this scoot. I just put on some black sip tubeless rims on my stella and the paint chips off so easily when pulling the tires on and off, so I think I will just go with the basic metal color rims as the paint chipping is annoying to me, and every time I take my current tubeless rims off I get a sharpie and have to cover over a bunch of chips.

I also just realized I will actually need powder coating not just on the fork and hubs, but on the lower headset and shifter tubes as they are the worst part of the frame for original paint, most of it missing.



So I will definitely be getting these parts powder coated.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:16 pm quote
That price sounds reasonable for powder coating but make sure he wasn't quoting you the base silver color and sometimes a clear coat is extra since the item needs powdering and baking twice. The silver is the cheapest and then comes black or maybe white. Adding red powder maybe more. Also trying to match what you have is a difficult task especially with powder and not a liquid paint.

Good idea to powder coat the forks if you don't mind disassembly and assembling forks. Get the wheels powder coated base silver and keep as spare or sell. That headset can be cleaned up since it's off the bike but not sure about the tubes,

But you know how I feel about it....powder coat the whole thing, It will be rust free for a very long time, Maybe he'll mix up a crazy color, too.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:43 pm quote
That's awesome Swiss. Seems really good on the price. I'd love to have somebody in town that powdercoated...
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 367
Location: Central california
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:07 pm quote
Restoration
So I just finished helping a fellow scooter friend paint his scooter. We decided to have the tub powder coated, but in order to powder coat the body, it has to be straight no dents. Took it to a friend of mine “yung son” he hammered all the dents out. Came out perfect no filler. We had the tub coated white. Took the tub and paint matched the color so I could paint the non metal parts.
Remember if your going to powder coat a part it cannot have any filler on the part...at all. Another thing to note is that clear powder coating has zero UV protection. So to clear coat over powder coating is not a good idea as the powder coating will turn yellow because of the sun light. You can clear coat over powder coating, but you need to use automotive clear coat as it has UV protection. I just finished this project last week. I would post pictures but I don’t have any and the scooter is at the owners place. If I have a chance to obtain pictures I will and I will post them.
All of what I posted was really just an FYI....
Scott
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:13 am quote
rowdyc wrote:
Good idea to powder coat the forks if you don't mind disassembly and assembling forks. Get the wheels powder coated base silver and keep as spare or sell. That headset can be cleaned up since it's off the bike but not sure about the tubes,

But you know how I feel about it....powder coat the whole thing, It will be rust free for a very long time, Maybe he'll mix up a crazy color, too.
I wouldn't know if I mind it or not, but I feel I should probably do it since the fork has been sitting outside for quite a while. I've got about 8 old rusty split rims from this bike the guy had when I picked it up, plus another 5 from my stella that I don't use! I guess I could clean them up and paint them, but I don't think there is much market to sell used split rims as it seems everyones got tons of spares.

As far as the tubes, I would think they can do the shifter tube.
qascooter wrote:
That's awesome Swiss. Seems really good on the price. I'd love to have somebody in town that powdercoated...
One of the positives of living in NYC... there are probably thousands of body shops and auto painters in the 5 boroughs. Hundreds of them about a mile from me in the industrial auto body/salvage section of my island. I like to call that road Fury Road! Fury Road is my favorite road!
Sjanuary wrote:
We decided to have the tub powder coated, but in order to powder coat the body, it has to be straight no dents. Took it to a friend of mine “yung son” he hammered all the dents out. Came out perfect no filler. We had the tub coated white. Took the tub and paint matched the color so I could paint the non metal parts.
Remember if your going to powder coat a part it cannot have any filler on the part...at all. Another thing to note is that clear powder coating has zero UV protection. So to clear coat over powder coating is not a good idea as the powder coating will turn yellow because of the sun light. You can clear coat over powder coating, but you need to use automotive clear coat as it has UV protection.
By tub you mean the main frame section? or just the inside below the gas tank? Thanks for the tips on no filler on metal for powder coating and the UV protection info. I did not know that! I do not plan on powder coating any of the frame itself, aside from the lower headset and shifter tube. Other than that, front fork and hubs. Everyone has convinced me to keep the original paint, and I am on board now that I started cleaning it up.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7065
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:30 am quote


No powder coat on the throttle tube and only on the cast portion on the shift tube please. Otherwise they won't fit & rotate right on one end & you'll probably fight to get your grips on at the other end.

No powder coating the unassembled shock(you probably knew that), but you could disassemble and do the spring & cover(if metal).

On the headset, be sure the tube and fork bores are masked as well as the tapped holes.

If you do the fork, again disassemble and have them mask the mating areas.

For masking, you can have them do it or perhaps give you the proper tape, plugs etc to do it yourself so that it can survive the bake off.

You will like the durability of powder coating, it's usually pretty tough.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:05 pm quote
Not here yet as I want to get the rust and frame sorted out first, but trying to plan out my engine build parts list.

Here is what I am thinking for the cylinder/head/crank...

Malossi 210 with Vertex piston:
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+cylinder+malossi+210+cc+_31163590

Mazz 60mm long stroke crank:
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/long+stroke+crankshaft+mazzu_45039000

MMW px200 head with 0.0mm squish (to compensate for raising the cylinder for the long stroke crank):
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+head+mmw+px200+for_13013935


Since I also need a completely new clutch as the old one was rusted beyond usable, I am wondering what is a good gearing setup for a p200 with 210 kit like this? I want this scoot to be a solid tourer and am not looking for crazy top speed, just the ability to hold 65 mph all day with lots of torque down low rpm.
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